Occupy Wall Street better defend its identity

[Drs_Res]

It's funny because BooKitty says the movement is about piecemeal legal reforms and Bikerdruid says it's a revolution and you'll be murdered if you get in their way.

Which one is it?

We won't know until there is a general assembly meeting where the issue goes to stack... or something.

 

[Robrob]

Drop in the ocean compared to what the Communists did.

So your point is capitalist genocide isn't as bad as communist genocide?

 

[Clayton Moore]

The sorry bastard who introduced the senate bill which ultimately let the banksters run wild and start creating investment instruments out of total crap was not a Jew. He was an arrongant WASP from Texas. He introduced the bill at a time when Grover's punks controlled both houses of congress, and America has been paying for it ever since, while he and his wife live high on the hog from the bribes that the least ethical of the banksters paid for her lobbying efforts.

POTUS was an arrogant wasp whatever under the thumb of neocons for eight years.

 

[carlitos]

The sorry bastard who introduced the senate bill which ultimately let the banksters run wild and start creating investment instruments out of total crap was not a Jew. He was an arrongant WASP from Texas. He introduced the bill at a time when Grover's punks controlled both houses of congress, and America has been paying for it ever since, while he and his wife live high on the hog from the bribes that the least ethical of the banksters paid for her lobbying efforts.

POTUS was an arrogant wasp whatever under the thumb of neocons for eight years.

The above is what I meant by far left / far right convergence.

 

[bikerdruid]

I'm going to have to declare shenanigans. Mom & Pop stores cannot come close to offering the security, flexibility, benefits, or opportunity for advancement that a corporation can. That's almost by definition.

Mom & Pop stores also have a pretty handy way of getting more out of your hourly wage by, for example, having you help out with inventory counts or doing unpaid overtime.

How on earth did you manage a pension from those people?

my pension comes from 25 years of teaching.
however, while i worked there, i was paid well with good benefits, perks and bonuses.

 

[WildCat]

my pension comes from 25 years of teaching.
however, while i worked there, i was paid well with good benefits, perks and bonuses.

And it all comes from money generated by capitalism.

 

[Democracy Simulator]

I hadn't seen that. Could you point to examples?

Yes. Post #34:

http://www.internationalskeptics.co...t=122003&highlight=fractional+reserve+banking

I'm sure if you scoured the Economics, Business and Finance forum you could find some more.

 

[Drs_Res]

Mayor Announces Occupy LA Eviction

Demonstrators have a 72-hour window to leave City Hall Park.

Occupying Angelenos have until Monday at 12:01 a.m. to pack up their tents and take down the signs that have decorated City Hall Park for the past 56 days.

Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa and LAPD Chief Charlie Beck announced the closure of City Hall Park, the current location of Occupy LA’s encampment, Friday during a press conference.

"We are asking the participants in the Occupy LA encampment to begin to pack their belongings and to leave City Hall Park in an orderly manner," said Villaraigosa.

Officers will begin walking through the encampment with information regarding the park closure as a part of the multi-step closure process. Social workers, nearby parking and a set amount of shelter beds will be made available to occupiers as well.

In honor of the spirit of free expression, the mayor said City Hall's historic Spring Street steps, which had become the gathering place for demonstrators’ free speech forums, will remain open during the park's cleaning.

Full story and videos at this link: http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/134511708.html

 

[bikerdruid]

And it all comes from money generated by capitalism.

such is the system we live under, for better or worse.
it has become decrepit and is about to collapse.

 

[Virus]

such is the system we live under, for better or worse.

Better.

 

[JihadJane]

I think anyone fool enough to pepper-spray a cop is going to deserve what they get.

What, to your mind, would be a proportionate response to a pepper spray "misting"?

I'll do as I please.

Go to your room, Noah!

I have not. You find them vague simply so you can attempt to prove how wonderfully superior you are. I'm not stupid.

(Pretending to able to read minds is stupid.)

Here are some examples:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=7777882#post7777882
(Vague, generalizing assertions and opinions)

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=7780820#post7780820
(Vague, generalizing assertion, opinions)

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=7780890#post7780890
(Vague, generalizing assertion, opinions)

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=7783488#post7783488
(Vague, generalizing assertion, opinions, "mind reading")

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=7783971#post7783971
(Vague, generalizing assertion, opinion.)

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=7784260#post7784260
(Vague, generalizing assertions, opinions.)

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=7785000#post7785000
(Opinion posing as fact.)

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=7786187#post7786187
(Generalizing assertion, opinion.)

I am not avoiding it. I've answered it many times. If you can't translate it, that's not my problem. Not surprisingly you seem to be the only one with the inability to do so.

I must have missed it. Maybe other posters will help me:

GENERAL APPEAL TO ALL POSTERS: Do you know what NoahFence finds idiotic about Lt John Pike's actions?

??

Again with the translation.

Please translate. What about my statement do you disagree with?

Okee doke.

So it's not known how they'd react, but it is known that they'd use live ammo.

How's that work, exactly? Ah, I get it. It gives you a chance to say "see, I'm right" no matter the outcome. Well played.

Mind-reading fail.

We don't know precisely how the US State would react to wide-spread revolution but we know the US state has used live ammunition against non-violent, unarmed protestors in the past, therefore it would be foolish to predict, as you have done, that they won't use live ammunition against non-violent, unarmed protestors in the future.

