Has there ever been a Conspiracy Theory that was in fact true?

[kevsta]

Why is MKUltra not a conspiracy theory? Because it's true. Conspiracy theories are not. Yes, the distinction is really that simple.

so how does this work then? - I dont get it

some people think they spot something and talk about it. they get dismissed as conspiracy theorists and the subject is a conspiracy theory.

years later proof turns up, and and so it is suddenly now a conspiracy?

how then is every conspiracy theory not a (potential) conspiracy, just awaiting the proof?

 

[Stereolab]

Pool stores intentionally screw up your pool chemistry so you will need to give them more business in the future.

It's important to me, dammit.

 

[Sabretooth]

The Philadelphia Cheesesteak Experiment was a big deal for me. For a moment, there was this beautiful cheesesteak laid before me, and then it was gone in an instant. My mid-section was in knots for the rest of the day. Truly the work of a government conspiracy.

 

[Elizabeth I]

The Philadelphia Cheesesteak Experiment was a big deal for me. For a moment, there was this beautiful cheesesteak laid before me, and then it was gone in an instant. My mid-section was in knots for the rest of the day. Truly the work of a government conspiracy.

Mmm...with onions and peppers?

 

[Sabretooth]

Mmm...with onions and peppers?

You saw it, too!!!?!?!?!

 

[Travis]

Lots of conspiracy theories have turned out to be true.

MK-Ultra was one of the weirdest and most difficult to believe and turned out to be completely true.

Except it also completely didn't work. If they had ever encountered any success with it the outrage over it might have been louder.

Iran/Contra was a conspiracy theory until exposed.

And who was speculating on the "theory" prior to exposure?

the Dreyfuss affair

This might count though it was certainly minor.

the existence of the NSA (once mocked as a conspiracy theory)

I'm not familiar with that. But even when proven to exist it really means nothing.

the existence of the Echelon spy system (mocked as a conspiracy theory as well)

And a non-factor even though it is now known to exist.

the Gulf of Tonkin incident

Not a conspiracy in any way.

the burning of the Reichstag

Also not a conspiracy in any way.

JFK having a mistress that was also a mistress to a Mobster

Amusing, if true, but rather irrelevant.

the Indiana or whatever the name of it was (mentioned in Jaws)...only came to official light due to a boy working to expose the conspiracy

What element of the sinking of the Indianapolis by the Japanese was a conspiracy?

the level of recruitment of NAZI scientists after WWII

Secret, necessary and rather minor.

lots of covert ops are kept secret via disinformation designed to help them be dismissed as conspiracy theories

Such as?

testing of STDs on people of color

Nasty and repugnant. People can be douchebags. But minor and didn't involve anyone big in government.

forced sterilization

Done primarily out in the open though.

communist infiltration of the Hollywood and the State department

So McCarthy was right!

the coup against the Vietnamese leader (forget his name)

He was a bastard but coups happen rather a lot. What's special about this one?

 

[matt.tansy]

The Philadelphia Cheesesteak Experiment was a big deal for me. For a moment, there was this beautiful cheesesteak laid before me, and then it was gone in an instant. My mid-section was in knots for the rest of the day. Truly the work of a government conspiracy.

The Phily Cheesesteak is a massive conspiracy. For years Philadelphians told me the best Phily Cheesesteaks were made in Phily. The one I had there was bland, tasteless, and tough. How an entire city could falsely convince the world they made the best Phily Cheesesteaks must truly be a grand conspiracy.

 

[Patrick1000]

Sure there are, that one is EASY

In the recent past, has there ever been a Conspiracy Theory that when it was all said and done, it turned out to have been true, there was a conspiracy and it was exposed.

Of course there was Watergate but that only lasted a few weeks before the house of cards came down.

There was Monica-gate, but that was blown pretty quickly too... (sorry couldn't resist).

What else? When in the past 100 years has a deep dark secret been kept from the public to cover the activities of a select few in power?

I'm sure there are older examples but what about more recently, say in the last 40 years?

It has to be major, the US Government covering up a alien spaceship would qualify (if the truth has truly come out) but covering up a Cabinet Official's speeding tickets or extra marital affairs isn't really big enough.

