Occupy Wall Street better defend its identity

[bookitty]

So getting 400 people to pay a slightly higher tax rate would fix the wealth disparity that allows the richest 400 Americans to hold more wealth than half of all Americans?

No, but it would allow for some (only some) balancing of the budget that didn't include cuts to medicare and social security.

The US government can not work with extremes. Complete wealth distribution is an extreme. So are excessive tax cuts that don't bring in enough money to pay for our military actions and our necessary social responsibilities.

 

[bikerdruid]

The US government can not work with extremes. Complete wealth distribution is an extreme. So are excessive tax cuts that don't bring in enough money to pay for our military actions and our necessary social responsibilities.

and tremendous irony is to be found in the fact that those most of those who oppose taxing the rich also are in favour american military involvement in foreign wars.
some amuricans are sooo funny.

 

[Neally]

No, but it would allow for some (only some) balancing of the budget that didn't include cuts to medicare and social security.

The US government can not work with extremes. Complete wealth distribution is an extreme. So are excessive tax cuts that don't bring in enough money to pay for our military actions and our necessary social responsibilities.

Well now I'm confused. First you say that one of the goals is to address a wealth disparity, then you say raising the tax rate on 400 people is an answer to that, then you say it isn't.

So tell us now, in unequivocal terms, how do you and the OWS want to reduce the wealth disparity, reduce it to how much, who gets their wealth taken from them, and who receives it, who decides and why?

 

[stilicho]

We've seen how US police react to a few dozen non-violent students sitting down and linking arms.

Do you not think the bullets would start flying in the US if, instead, tens of thousands of protestors, intent on removing the ruling oligarchy, violently forced the security forces to retreat, captured, danced on and burnt their vehicles and pelted the police with rocks?

No, you've seen a single anecdotal YouTube vaulting a solitary individual into momentary celebrity status.

Suddenly you've veered off into an ImaginationLand in which the "movement" consists of tens of thousands of protestors and the government is so hamstrung they start shooting people with real munitions. Let's play pretend! Your scenario is simply beyond far-fetched. Besides, if there really were large crowds (take a look at crowds in Tahrir Square or any large scale European protests to compare), and they did turn violent, they'd all go home content as soon as they looted the nearest Best Buy and stole themselves new flatscreen TVs. We know this, and don't have to pretend, because that's exactly what happened during the "riots" in the UK a few months ago. After burning a couple of historical sites and stealing some electronics so they could play Xbox they all went home and logged on to Call Of Duty 4.

And that's in the UK where things are presumably much more desperate for the "poor" than they are in the US or Canada.

 

[stilicho]

Speaking of gawd-awful sonic thingies:

That's where the coin is and I know that I'd be promoting it if I were in the business. Set something up with iTunes or another downloading service to promote it as "proceeds to Occupy Defense Fund" (or some other bogus organisation on which you're also treasurer) and watch those suckers fly.

 

[stilicho]

That's not the message of OWS. OWS wants to reduce corporate influence within our government, see the banks that crash the worldwide economy be held accountable and to address a wealth disparity that allows the richest 400 Americans to hold more wealth than half of all Americans (156 million people) combined. OWS supports no specific candidate.

Even if they did, there is no hard left in government anymore. (with the sole and notable exception of Bernie Sanders) Even the failed super-committee was willing to make deep spending cuts, beyond the comfort level of even the most moderate progressive.

Are you sure that's their message? Have you tried speaking on that subject at any of their shindigs?

I read that whole site that Virus posted yesterday and there was not a single sign even suggesting that's what the message is.

 

[stilicho]

The one where they overthrew a monarchy and not a democracy.

There were two revolutions in Russia in 1917 and the second one did not overthrow a monarchy but instead a provisional government that intended to establish a new constitution. Had the communists supported the provisional government and influenced the course of events from within then there would have been no Soviet Union.

 

[bookitty]

Are you sure that's their message? Have you tried speaking on that subject at any of their shindigs?

I read that whole site that Virus posted yesterday and there was not a single sign even suggesting that's what the message is.

Yes and yes.

A biased site did not have pictures of individuals holding signs that support the ongoing message, still relevant message. Somehow I am not surprised. Here is a biased report from the left, the signs are present.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/...fer-of-Permanent-Indoor-Space?via=blog_747929

 

[bookitty]

Well now I'm confused. First you say that one of the goals is to address a wealth disparity, then you say raising the tax rate on 400 people is an answer to that, then you say it isn't.

