Muslim Anti-Semitism and the Arab Spring

[boyntonstu]

Muslim Anti-Semitism and the Arab Spring

http://tinyurl.com/7brur28

Western columnists eager to bestow their blessing on the democratic impulses of the Arab Spring are troubled by its darker side, the bigotry, the sexual violence and religious fanaticism. Rather than admit that they may have gotten the Arab Spring wrong, they look at its dark side as an external factor, rather than an internal one.

Case in point, Jeffrey Goldberg's recitation of Anti-Semitism in the Arab Spring leads to the same baffled attempts to understand. "On the surface this makes no sense: Arabs are rising up against Arabs, so what does this have to do with the “Protocols of the Elders of Zion”?" he asks.....

I believe that the tiny population of Jews in the world, their success, and their wide dispersion, makes them 'perfect' scapegoats.

Edited by Loss Leader: 

Edited for clarity.

 

[Cleon]

Riiiight. It can't be that Arabs are tired of living under dictatorships. They just hate Jews.

 

[David Swidler]

I don't think it's so simple an issue as an internal vs. external factor. Antisemitism has been part and parcel of Arab culture for generations, inflamed by the state-controlled media to keep the populace focused on Israel instead of the state's own failings. It's only natural that many Arabs never considered alternative viewpoints, as they were simply never exposed to them.

I wouldn't characterize antisemitism as a specific characteristic of the Arab Spring - it's more a reflection of the culture from which the Spring springs.

 

[A'isha]

Yeah, the Arab Spring didn't happen because of the problem of rampant anti-Semitism in the Muslim world.

The Arab Spring happened, and there's a problem of rampant anti-Semitism in the Muslim world.

 

[Undesired Walrus]

Where is the evidence for this person's claims?

 

[Chaos]

Where is the evidence for this person's claims?

He made the claim. For a believer, that is more than enough evidence.

 

[Johny2x4]

Yeah, the Arab Spring didn't happen because of the problem of rampant anti-Semitism in the Muslim world.

The Arab Spring happened, and there's a problem of rampant anti-Semitism in the Muslim world.

Correct me if I am wrong, but ins´t the whole antisemitism issue from he old days back when a Jewish tribe betrayed/refused to help Mohamed? From what I read (granted it could be wrong) the issues were with that specific jewish tribe at the time and then somehow mutated with general hatred with the jews we see today.

It´s a stupid reason and a grudge to hold tho.

 

[A'isha]

Correct me if I am wrong, but ins´t the whole antisemitism issue from he old days back when a Jewish tribe betrayed/refused to help Mohamed? From what I read (granted it could be wrong) the issues were with that specific jewish tribe at the time and then somehow mutated with general hatred with the jews we see today.

You mean the Banu Qurayza and their purported betrayal of Muhammad at the Battle of the Trench.

Historically, it's probably more of a post-hoc justification, and in any case it's far enough back in history that it has as much to do with modern Muslim anti-Semitism as the Jews being blamed for the Crucifixion has to do with modern Christian anti-Semitism.

The more proximate reason for the current virulent anti-Semitism (as opposed to the constant, if low-level historical anti-Semitism) in the Muslim world is the conflict with Israel - hatred against Jews is stirred up as a way to stoke hatred of the state of Israel.

It´s a stupid reason and a grudge to hold tho.

Yes, it is.

 

[WildCat]

The more proximate reason for the current virulent anti-Semitism (as opposed to the constant, if low-level historical anti-Semitism) in the Muslim world is the conflict with Israel - hatred against Jews is stirred up as a way to stoke hatred of the state of Israel.

Do you have evidence that anti-semitism in the region was less prior to the ceation of Israel? I'm just not seeing it. There's a reason Jews were scattered all over the world. Israel is just the raison du jour.

 

[A'isha]

Do you have evidence that anti-semitism in the region was less prior to the ceation of Israel? I'm just not seeing it. There's a reason Jews were scattered all over the world. Israel is just the raison du jour.

