Vaccines: how do I talk to my anti-vac wife about it?

[Capsid]

Makes me wonder why I'm concerned. These procedures didn't help much when Baxters sent out vaccine samples containing live H5N1 bird flu viruses.



Still, everybody's allowed at least one little mistake!!!

Is there a better link than the one you gave, ie the real source. It is possible that Baxter were sending out the virus seed stocks for testing rather than the vaccine and this may have been misunderstood.

 

[Deetee]

Is there a better link than the one you gave, ie the real source. It is possible that Baxter were sending out the virus seed stocks for testing rather than the vaccine and this may have been misunderstood.

It wasn't vaccine samples, it was samples of live H3N2 virus that was sent to their central lab I recall. This was contaminated with H1N1, so was recalled.

 

[Tatyana]

CO2
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/CO2

CO2
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/CO2
Quote:
n. 1. the chemical formula for carbon dioxide, a heavy odorless gas (CO2) formed during respiration and by the combustion or decomposition of organic substances; it is absorbed from the air by plants in photosynthesis. The formula itself, pronounced out, is often used instead of the full name, especially with reference to fire extinguishers using this gas for fire suppression; as, a CO2 extinguisher.

Respiration/breathing in and out, is not where CO2 is formed, which is what you think as you mention the 'respiratory system'.

Respiration means cellular respiration or aerobic respiration.

Your dictionary definition tells me you are even more of a scientific cretin than I previously thought.

Here is the correct answer cretin.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Respiration_(physiology)

In physiology, respiration (often mistaken with breathing) is defined as the transport of oxygen from the outside air to the cells within tissues, and the transport of carbon dioxide in the opposite direction. This is in contrast to the biochemical definition of respiration, which refers to cellular respiration: the metabolic process by which an organism obtains energy by reacting oxygen with glucose to give water, carbon dioxide and ATP (energy).

 

[Tatyana]

No thanks. You brought it up so perhaps you can enlighten me. Perhaps they should just give their clients pure H₂O? (or is that bad for you as well?)

Yes, that would make it worse, as pure water/chemically pure water, would be de-ionised water.

Deionised water, and to a lesser extent, distilled water, removes the dissolved metal ions like sodium from water.

The composition of the 'water' in your body, or plasma/extracellular fluid, is approximately 140 mmol/L of sodium (and around 4 mmol/L potassium).

If you introduce chemically pure water into your body, osmosis would occur, and for a balance of sodium ions to occur, water would be ripped out of the extracelluar fluid initially, then the intracelluar fluids, fluids, causing dehydration.

If you make someone drink 'pure water' for any length of time, besides dehydration, you will also cause an electrolyte imbalance, which could cause a cardiac arrest.



I would stop using the smiley faces.

 

[Giordano]

That's like saying people, lets say 40%, who are likely to be able run 5 miles test the safety of running shoes then requiring by law everyone to run 5 miles.



http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00046738.htm


That has nothing to do with determining whether a baby/toddler suffered a reaction.

No, it's like asking people without blisters on their feet to run 5 miles to test if a brand of running shoes causes blisters, rather than asking a mix of people with and without blisters on their feet to run 5 miles to test if a brand of running shoes causes blisters.

The website is a long, detailed list of possible side effects and adverse reactions that have been reported for different vaccines, with the relevant statistics, possible contraindications, etc, noted. Are you asking how can a medical doctor tell if a baby/toddler suffered one of these reactions? Given most of the reactions listed are things like fever, rash, and pain, I dare say 4 years of medical school, a year of internship, and 2 years of residency should prove adequate. A parent should be able to spot the same reactions.

 

[Capsid]

It wasn't vaccine samples, it was samples of live H3N2 virus that was sent to their central lab I recall. This was contaminated with H1N1, so was recalled.

Thanks, it's a serious error but since it's live virus and the vaccine is killed virus I don't see how this compromises vaccine safety, the vaccine would be tested for live virus and then there is further independent testing.

 

[BadBoy]

I disagree. If Tatyana cannot prove that there is no foetal tissue in a vaccine, then they have made a completely useless remark and I think that's worth pointing out.

ok prove that there are no tiny fragments of a teapot which, when assembled has the word g-u-l-l-i-b-l-e painted on the side, in each and every Vaccine.

 

[BadBoy]

Yes, that would make it worse, as pure water/chemically pure water, would be de-ionised water.

Deionised water, and to a lesser extent, distilled water, removes the dissolved metal ions like sodium from water.

The composition of the 'water' in your body, or plasma/extracellular fluid, is approximately 140 mmol/L of sodium (and around 4 mmol/L potassium).

If you introduce chemically pure water into your body, osmosis would occur, and for a balance of sodium ions to occur, water would be ripped out of the extracelluar fluid initially, then the intracelluar fluids, fluids, causing dehydration.

If you make someone drink 'pure water' for any length of time, besides dehydration, you will also cause an electrolyte imbalance, which could cause a cardiac arrest.



I would stop using the smiley faces.

wow, cool post.

I wonder if he really meant spring water or mineral water rather than distilled water. It would be very strange to drink distilled water. Last time I seen some distilled water was years ago when we had to top up car batteries. (I think)

 

[BadBoy]

That's like saying people, lets say 40%, who are likely to be able run 5 miles test the safety of running shoes then requiring by law everyone to run 5 miles.






That has nothing to do with determining whether a baby/toddler suffered a reaction.

even I figured out that its not a test to test it on all sorts of different people in various forms of health. And anyway, to test it on unhealthy people you would need a set of unhealthly people who were all unhealthy to the same amount before you started.

 

[Capsid]

ok prove that there are no tiny fragments of a teapot which, when assembled has the word g-u-l-l-i-b-l-e painted on the side, in each and every Vaccine.

