Nuclear (i.e. fission and fusion) mythologies and politics

[Craig4]

One theory is that they first evacuated the people in those cities and then they poured gasoline all over the places and set it on fire.

Why do that when the US went to the trouble and expense to build atomic bombs?

 

[Anders Lindman]

Why do that when the US went to the trouble and expense to build atomic bombs?

I suspect that the top leaders knew that building an atom bomb was an impossible project from the start. So the Manhattan Project was just a charade to fool the people. Remember how 'miraculously' the Manhattan Project just 'happened' to be completed just in time before the war was totally over.

 

[Craig4]

You do realize, at least at some level that nuclear weapons do exist and are possessed by several countries right?

 

[Anders Lindman]

You do realize, at least at some level that nuclear weapons do exist and are possessed by several countries right?

I think most people would question the validity of that claim: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wKpo3UiBr0 Wouldn't you?

 

[Johny2x4]

I think most people would question the validity of that claim: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wKpo3UiBr0 Wouldn't you?

No, because Craig is sane.

 

[Uzzy]

I suspect that the top leaders knew that building an atom bomb was an impossible project from the start. So the Manhattan Project was just a charade to fool the people. Remember how 'miraculously' the Manhattan Project just 'happened' to be completed just in time before the war was totally over.

Of course, most sensible people would note that the Manhattan Project helped to rapidly accelerate the end of the war.

So anyway, Anders, am I to take it that you think Hiroshima and Nagasaki were destroyed not by Nuclear Bombs or even Firebombing, but by the Japanese government burning it to the ground? Could you clarify that position and be specific?

 

[Robrob]

I suspect that the top leaders knew that building an atom bomb was an impossible project from the start. So the Manhattan Project was just a charade to fool the people. Remember how 'miraculously' the Manhattan Project just 'happened' to be completed just in time before the war was totally over.

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Remember how 'miraculously' the Manhattan Project just 'happened' to be completed just in time before the war was totally over.

About as miraculous as finding your car keys just before you stop looking for them...

 

[Anders Lindman]

Of course, most sensible people would note that the Manhattan Project helped to rapidly accelerate the end of the war.

So anyway, Anders, am I to take it that you think Hiroshima and Nagasaki were destroyed not by Nuclear Bombs or even Firebombing, but by the Japanese government burning it to the ground? Could you clarify that position and be specific?

No, the war was basically already over before the alleged atom bombs were used. That's at least what some experts say. I haven't researched what could have caused Hiroshima and Nagasaki to burn down except that one expert said that someone described the damage over Hiroshima as looking exactly like the damage over Tokyo when flying over those cities just after the war.

 

[Uzzy]

No, the war was basically already over before the alleged atom bombs were used. That's at least what some experts say. I haven't researched what could have caused Hiroshima and Nagasaki to burn down except that one expert said that someone described the damage over Hiroshima as looking exactly like the damage over Tokyo when flying over those cities just after the war.

So, basically you know as much about the surrender of Japan at the end of WW2 as you do about nuclear power. Wonderful.

What's your education level, Anders? Have you any relevant qualifications, taken any classes in basic history or even read a book lately?

 

[Anders Lindman]

About as miraculous as finding your car keys just before you stop looking for them...

No, the war was already practically won before the atom bombs were used. So the timing of the completion of the project is suspiciously timed.

 

[Anders Lindman]

So, basically you know as much about the surrender of Japan at the end of WW2 as you do about nuclear power. Wonderful.

What's your education level, Anders? Have you any relevant qualifications, taken any classes in basic history or even read a book lately?

I have heard that it's debated even among experts if the atom bombs really made the war end or if they just made it end a bit sooner, because according to some experts the war was already won in a practical sense even before the atom bombs were used.

 

[Uzzy]

I have heard that it's debated even among experts if the atom bombs really made the war end or if they just made it end a bit sooner, because according to some experts the war was already won in a practical sense even before the atom bombs were used.

Ok, I'm going to give you the slightest benefit of the doubt here, as one should always assume idiocy rather then maliciousness.

Yes, the war was already practically won. But one nation didn't quite realise that. That nation was Japan. Her navies were sunk, her merchant fleets destroyed, her empire in ruins and her home islands about to be invaded. Yet, Japan didn't surrender. Japan didn't surrender after Hiroshima. Japan didn't surrender after Nagasaki and the Soviet invasion of Manchuria. It took a direct intervention from the Emperor himself to get the military government to surrender, and even then there was a coup attempt to stop the surrender being broadcast.

