Illinois Teacher Pensions

[eeyore1954]

Funny how the rest of the world manages to have pensions for public employees and yet things don't descend into a horrifying dystopia.


Frankly I think if you taught in a school for 50 years you deserve some sort of pension.

Frankly I doubt if it is being suggested that someone works for 50 years and they don't get any type of pension.
I think at issue here is what sort of a pension?
I bet it is much more generous that what someone gets by paying into social security.

 

[WildCat]

Ten percent is actually MORE than investment advisors tell young people to sock away.

Not for the returns the public unions are expecting. Not even close. That's also assuming you're socking away 10% for 45 years or so.

 

[BenBurch]

The returns are in line with private pensions.

What is the problem you have with paying your bills?

 

[WildCat]

The returns are in line with private pensions.

"Private pensions"? Those died off decades ago in favor of 401(k) and other defined contribution plans. And the actual returns of private pensions were usually just 50-75% of what was promised. But at least 3rd parties (taxpayers) weren't on the hook for those when they went bust.

What is the problem you have with paying your bills?

You may as well ask an indigent person facing $500,000 in medical bills the same question.

The money isn't there and it's not going to be there. The question isn't if Illinois goes the way of Greece, but when.

 

[BenBurch]

We have the ability to pay pensions. The GOP simply does not want to.

 

[BenBurch]

Illinois public pensions are underfunded by around $45 billion. This works out to around $3500 per citizen. Add a $400 surcharge to everybody's income tax and we'll be fully-funded in around 13 years. I'd prefer we added a graduated tax just for pensions, though.

 

[Reginald Hobbes]

Illinois public pensions are underfunded by around $45 billion. This works out to around $3500 per citizen. Add a $400 surcharge to everybody's income tax and we'll be fully-funded in around 13 years. I'd prefer we added a graduated tax just for pensions, though.

Does that number mean you would tax children?

If you count adults 18-64 you get about $5600 per person.

If you go by households, it is about $9500 per household.

Numbers from here.

 

[Mike!]

It does not matter what else we do without.

We made our solemn word and we need to stick with it.

If the GOP does not stand for keeping the commitments we the People make, then it is even more pitiable than I supposed.

If we want new hires to be subject to different rules, that is ethical. It is not ethical to strip retirees who have given their lives to public service of the pensions they were offered and accepted in good faith.

That's not an answer to my question. And where does this "We" come in? I didn't promise anyone anything.

 

[Mike!]

So all the tax breaks that Il Duce extended to his corporate owners should be clawed back now, right?

This isn't an answer to it ether.

 

[sarge]

The state can not afford to pay the expected pensions....period.

Goverments regularly change benefit amounts and eligibility dates for goverment funded pensions. This should be no different.

 

[BenBurch]

Does that number mean you would tax children?

If you count adults 18-64 you get about $5600 per person.

If you go by households, it is about $9500 per household.

Numbers from here.

Fair enough. Not at all insurmountable. Remember we don't need all this money NOW - we need it when the draw happens.

 

[BenBurch]

That's not an answer to my question. And where does this "We" come in? I didn't promise anyone anything.

The answer is I couldn't even begin to care what you think you promised.

You are a citizen and you are obligated to meet the bills the people YOU elected ran up doing what YOU asked them to do.

If you don't like it, I hear that Arizona has a nice climate.

Please close the screen door on the way out.

 

[Mike!]

The answer is I couldn't even begin to care what you think you promised.

You are a citizen and you are obligated to meet the bills the people YOU elected ran up doing what YOU asked them to do.

If you don't like it, I hear that Arizona has a nice climate.

Please close the screen door on the way out.

That assumes I voted for them and they did what I wanted. Nether, for the most part, is true. Still no answer to the question.

 

[DavidJames]

That assumes I voted for them and they did what I wanted. Nether, for the most part, is true. Still no answer to the question.

Are you saying if you don't vote or if they didn't do what you want you can opt out of anything they do?

 

[WildCat]

Illinois public pensions are underfunded by around $45 billion. This works out to around $3500 per citizen. Add a $400 surcharge to everybody's income tax and we'll be fully-funded in around 13 years. I'd prefer we added a graduated tax just for pensions, though.

Where are you getting this number? The Illinois Civic Federation says $80 billion nearly 2 years ago, and they felt they were being conservative with that estimate, it could be closer to $100 billion. And you're including every man, woman, and child in the state. The total labor force in Illinois is 6.6 million, of which over 600,000 are unemployed. So even your wildly underestimated deficit puts every employed Illinoisan in the hole for $7,000.

Double that for the actual deficit, double it again to account for all the county and municipal pensions that are underfunded. We simply aren't going to raise $28,000 from every employed person in the state to close the gap.

 

[WildCat]

And btw, this is all public pensions in Illinois, not just teacher's pensions.

 

[WildCat]

If you don't like it, I hear that Arizona has a nice climate.

Please close the screen door on the way out.

If the state decides to extract $28K from every working person that will happen. Hell, we're already losing House seats to other states.

 

[WildCat]

Are you saying if you don't vote or if they didn't do what you want you can opt out of anything they do?

The problem with pensions is that the promises are made by people long ago, while the bill for their promises gets shoved down the road to future people (which is now the present) who not only can't afford it, but never even had the opportunity to hold those responsible accountable because they're long gone before we even reach voting age. The provision about pensions in the Constitution was put there when I was 5 years old.

 

[Mike!]

Are you saying if you don't vote or if they didn't do what you want you can opt out of anything they do?

Don't I wish! Doesn't mean I have to like it ether. And since the best option I've got right now is bitching on a message board, so be it!

 

[Mike!]

The problem with pensions is that the promises are made by people long ago, while the bill for their promises gets shoved down the road to future people (which is now the present) who not only can't afford it, but never even had the opportunity to hold those responsible accountable because they're long gone before we even reach voting age. The provision about pensions in the Constitution was put there when I was 5 years old.

Here here!