I have no idea what you're even doing there. Your response has nothing to do with the text you're responding to. Try reading.

Sorry, I thought you were talking about pepper spray.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

'Woman pepper sprays other Black Friday shoppers':

"LOS ANGELES — A woman trying to improve her chance to buy cheap electronics at a Walmart in a wealthy suburb spewed pepper spray on a crowd of shoppers and 20 people suffered minor injuries, police said Friday.

The attack took place about 10:20 p.m. Thursday shortly after doors opened for the sale at the Walmart in Porter Ranch in the San Fernando Valley.

The store had brought out a crate of discounted Xbox video game players, and a crowd had formed to wait for the unwrapping, when the woman began spraying people "in order to get an advantage," police Sgt. Jose Valle said.

...

It was the only major violence reported at a Southern California store involving Black Friday Thanksgiving holiday sales."

No police action, of course, against people obstructing the sidewalks with their tents...

 

[IDB87]

No police action, of course, against people obstructing the sidewalks with their tents...

Lol.

Really?

 

[000063]

It's interesting to see the far left adopting the same language as the anti-Semitic, paranoid far-right.

See guys! You're not so different after all!

We won't know until there is a general assembly meeting where the issue goes to stack... or something.

You know about those government sessions in the South Korea or somewhere that devolve into fights and shoe-throwing?

I get the feeling any attempt at actually solving problems by Occupy would end up like that.

We don't know precisely how the US State would react to wide-spread revolution but we know the US state has used live ammunition against non-violent, unarmed protestors in the past, therefore it would be foolish to predict, as you have done, that they won't use live ammunition against non-violent, unarmed protestors in the future.

The US government also allowed slavery once.

Your argument is invalid.

 

[JihadJane]

The US government also allowed slavery once.

Your argument is invalid.

No it's not. The internal US security state has expanded massively since May 4, 1970, whereas unpaid slavery is much reduced since it was officially abolished December 6, 1865.

 

[leftysergeant]

And it all comes from money generated by capitalism.

So? Capital does not create itself, thus does not, in itself, create wealth.

 

[JihadJane]

So? Capital does not create itself, thus does not, in itself, create wealth.

Capitalist wealth (accumulation) is mostly the result of previous violence, plunder, slavery, robbery, extortion and theft. It sees the world through rose-tinted spectacle by ignoring externalities, such as the environmental, social and health costs of it "wealth" creation activities.

Thus, by capitalist logic, destroying a forest is an act of wealth creation.

 

[000063]

Not necessarily. Sometimes it's just a forest fire.

 

[000063]

No it's not. The internal US security state has expanded massively since May 4, 1970,

You mean there are more cops since the 70s? There are tens of millions more people than there were in 1970, of course there are more cops. I'm not sure if you're trying to draw a correlation between the Kent State Shootings and more cops, but police have been given more and more less-lethal enforcement tools, due to increased transparency and scrutiny. It wasn't too long ago that John Pike would've had to physically struggle to remove those protestors along with the help of fellow officers, which generally causes more injury than pepper spray does. And no, there is a recourse for use of pepper spray on people who are not active threats. No one bats an eye when a "nonthreatening" drunk is pepper sprayed, but when "nonthreatening" protestors are, it's suddenly an outrage.

I find that the Occupy-sympathetic coverage of the event leaves out the fact that Pike did, in fact, ask the protestors to move, warn them of the consequences, and try to get them to let go gently. In fact, most of the OWS-sympathetic accounts of these clashes with police leave out vital facts, such as the fact that protestors were throwing tear gas back at cops when Scott Olsen was injured, which means it might not even have been the cops' fault, especially since no one is even sure what hit him. And I've pointed this out to people only to say that the public has the right to self-defense. Assaulting a peace officer is not self-defense.

And then there's the misrepresentation of what Megyn Kelly said, which is basically when I threw up my hands and went "all right, screw this. Screw Gawker, screw OWS, screw everyone." There is something infuriating about people going "She shouldn't say people should be pepper sprayed for expressing their freedom of speech! Someone should pepper spray her for saying that!" and no one else points out the hypocrisy.

whereas unpaid slavery is much reduced since it was officially abolished December 6, 1865.

The date the 13th Amendment was passed. I'm not sure why you're using dates instead of naming the specific events. Maybe you like to jerk people around, like that time Ergo wanted a full thesis statement before he'd accept a 2-digit number.

I'm not sure how one can be a paid slave, unless the term is being used metaphorically. I'm also not sure you're operating under the same dictionary most people are. But then again, you're a Truther.

 

[Clayton Moore]

No it's not. The internal US security state has expanded massively since May 4, 1970, whereas unpaid slavery is much reduced since it was officially abolished December 6, 1865.

Underpaid slavery is making a comeback. It seems all families are destined to have a Tiny Tim to crutch for. An in sight that should be recognized as the Christmas Holiday approaches.

 

[Virus]

Capitalist wealth (accumulation) is mostly the result of previous violence, plunder, slavery, robbery, extortion and theft. It sees the world through rose-tinted spectacle by ignoring externalities, such as the environmental, social and health costs of it "wealth" creation activities.

Thus, by capitalist logic, destroying a forest is an act of wealth creation.

If wealth can only be created by violence, plunder, slavery, robbery, extortion and theft does that mean in your ideal society everyone is poor?