Japan was more then willing to fight on, with apocalyptic consequences for the allies and for Japan herself.

You can read quite easily about this, at a variety of sources. The wiki page is good starting point, though as always, I'd suggest going and finding the books that are linked in the sources. If you're unwilling to buy them, go to your local library.

We can help you become educated on these matters. There are experts in these fields here on JREF. But you have to want to be educated, alright?

 

[Robrob]

No, the war was already practically won before the atom bombs were used. So the timing of the completion of the project is suspiciously timed.

I guess the whole "finding your car keys" thing went over your head?

No, the war was basically already over before the alleged atom bombs were used. That's at least what some experts say. I haven't researched what could have caused Hiroshima and Nagasaki to burn down except that one expert said that someone described the damage over Hiroshima as looking exactly like the damage over Tokyo when flying over those cities just after the war.

So you have no idea but you once heard some guy describe another guy saying one destroyed Japanese city looked like another destroyed Japanese city?

You do know most Japanese buildings were made of wood back then, right?

I have heard that it's debated even among experts if the atom bombs really made the war end or if they just made it end a bit sooner, because according to some experts the war was already won in a practical sense even before the atom bombs were used.

1) There is debate if the war would have ended even without the bombs being used.

2) The war ended after the bombs were used.

From this you get the bombs didn't exist?

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Truth doesn't need proof.

Yes it does.

Show us the proof or admit you lied.

 

[Craig4]

No, the war was basically already over before the alleged atom bombs were used. That's at least what some experts say. I haven't researched what could have caused Hiroshima and Nagasaki to burn down except that one expert said that someone described the damage over Hiroshima as looking exactly like the damage over Tokyo when flying over those cities just after the war.

You are not correct. The war was not over. The Allies were faced with the prospect of invading Japan, which would have been costly for all parties. It was the dropping of the atomic bombs that caused the end of the war.

 

[Anders Lindman]

Yes, the war was already practically won. But one nation didn't quite realise that. That nation was Japan.

I have to stop reading right there. That may be true that the Japanese citizens didn't realize that. Don't mix up the citizens with the Japanese government, and read my explanation from post #419:

Why did the Japanese government cooperate with the U.S. government to fake the two atom bomb explosions? The Japanese government knew at that time that the war was in practice already lost and instead of Kamikazing themselves into oblivion and have the Soviet Union taking over half their country the deal with the U.S. government gave them an excuse to tell the Japanese citizens that they must surrender and in this way they could avoid a messy ending and save face.

 

[Anders Lindman]

I guess the whole "finding your car keys" thing went over your head?



So you have no idea but you once heard some guy describe another guy saying one destroyed Japanese city looked like another destroyed Japanese city?

You do know most Japanese buildings were made of wood back then, right?



1) There is debate if the war would have ended even without the bombs being used.

2) The war ended after the bombs were used.

From this you get the bombs didn't exist?

The finding the car keys analogy breaks down when examining it a bit closer. Let me explain by modifying the analogy to match the Manhattan Project: Imagine that you have an important meeting to go to and you need to find your car keys within half an hour and that you indeed happen to find them after 29 minutes. Do you see the difference?

Since many buildings were made of wood, it means that it would be easier for the Japanese government to burn down those cities.

Did the war end BECAUSE of the atom bombs? I have heard that many experts say no to that.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

I have to stop reading right there. That may be true that the Japanese citizens didn't realize that. Don't mix up the citizens with the Japanese government, and read my explanation from post #419:

Why did the Japanese government cooperate with the U.S. government to fake the two atom bomb explosions? The Japanese government knew at that time that the war was in practice already lost and instead of Kamikazing themselves into oblivion and have the Soviet Union taking over half their country the deal with the U.S. government gave them an excuse to tell the Japanese citizens that they must surrender and in this way they could avoid a messy ending and save face.

You need to stop making @#$% up and start providing proof of your claims.

 

[Anders Lindman]

You are not correct. The war was not over. The Allies were faced with the prospect of invading Japan, which would have been costly for all parties. It was the dropping of the atomic bombs that caused the end of the war.

That's similar to what I replied to in post #457.