Occupy Wall Street better defend its identity

[Pardalis]

too many asterices.

So you called to be verbally abusive. Classy.

And what will that accomplish?

 

[thaiboxerken]

What should the police have done?

nothing

 

[bookitty]

and the fact that we are still talking about it proves it is still effective.
the whacktards can bitch and moan all they want....people are pissed off.
the revolution has begun.
bankers and capitalist pigs beware.
if you are not supporting the movement, you had best just keep out of the way.

Or we could say that OWS has been effective in bringing some troubling aspects of the worldwide collusion between financial institutions, corporations and governments into the public eye. (regardless of that public's support for OWS.) That this information, as it becomes more widely known, will cause some push-back from the people being most negatively affected. Which might (in time) help to balance the influence of the lobbies, campaign support, and powerful government positions which are currently run by people from the financial sector.

 

[thaiboxerken]

It was night time, and the police are not required to evaluate each individual protester's age they are facing.

Spray them all, let God sort them out!

 

[thaiboxerken]

I watched the video again and I don't see anyone's mouth being forced open.

Maybe the reason they got pepper in the throat was because they were yelling?

Repeated pepper spraying force the mouth open because it's very dificult to breathe through the nose after the first dosage.

 

[bikerdruid]

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/c.../22/uc-davis-physicists-to-chancellor-katehi/

professors at UC Davis call for chancellor's resignation.

 

[bikerdruid]

So you called to be verbally abusive. Classy.

And what will that accomplish?

best i could do from a distance, without pepper spray.

 

[Pardalis]

Repeated pepper spraying force the mouth open because it's very dificult to breathe through the nose after the first dosage.

Nice circular logic there.

best i could do from a distance, without pepper spray.

So you called, abused him verbally (or his answering machine I presume), all for nothing.

Good, just as I thought. Impressive. Just an empty gesture of violence.

 

[Neally]

fear of justice.
he will be charged with assault.
count on it.
you will see him next year, flipping burgers at mcdonald's.

Experts disagree:

"I'd venture to say you're going to see those officers get their jobs back, they're going to be back on active duty, they're not going to be suspended,"

http://www.news10.net/news/article/164227/2/Was-pepper-spray-use-justified-Experts-disagree

"Dieter Dammeier, an Upland lawyer for the Federated University Police Officers Association, the union that represents UC Davis officers, said the operations plan issued by the department includes the use of pepper spray." http://m.rgj.com/latestupdates/article?a=2011111123002&f=1304

 

[stokes234]

Yes, those police officers did their job.

Really? The police's job is to dish out pain as a punishment to people who are refusing to move? I'm certainly seeing the orwellian tint to that stance. No justice system should never try to correct people using pain. Even if you're comfortable with the ethics of it, which I most certainly am not, there's scant evidence that it's a successful tactic. This guardian article cites studies from holland showing that when used for subduing aggressive people pepper spray is effective, but when used against peaceful protestors it is actually more likely to make them more violent than less.

 

[Pardalis]

I'm sure M. Pike could sue a few people for threats and harassment.

 

[Pardalis]

Really? The police's job is to dish out pain as a punishment to people who are refusing to move? I'm certainly seeing the orwellian tint to that stance.

Sure...

The protesters got out of jail the same day without any inconvenience, and if the officers did anything unlawful they have every judicial means at their disposal to lodge a complaint and sue them.

Not much of an Orwellian world there.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Nice circular logic there.

.

Repeated pepper spraying of a person forces the mouth open. That's not even logic, it's just a fact.

 

[stilicho]

Really? The police's job is to dish out pain as a punishment to people who are refusing to move? I'm certainly seeing the orwellian tint to that stance. No justice system should never try to correct people using pain. Even if you're comfortable with the ethics of it, which I most certainly am not, there's scant evidence that it's a successful tactic. This guardian article cites studies from holland showing that when used for subduing aggressive people pepper spray is effective, but when used against peaceful protestors it is actually more likely to make them more violent than less.

What non-lethal methods of crowd control do you champion?

 

[stokes234]

Sure...

The protesters got out of jail the same day without any inconvenience, and if the officers did anything unlawful they have every judicial means at their disposal to lodge a complaint and sue them.

Not much of an Orwellian world there.

I didn't say orwellian world, I said orwellian tint. It's right there in my post.

In your opinion, should the role of the justice system include applying pain to peaceful protestors if they refuse to move? Can you think of any other peaceful protests throughout history where you would have supported the police if they had gone around applying pain to protestors who were sitting down? And would you consider 11 treatments by paramedics and two hospitalisations to be any kind of inconvenience?

 

[Pardalis]

Repeated pepper spraying of a person forces the mouth open. That's not even logic, it's just a fact.

Protesters aren't usually silent, they do have to open their mouths to flail about like a bunch of schizophrenics, which is more likely how some might have gotten sprayed in their mouths.

 

[stokes234]

What non-lethal methods of crowd control do you champion?

Actually, i'm yet to be convinced that a group of people sitting down constitute a crowd that needs to be controlled.

 

[Pardalis]

In your opinion, should the role of the justice system include applying pain to peaceful protestors if they refuse to move?

A certain amount of pain is inevitable if you want to remove people from their location.

Can you think of any other peaceful protests throughout history where you would have supported the police if they had gone around applying pain to protestors who were sitting down? And would you consider 11 treatments by paramedics and two hospitalisations to be any kind of inconvenience?

I doubt the pepper was the cause of the hospitalizations.

 

[Neally]

Actually, i'm yet to be convinced that a group of people sitting down constitute a crowd that needs to be controlled.

Then you aren't paying attention. They were sprayed so that the chain could be broken and they could be arrested. That was the best way to gain compliance from the resisting protesters.

 

[stilicho]

Actually, i'm yet to be convinced that a group of people sitting down constitute a crowd that needs to be controlled.

Apart from that, what non-lethal methods of crowd control do you champion?