My purpose in asking the question will be answered in a few days after there is some response (if there is any). I don't want to influence input.

NATO's stay at home armies killed innocent men women and children to create an atmosphere of tension in Europe . Framed the commies you know. The Italian Prime Minister stood in front of the entire world and sad, "Yes WE!, in effect, did kill all those people". No one has been able to deny that one....

 

[Scott Sommers]

I'm trying to understand just what this 'conspiracy theory' thing is supposed to be. I'd even settle for a clear understanding of some of the concepts it's related to.

A 'conspiracy theory' can be something that was covered up, but also something where there was no attempt to cover up. A conspiracy theory can be something that was kept secret by a big powerful group, like the US government. But it can also be something that was widely known and discussed by the kind of people you and I know.

The only thing I can figure out about what this term means is that it's got something to do with being reported on by large newspapers and TV news networks. If it doesn't get reported on, then it's a conspiracy theory. But then, that makes ALL technical information part of a conspiracy theory, and we know that's not true. That's why I say it seems to be only the stuff that some people find weird that gets labelled as a 'conspiracy theory'.

So for something to be a 'conspiracy theory', it has to be the sort of thing a news network would report on, but is not. And it has be kind of freaky, far-out sort of stuff that you smoke doobies and talk about.

 

[Patrick1000]

The Italian Prime Minister Himself Started The Ball Rolling When He Copped To "Gladio

In the recent past, has there ever been a Conspiracy Theory that when it was all said and done, it turned out to have been true, there was a conspiracy and it was exposed.

Of course there was Watergate but that only lasted a few weeks before the house of cards came down.

There was Monica-gate, but that was blown pretty quickly too... (sorry couldn't resist).

What else? When in the past 100 years has a deep dark secret been kept from the public to cover the activities of a select few in power?

I'm sure there are older examples but what about more recently, say in the last 40 years?

It has to be major, the US Government covering up a alien spaceship would qualify (if the truth has truly come out) but covering up a Cabinet Official's speeding tickets or extra marital affairs isn't really big enough.

My purpose in asking the question will be answered in a few days after there is some response (if there is any). I don't want to influence input.

The Italian Prime Minister Himself Started The Ball Rolling When He Copped To "Gladio".

If you are unfamiliar with the NATO SECRET ARMY atrocities, I would recommend your reading Daniele Ganser's, NATO'S SECRET ARMIES (CONTEMPORARY SECURITY STUDIES). Here is a little bit I lifted from the Amazon site on Ganser's highly regarded book;

"The CIA and the British secret service MI6, in collaboration with the military alliance NATO and European military secret services set up a network of clandestine anticommunist armies in Western Europe after World War II. The secret soldiers were trained on remote islands in the Mediterranean and in unorthodox warfare centers in England and in the United States by the Green Berets and SAS Special Forces. The network was armed with explosives, machine guns and high-tech communication equipment hidden in underground bunkers and secret arms caches in forests and mountain meadows. In some countries, the secret army linked up with right-wing terrorists who in a secret war engaged in political manipulation, harassment of left wing parties, massacres, coup d'etats and torture.

Codenamed "Gladio" ('the sword'), the Italian secret army was exposed in 1990 by Italian Prime Minister Giulio Andreotti to the Italian Senate, whereupon the press spoke of the "the best kept, and most damaging, political-military secret since World War II" (Observer, 18. November 1990) and observed that "The story seems straight from the pages of a political thriller." (The Times, November 19, 1990). Ever since, so-called 'stay-behind' armies of NATO have also been discovered in France, Spain, Portugal, Germany, Belgium, the Netherlands, Luxemburg, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Switzerland, Austria, Greece and Turkey. They were internationally coordinated by the Pentagon and NATO and had their last known meeting in the NATO-linked Allied Clandestine Committee (ACC) in Brussels in October 1990."

That description there is a watered down, sugar coated euphemism more or less. The principals named above murdered innocent people throughout Europe and staged the murders, bombings and so forth to implicate the communists. In this way, the Italians and pretty much everybody else in Europe would be more agreeable to more security and the so framed commies would be discredited.

Academics like Ganser refer to this as a "strategy of tension". Tension is created through terrorism, genuine 100% NATO backed and certified false flag terrorism.