Well, all the way up through the first few decades of the 20th century, there used to be quite a few sizable minority Jewish communities in Arab Muslim countries, many of which were thriving, vibrant, and successful (Egypt's especially).

In the 30's and 40's, though, that changed. Expulsions, property seizures, pogroms, repressive laws that did not exist before, all combined to basically destroy these Jewish communities.

Make no mistake - I'm not claiming that the Jews all lived happy, unmolested, and free lives in Arab Muslim countries. But the difference between the situation of Jews there prior to the 30's and the situation of Jews there now is stark and dramatic.

 

[WildCat]

In the 30's and 40's, though, that changed. Expulsions, property seizures, pogroms, repressive laws that did not exist before, all combined to basically destroy these Jewish communities.

Is there a century that didn't have such episodes?

 

[A'isha]

Is there a century that didn't have such episodes?

Yes, all those centuries where those sizable Jewish communities in, say, Egypt ans Syria weren't pretty much completely wiped out like they were in the middle of the 20th.

 

[WildCat]

Yes, all those centuries where those sizable Jewish communities in, say, Egypt ans Syria weren't pretty much completely wiped out like they were in the middle of the 20th.

Just so long as they didn't get uppity.

Jews have been kicked out of one country or another for pretty much the last 2,000 years. Just because they were tolerated in any one place and time is not evidence anti-semitism was held in check, because such things manifest themselves in other ways besides eviction and genocide. If that's the criteria there wasn't ever anti-black racism in the USA, since there was never an eviction or a genocide of them.

 

[A'isha]

I'm going to let my links speak for themselves. If you honestly can't see the difference between the way Jewish communities were treated before 1930, and the way they were treated after that, then I'm afraid I can't help you.

Sorry.

 

[WildCat]

I'm going to let my links speak for themselves. If you honestly can't see the difference between the way Jewish communities were treated before 1930, and the way they were treated after that, then I'm afraid I can't help you.

Sorry.

They were certainly treated worse after 1930, but that doesn't mean they were treated well prior.

Jews often fled a horrible country for one that wasn't so horrible, but that doesn't mean it was a good place for them. Not unlike North Koreans fleeing to China. And according to your own link the Jewish population of Egypt maxed out at 80,000 in the 1920s, which means they accounted for just .6% of the population, insignificant even for a minority group.

 

[David Swidler]

I'm not sure what their percentage of the entire population has to do with the issue, WildCat. In modern times, the only country that had Jews as a significant percentage of the land's population was pre-WWII Poland. The rule was tiny percentages; that says nothing about how they were treated.

 

[angrysoba]

Just so long as they didn't get uppity.

Jews have been kicked out of one country or another for pretty much the last 2,000 years. Just because they were tolerated in any one place and time is not evidence anti-semitism was held in check, because such things manifest themselves in other ways besides eviction and genocide. If that's the criteria there wasn't ever anti-black racism in the USA, since there was never an eviction or a genocide of them.

Wildcat,

ANTPogo is pointing out that there have been plenty of Jewish communities in the Middle East and North Africa some of which have been there for as long as those 2,000 years you speak of and some much longer than that. Not all periods were the same as they are now. As you doubtless know there were times when the Caliphates were places of refuge for Jews escaping persecution in such places as Spain.

In England, Edward I kicked out the Jews in the 13th Century and they were only allowed back into the country in the time of Cromwell. It still wasn't until the 19th Century that they were allowed to sit in the Houses of Parliament. Similar histories occurred throughout Europe, as well you know from history classes. In Russia murderous pogroms were frequent. While in parts of continental Europe Jews had to wear stars in the Middle Ages. France expelled all the Jews until the time of Napoleon. It was only in the late nineteenth century that things became "normal" for Jews in any parts of Europe and then suddenly... one of them got uppity. The Dreyfuss affair led to Theodore Herzl deciding that there was never going to be a place in which Jews can feel comfortable given that France was one of those places where assimilated Jews such as Dreyfuss were supposed to be free from the eternal taint of anti-semitic suspicion but the affair proved it was not going to happen.