We could turn this around and ask trusetheeker to prove that there are no toxins in the distilled water used by natural health practitioners.

 

[BadBoy]

We could turn this around and ask trusetheeker to prove that there are no toxins in the distilled water used by natural health practitioners.

quite

 

[Belz...]

I disagree.

You can't. You asked her to prove a negative. There are no ifs or buts about it.

I answered your question as I saw fit.

No, you didn't answer my question at all. Answering as you see fit doesn't include not answering.

 

[Tatyana]

wow, cool post.

I wonder if he really meant spring water or mineral water rather than distilled water. It would be very strange to drink distilled water. Last time I seen some distilled water was years ago when we had to top up car batteries. (I think)

Natural hygiene recommends these types of water:

http://naturalhygienesociety.org/review/0801/shelton-fasting.html

5. WATER
The faster will be thirsty at intervals, though rarely as often as when he was eating. The normal demand for water should be met with the purest water available. Mineral waters and waters with a bad taste are not advisable:

A soft spring water,
rain water,
distilled water,
filtered water or
any water that is free of impurities is acceptable.

 

[Capsid]

Natural hygiene recommends these types of water:

http://naturalhygienesociety.org/rev...n-fasting.html
Quote:
5. WATER
The faster will be thirsty at intervals, though rarely as often as when he was eating. The normal demand for water should be met with the purest water available. Mineral waters and waters with a bad taste are not advisable:

A soft spring water,
rain water,
distilled water,
filtered water or
any water that is free of impurities is acceptable.

Right so I'll ask again, how do they know they don't have foetal tissue toxins in them?

 

[Tatyana]

Right so I'll ask again, how do they know they don't have foetal tissue toxins in them?

I guess they just break out their home mass spectrophotomers and/or some high performance liquid chromatography.

Simples.

 

[Rolfe]

What makes "a soft spring water" especially pure, anyway?

Rolfe.

 

[Rerevisionist]

...
"Natural" is a worthless argument. Everything that exists is natural. Termite mounds and skyscrapers are indistinguishable on any scale that matters to the universe.

It isn't entirely worthless. It is possible that some genetically-engineered creature, or some newly-synthesised substance which has never yet existed, or some physical object which has properties which are designed to be unstable or dangerous, could cause harm on a scale not found in nature.

'Natural' things have properties which are more-or-less known. Unnatural things may not.

 

[Clayton Moore]

No, it's like asking people without blisters on their feet to run 5 miles to test if a brand of running shoes causes blisters, rather than asking a mix of people with and without blisters on their feet to run 5 miles to test if a brand of running shoes causes blisters.

The website is a long, detailed list of possible side effects and adverse reactions that have been reported for different vaccines, with the relevant statistics, possible contraindications, etc, noted. Are you asking how can a medical doctor tell if a baby/toddler suffered one of these reactions? Given most of the reactions listed are things like fever, rash, and pain, I dare say 4 years of medical school, a year of internship, and 2 years of residency should prove adequate. A parent should be able to spot the same reactions.

My point was that babies can't communicate their reactions. Say a baby who sleeps 16 or more hours a day has a seizure, stirs for 5 minutes and goes back to sleep.

Say that seizure happens to 1000 babies. Is there any way to connect 18 year old little Billies being just a tad slower than their siblings and the unnoticed seizure?

 

[BadBoy]

It isn't entirely worthless. It is possible that some genetically-engineered creature, or some newly-synthesised substance which has never yet existed, or some physical object which has properties which are designed to be unstable or dangerous, could cause harm on a scale not found in nature.

'Natural' things have properties which are more-or-less known. Unnatural things may not.

if we made them then they are natural. Splitting hairs I know but everything we do and create is a natural consequence of the animal we are. But this is really off topic.

If you apply your reasoning then we could get something unnatural enter into our bodies in many other ways other than an vaccine injection. Why would vaccine injections be anything special.

 

[Estellea]

The abstract doesn't say what they replaced the thimerosal with! Sugar-free (or no added sugar) drinks just replace sugar with other sweeteners notably aspartame. Vaccines in multi-use vials without thimerosal will just use a different preservative. Of course, all other preservatives used will be absolutely safe!

According to the FDA, here's one reason why they use preservatives:

Thimerosal wasn't replaced; most multi-dose vials requiring a preservative were replaced with single use injectors. You're information is incorrect. Preservatives are far more preferred than bacterial contamination in multi-dose vials, I think most of us grasp that.

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Besides being evidence of people suffering and dying at the hands of executioners (oops) vaccinators (which these pro-vaxers insist on denying,) it also shows that if you're going to force this crap into people in the name of saving their lives, you'd best make sure it doesn't kill them outright.

I suppose if you can't argue with facts, there's always emotive and false rhetoric. Vaccines aren't forced in almost every country and "forced" vaccination have been rare isolated events occurring under circumstances where widespread ignorance (based upon paranoid religious leaders) have endangered advances in disease control.
---

How about this for a confidence-inspiring statement from the AAP in 2003:

Perhaps looking at more recent data would behove you, that's the beauty of science: http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2010/09/13/peds.2010-0309.abstract and http://aapgrandrounds.aappublications.org/content/21/5/49.extract

But really, although pumping mercury into a child's body makes as little sense as pumping flouride, aluminum, iodine, etc especially when you're not measuring how much dosage of same they're getting from other sources, there's nothing to say that it's the additives that are causing damage. It just might be any of the other crap that just naturally swims along in the serum from the vaccine host whether human, monkey or chicken that is the culprit.

Oh really, spare the drama. All developed countries have thimerosal-free vaccines on their schedules and only some influenza vaccines for paediatric use have low amounts of thimerosal.

Este