What was/is unique about the NATO SECRET ARMY "CONSPIRACY" Greg is that the Italian Prime Minister, Giulio Andreotti, stood before the Italian Parliament and in a sense "confessed" such as one can try and massage this one and that one, not to mention the one where they murdered 85 people at the Bologna train station in 1980. It is VERY VERY VERY DISTURBING TO READ THIS STUFF. I advise extreme caution. YOU ARE LIABLE TO QUITE LITERALLY LOSE YOUR SENSE OF FAITH IN EVERYTHING.

Here is a link, but the stuff on Gladio and the other armies is all over the place. If you are really interested in a genuine "conspiracy" Greg, read Ganser's book, fantastic, and fantastically disturbing.


http://aangirfan.blogspot.com/2006/12/bologna-bomb-1980-gladio-terrorism-in.html

 

[LSSBB]

The Italian Prime Minister Himself Started The Ball Rolling When He Copped To "Gladio".

If you are unfamiliar with the NATO SECRET ARMY atrocities, I would recommend your reading Daniele Ganser's, NATO'S SECRET ARMIES (CONTEMPORARY SECURITY STUDIES). Here is a little bit I lifted from the Amazon site on Ganser's highly regarded book;

So which proud, tireless and intrepid CT hero (or heroes) can claim credit for saying these so called CTs existed, long before they were exposed?

 

[Childlike Empress]

Well, there's the son of Siegfried Buback who was murdered by the Red Army Fraction in Germany, of which at least the so-called "third generation" was long rumoured (CTized) to be part of GLADIO. His research has re-opened the case and we can already say that there is something to hide. We'll see how it turns out.

 

[Childlike Empress]

So which proud, tireless and intrepid CT hero (or heroes) can claim credit for saying these so called CTs existed, long before they were exposed?

Cs, not CTs.

 

[Patrick1000]

The Courageous Italian Judge Felice Casson Was Responsible......

So which proud, tireless and intrepid CT hero (or heroes) can claim credit for saying these so called CTs existed, long before they were exposed?

The Courageous Italian Judge Felice Casson Was Responsible for the uncovering of "Gladio", the Italian Secret Army. Once Casson got the goods on those naughty naughty naughty little boys, then the Italian Prime Minister, Giulio Andreotti had to say something, confess in a sense. French President Francois Mitterrand back peddled furiously, but to no avail. He claimed, "When I arrived, I didn't have much left to dissolve. There only remained a few remnants, of which I learned the existence with some surprise because everyone had forgotten about them." To his credit, Andriotti called Mitterrand a coward in so many words for not being man enough if not to admit to his own complicity, which Mitterrand was, COMPLICITOUS, to at least to acknowledge the French Secret Army's robust activities. It all fell like a house of cards after that, and things lead right to our front door. After all, when it comes to NATO, we, the Americans, are the big Cheetos, ain't we?


So if you want a name LSSBB, there really is only one, the Great Italian judge, Felice Casson. The only guy both smart and brave enough to pull it off, expose the thing. Mind boggling really, one dude vs NATO! Incredibile!!!

I am an American citizen, 2nd generation, but ethnically and culturally Sicilian to some degree. I have many friends and a large family in Sicily. My friends and family revere Casson, as do many Italians, more for his courage than anything else. He is like Giovanni Falcone, the magistrate from Palermo who was so successful in prosecuting Mafia guys in the Maxi Trials, and got blown up for it along with his family. People love these guys, admire their courage.

One little Italian judge, showed NATO where they could stick it, right up their chicken _ _ _ _ butts. BEAUTIFUL!!!! BRAVO CASSON, BRAVO!!!!!!!

So there Greg, the NATO SECRET ARMY CONSPIRACY, a conspiracy that endured from 1945 through 1990, 45 years, with activities that included the murdering of innocent people, including children, to create fear in the hearts of Europeans so US military interests could park nukes in the Europeans' front yards. Pretty sick, ain't it?

And if you have any question, wondering if it really could be true, that heinously sick, it sounds so awful after all, don't hesitate to ask the Prime Minister of Italy, Andreotti. He'll confirm every atrocity for you, not to mention the President of France, Mitterrand, who said sure it went on, but he was late to the party so he won't be able to give you much in the way of details Greg..........