So tell us now, in unequivocal terms, how do you and the OWS want to reduce the wealth disparity, reduce it to how much, who gets their wealth taken from them, and who receives it, who decides and why?

Are you seriously asking for a silver bullet "answer" to our current political and economic woes? That's not how it works. Getting America back on track will take a series of actions, compromises, and revisions to existing law. There is no single answer, there are only partial solutions that will address specific issues.

 

[Clayton Moore]

and tremendous irony is to be found in the fact that those most of those who oppose taxing the rich also are in favour american military involvement in foreign wars.
some amuricans are sooo funny.

Yes it's bizarre. The media's depiction of political agenda in the US is boiler room at best.

 

[Neally]

Are you seriously asking for a silver bullet "answer" to our current political and economic woes? That's not how it works. Getting America back on track will take a series of actions, compromises, and revisions to existing law. There is no single answer, there are only partial solutions that will address specific issues.

More equivocation, as expected. Just admit that OWS doesn't have answers. They don't know or even suggest solutions. It's more about being part of the protest scene.

 

[JihadJane]

Because he's an idiot.

Moving on.....

That seems like a usefully vague statement. What has he done that is idiotic, and why was it idiotic?

Nope. Rubber Bullets, beanbags, pepper spray and maybe those gawd awful sonic thingies....

What precedent do you base this judgement on? When was the last time the power of US oligarchy was seriously threatened and under mass attack from the people?

(You omitted head-level CS gas canisters, clubs and fists)


~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Pike's fame spreads:

 

[Clayton Moore]

Are you seriously asking for a silver bullet "answer" to our current political and economic woes? That's not how it works. Getting America back on track will take a series of actions, compromises, and revisions to existing law. There is no single answer, there are only partial solutions that will address specific issues.

The silver bullet is to get Congress to re-regulate much of what they have deregulated over the past half century or so.

 

[stilicho]

Yes and yes.

A biased site did not have pictures of individuals holding signs that support the ongoing message, still relevant message. Somehow I am not surprised. Here is a biased report from the left, the signs are present.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/...fer-of-Permanent-Indoor-Space?via=blog_747929

Not much different. The majority of the signs there feature an anti-war message and indigenous rights issues, neither of which have anything to do with raising the marginal tax rate or slightly adjusting the capital gains tax rate. After that (and I may have missed some) are a hodge-podge of messages about composting/recycling, housing foreclosures, the Federal Reserve, death penalty abolition, yoga, anarchy and...stuck in the middle of a few of them...tax cuts.

Do you understand now why it doesn't matter which photojournalist is posting on the topics meaningful to the Occupy "movement"? How do you think it would be received if I took the stage and told them that their yoga exhortations, Federal Reserve stuff, and anti-war posturing was diluting the message until it was incomprehensible? Did you try telling them anything like that when you spoke?

I told RandFan many pages ago that the Occupy "movement" would do well to copy the most successful populist campaign in American history, the Anti-Saloon League. They were not only wildly popular (connecting prohibition with other social theories on intellectual evolution and the transformation of humanity into something better) but they limited their focus to one issue and one issue only. That issue transformed American politics forever and included a whole constitutional amendment--not an easy feat at the best of times.

That's why the Occupy "movement" has to drop issues like abolition of the death penalty. It has nothing to do with income disparity and only creates the atmosphere for a schism. Same thing with indigenous issues or bank foreclosures.

Without a great deal of energy committed to focusing the message then nothing will be accomplished.

 

[Valkyrie144]

http://www.amazon.co...iews/B0058EOAUE

Amazon reviews of pepper spray

take 2

After the UC Davis pepper spay incident there are now hundreds of reviews on amazon about the spray. Very funny stuff. Go check them out for some serious lols.

http://www.amazon.co...iews/B0058EOAUE

From the 5 star review:


Quote

Accept no substitutes when casually repressing students, November 21, 2011


By
D-bag of Liberty - See all my reviews
This review is from: Defense Technology 56895 MK-9 Stream, 1.3% Red Band/1.3% Blue Band Pepper Spray (Misc.)
Whenever I need to breezily inflict discipline on unruly citizens, I know I can trust Defense Technology 56895 MK-9 Stream, 1.3% Red Band/1.3% Blue Band Pepper Spray to get the job done! The power of reason is no match for Defense Technology's superior repression power. When I reach for my can of Defense Technology 56895 MK-9 Stream, 1.3% Red Band/1.3% Blue Band Pepper Spray, I know that even the mighty First Amendment doesn't stand a chance against its many scovil units of civil rights suppression.