This was when it was decided that moving to somewhere in the Middle East might be fairly conducive to good health as there was already a community of Jews - the yishuv - living there in relative peace.

Of course, this is where people such as Maimonides (the Rambam) had managed to rise to physician to the grand vizier of the Sultan, Saladin so there had been promising days. Of course, if you look at things from 21st Century Indenity-politics infused Western eyes you might be shocked to learn that women didn't have the vote in these backward primitive places in those days! If, on the other hand, you are remotely sensible and historically-minded you would know that comparitively-speaking Jewish communities did fairly well in some parts.

At this time there were also very large communities of Jews living in Baghdad, Cairo, Tripoli etc...

Following the establishment of Israel these communities were massively persecuted and driven out.

A few remnants clung on in some parts such as Yemen and elsewhere but now life in such places is almost unthinkable.

It is a night and day difference and it is really pointless trying to pretend 'twas ever thus.

 

[WildCat]

It is a night and day difference and it is really pointless trying to pretend 'twas ever thus.

I'm still not buying it.

The Damascus affair occurred in 1840, when an Italian monk and his servant disappeared in Damascus. Immediately following, a charge of ritual murder was brought against a large number of Jews in the city. All were found guilty. The consuls of England, France and Germany as well as Ottoman authorities, Christians, Muslims and Jews all played a great role in this affair.[14] Following the Damascus affair, Pogroms spread through the Middle East and North Africa. Pogroms occurred in: Aleppo (1850, 1875), Damascus (1840, 1848, 1890), Beirut (1862, 1874), Dayr al-Qamar (1847), Jerusalem (1847), Cairo (1844, 1890, 1901–02), Mansura (1877), Alexandria (1870, 1882, 1901–07), Port Said (1903, 1908), Damanhur (1871, 1873, 1877, 1891), Istanbul (1870, 1874), Buyukdere (1864), Kuzguncuk (1866), Eyub (1868), Edirne (1872), Izmir (1872, 1874).[15] There was a massacre of Jews in Baghdad in 1828.[12] There was another massacre in Barfurush in 1867.[12]

Egyptian cities hilited.

That's a long time before Israel was created.

 

[A'isha]

What part of "things weren't really great for Jews in those countries before 1930, but after 1930 things were far, far worse" are you having difficulty comprehending?

In Egypt, since we're apparently using that as our representative sample, twenty years after the last pogrom mentioned in your quote, there were more Jews in Egypt than ever before (nearly 100,000), and they formed a large, successful community. Today, seventy years after the Arab-Israeli conflict first sparked into open warfare (and sixty years after the expulsions), there are maybe 100 Jews left in the entire country, and if anything the situation will only get worse for them.

As angrysoba said, it's a night and day difference, and to equate them is akin to saying Jews in Poland in the 1940's didn't really have it any worse than Jews in Poland in, say, the 1880s, because there were always pogroms and massacres.

 

[WildCat]

What part of "things weren't really great for Jews in those countries before 1930, but after 1930 things were far, far worse" are you having difficulty comprehending?

Why do you think anti-semitism picked up during this time? You think it was Jewish migration to Palestine (which seems to be circular reasoning to me) but I would argue the worldwide depression was more to blame. The world needed a scapegoat, and the Jews were there to fill that role.

In Egypt, since we're apparently using that as our representative sample, twenty years after the last pogrom mentioned in your quote, there were more Jews in Egypt than ever before (nearly 100,000), and they formed a large, successful community. Today, seventy years after the Arab-Israeli conflict first sparked into open warfare (and sixty years after the expulsions), there are maybe 100 Jews left in the entire country, and if anything the situation will only get worse for them.

And they left because...? Too much love in Egypt?

As angrysoba said, it's a night and day difference, and to equate them is akin to saying Jews in Poland in the 1940's didn't really have it any worse than Jews in Poland in, say, the 1880s, because there were always pogroms and massacres.

There were outside forces causing the massacre of Jews in Poland in the 1940s, by contrast it was outside forces suppressing pogroms in Palestine and Egypt from WWI through WWII.