 

[Elizabeth I]

You saw it, too!!!?!?!?!

...ssshh...I'm tracking it down...

 

[Patrick1000]

Of course one man's conspiracy is another man's reasonable......

In the recent past, has there ever been a Conspiracy Theory that when it was all said and done, it turned out to have been true, there was a conspiracy and it was exposed.

Of course there was Watergate but that only lasted a few weeks before the house of cards came down.

There was Monica-gate, but that was blown pretty quickly too... (sorry couldn't resist).

What else? When in the past 100 years has a deep dark secret been kept from the public to cover the activities of a select few in power?

I'm sure there are older examples but what about more recently, say in the last 40 years?

It has to be major, the US Government covering up a alien spaceship would qualify (if the truth has truly come out) but covering up a Cabinet Official's speeding tickets or extra marital affairs isn't really big enough.

My purpose in asking the question will be answered in a few days after there is some response (if there is any). I don't want to influence input.

Of course one man's conspiracy is another man's reasonable political and economic maneuver, but the cigarette thing is pretty ridiculous. Dontcha' think so Greg?.......

The stats are beyond grim;


1) Around 5.4 million deaths a year are caused by tobacco.

2) Smoking is set to kill 6.5 million people in 2015 and 8.3 million humans in 2030, with the biggest rise in low-and middle-income countries.

3) Every 6.5 seconds a current or former smoker dies, according to the World Health Organization (WHO).

4) An estimated 1.3 billion people are smokers worldwide (WHO).

5) Over 443,000 Americans (over 18 percent of all deaths) die because of smoking each year. Secondhand smoke kills about 50,000 of them.

6) 1.2 million people in China die because of smoking each year. That's 2,000 people a day.

7) Tobacco use will kill 1 billion people in the 21st century if current smoking trends continue.

8) 33 percent to 50 percent of all smokers are killed by their habit.

9) Smokers die on average 15 years sooner than nonsmokers.

Sometimes the conspirators don't congregate and plot in smoked filled rooms, rather, they simply pretend nothing is going on. Some are so stupid like the members of the US Congress/US Senate. They did/do not even realize their actions, in this case subsidizing the tobacco industry, resulted in so many American deaths.

And those poor poor poor farmers, needing all that subsidizing, and then the buyout to boot(buyout occurred in 2004), growing cyanide as it were, and here we didn't know cigarettes were deadly until the 1950s. That's not much warning now is it?

Now how many Americans was it that died in the Civil War? 625,000.... somptin' like that. WWI 117,000, WWII 400,000, Korea 36,000 Vietnam 58,000......Total American deaths due to war since 1775 2,500,000.

So let's see there, 400,000 cigarette related deaths in the US a year, so every six years roughly stoggies kill as many Americans as all US wars combined did. Every three years stoggies killed as many Americans as did the Civil War, WWI, WWII, the Korean War, the war in Vietnam. Pretty dang good population control on the part of the US senate wouldn't ya' say?

Yeah, it did start to get pretty dang obvious, the "murder pays" MO as it related to cigarettes, so eventually taking the show on the road did make eminent sense......


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/tobacco/stories/asia.htm

Maybe we outta' seal up the windows and doors of the Capitol building during a joint sessions and pump it full of tobacco smoke and not open the front door 'til Nancy Peolsi has coughed her face into an expression that at least approximates that of a real person.....

 

[Scott Sommers]

To be honest, I was quite shocked when I first learned about Operation Gladio. I can't say I had trouble believing it, but that it could be connected to people who were involved in a legitimate government was very troubling. I haven't thought it for a while, but your post prompted me to ask myself...what exactly it is about Operation Gladio that is so upsetting?

It is not that a government kills citizens and then some members lie about their knowledge of what happened. That happens all the time.

It is not even a shock at the number of people who were murdered. In fact, the number of people whose deaths can be connected to Gladio is really quite small in an international perspective.

In 1947, security forces from the KMT government in mainland China systematically murdered about 20,000 Taiwanese in an event that is now referred to as the 2.28 Incident. Following this and until very recently, talking about 2.28 in public could have gotten you executed. The current KMT president of Taiwan, Ma Ying-Jeou, still refuses to take responsibility for the event, although this is a vast improvement over the previous official position on the killings.