When I feel threatened by students, no matter how unarmed, peaceful and seated they may be, I know that Defense Technology 56895 MK-9 Stream, 1.3% Red Band/1.3% Blue Band Pepper Spray has got my back as I casually spray away at point blank range.

It really is the Cadillac of citizen repression technology.

Buy a whole case!


To the 1 star:


Quote

Product Warnng: This procuct multiplies protesters, November 22, 2011


By
pen name "100yrsold" (Gainesville, FL USA) - See all my reviews
This review is from: Defense Technology 56895 MK-9 Stream, 1.3% Red Band/1.3% Blue Band Pepper Spray (Misc.)
I casually used this product to try to disperse a small band of non-violent campers who had locked their arms together. Although initially it seemed to be effective, it took two applications! The worst part is that the next day they multiplied exponentially! Now what?

One positive outcome, I did receive a paid vacation for my efforts.

 

[bookitty]

The silver bullet is to get Congress to re-regulate much of what they have deregulated over the past half century or so.

Yes, that is part of what OWS is asking for. Even that process isn't simple. First our politicians need to see that it is in their best interest to do so. Given that the candidate with the largest amount of donations will inevitably win, our choice of politicians not beholden to those dedicated to deregulation is very slim.

 

[applecorped]

http://www.amazon.co...iews/B0058EOAUE

Amazon reviews of pepper spray

take 2

After the UC Davis pepper spay incident there are now hundreds of reviews on amazon about the spray. Very funny stuff. Go check them out for some serious lols.

http://www.amazon.co...iews/B0058EOAUE

From the 5 star review:


Quote

Accept no substitutes when casually repressing students, November 21, 2011


By
D-bag of Liberty - See all my reviews
This review is from: Defense Technology 56895 MK-9 Stream, 1.3% Red Band/1.3% Blue Band Pepper Spray (Misc.)
Whenever I need to breezily inflict discipline on unruly citizens, I know I can trust Defense Technology 56895 MK-9 Stream, 1.3% Red Band/1.3% Blue Band Pepper Spray to get the job done! The power of reason is no match for Defense Technology's superior repression power. When I reach for my can of Defense Technology 56895 MK-9 Stream, 1.3% Red Band/1.3% Blue Band Pepper Spray, I know that even the mighty First Amendment doesn't stand a chance against its many scovil units of civil rights suppression.

When I feel threatened by students, no matter how unarmed, peaceful and seated they may be, I know that Defense Technology 56895 MK-9 Stream, 1.3% Red Band/1.3% Blue Band Pepper Spray has got my back as I casually spray away at point blank range.

It really is the Cadillac of citizen repression technology.

Buy a whole case!


To the 1 star:


Quote

Product Warnng: This procuct multiplies protesters, November 22, 2011


By
pen name "100yrsold" (Gainesville, FL USA) - See all my reviews
This review is from: Defense Technology 56895 MK-9 Stream, 1.3% Red Band/1.3% Blue Band Pepper Spray (Misc.)
I casually used this product to try to disperse a small band of non-violent campers who had locked their arms together. Although initially it seemed to be effective, it took two applications! The worst part is that the next day they multiplied exponentially! Now what?

One positive outcome, I did receive a paid vacation for my efforts.

Can I get some dressing to go with that salad?

 

[stilicho]

Yes, that is part of what OWS is asking for. Even that process isn't simple. First our politicians need to see that it is in their best interest to do so. Given that the candidate with the largest amount of donations will inevitably win, our choice of politicians not beholden to those dedicated to deregulation is very slim.

What is the first regulation you wish to impose?

 

[Neally]

What is the first regulation you wish to impose?

You're confusing them with a group that has, you know, an actual plan with, like goals. OWS just wants to "address" issues, not actually do something meaningful about them.

 

[Robrob]

You're confusing them with a group that has, you know, an actual plan with, like goals. OWS just wants to "address" issues, not actually do something meaningful about them.

How long did it take the Tea Party to formulate goals and objectives?