So anyway, what is it that we all find so shocking about Operation Gladio? It's all the White people that were killed. I have trouble imaging such shock if I told you that the Chinese government had killed 80 people and hidden the evidence. If I told you the Ugandan government has done this, my guess is you'd shrug it off as something explicable by the fact that they're Africans.

Italy is full of people that we now accept as White. It is our allie. It is supposed to be a pretty rich place. Many of us have even been there and still feel it's close to us and should be like us. I guess in some ways it's not. I guess these are probably ways in which all or most of Europe differs from us (or at least you guys) here in the USA.

Was there a conspiracy to keep to keep facts secret? I guess I'd have to say yes. Just as there was a conspiracy to kill James I, suppress the results of The Ultimate Fighter season results, and hide some of the real facts about Area 51, Operation Gladio would have also been a conspiracy.

Do I think it is a 'conspiracy theory' for the government to murder people for political reasons and then hide the evidence? Not at all. And you wouldn't either if we were talking about one of those countries you think of as poor, dirty, and brown.

 

[Patrick1000]

Your points are good.......

To be honest, I was quite shocked when I first learned about Operation Gladio. I can't say I had trouble believing it, but that it could be connected to people who were involved in a legitimate government was very troubling. I haven't thought it for a while, but your post prompted me to ask myself...what exactly it is about Operation Gladio that is so upsetting?

It is not that a government kills citizens and then some members lie about their knowledge of what happened. That happens all the time.

It is not even a shock at the number of people who were murdered. In fact, the number of people whose deaths can be connected to Gladio is really quite small in an international perspective.

In 1947, security forces from the KMT government in mainland China systematically murdered about 20,000 Taiwanese in an event that is now referred to as the 2.28 Incident. Following this and until very recently, talking about 2.28 in public could have gotten you executed. The current KMT president of Taiwan, Ma Ying-Jeou, still refuses to take responsibility for the event, although this is a vast improvement over the previous official position on the killings.

So anyway, what is it that we all find so shocking about Operation Gladio? It's all the White people that were killed. I have trouble imaging such shock if I told you that the Chinese government had killed 80 people and hidden the evidence. If I told you the Ugandan government has done this, my guess is you'd shrug it off as something explicable by the fact that they're Africans.

Italy is full of people that we now accept as White. It is our allie. It is supposed to be a pretty rich place. Many of us have even been there and still feel it's close to us and should be like us. I guess in some ways it's not. I guess these are probably ways in which all or most of Europe differs from us (or at least you guys) here in the USA.

Was there a conspiracy to keep to keep facts secret? I guess I'd have to say yes. Just as there was a conspiracy to kill James I, suppress the results of The Ultimate Fighter season results, and hide some of the real facts about Area 51, Operation Gladio would have also been a conspiracy.

Do I think it is a 'conspiracy theory' for the government to murder people for political reasons and then hide the evidence? Not at all. And you wouldn't either if we were talking about one of those countries you think of as poor, dirty, and brown.

Your points are good......though I would suggest much went on that we do not know of in terms of NATO sponsored murder of innocent European civilians and the framing of law abiding communists.

I am very disturbed by what goes on in "non white countries". Here in San Francisco we are quite non white as a group. That said, your point is OUTSTANDING about the selectiveness of outrage. Great post!!!!!

 

[Eddie Dane]

Your points are good......though I would suggest much went on that we do not know of in terms of NATO sponsored murder of innocent European civilians and the framing of law abiding communists.

I am very disturbed by what goes on in "non white countries". Here in San Francisco we are quite non white as a group. That said, your point is OUTSTANDING about the selectiveness of outrage. Great post!!!!!

That selective outrage is simply a psychological mechanism.

As they used to say in journalism school: to determine the importance of a story, divide the distance through the number of casualties.

We feel stronger about people who are geographically closer. Or more accurately, more like us.

 

[kevsta]

That selective outrage is simply a psychological mechanism.

As they used to say in journalism school: to determine the importance of a story, divide the distance through the number of casualties.

We feel stronger about people who are geographically closer. Or more accurately, more like us.

++ although this behavior is clearly evident all the time I have never heard it expressed before, thanks.