Vaccines: how do I talk to my anti-vac wife about it?

[Anders Lindman]

Some people suspected it quite soon, I would suggest you read through Brian Deer's site.

Those studies have been done.

The media played a huge part in promoting the fallacy and not presenting the evidence that demonstrated no link between MMR and autism.

But isn't the Lancet a peer-review journal? How could the article pass the peer-review in the first place if the fraud was so easy to detect?

 

[Tomblvd]

I can't see how such study could be difficult. Just compare vaccinated children with children who haven't taken the vaccine and compare the autism statistics! Maybe that's what they have done, but then why did it take so long time for the fraud article to be exposed?

MMR vaccine is not linked with autism, says Danish study

Here:

The study reviewed records of 537303 children born in Denmark between January 1991 and December 1998, representing almost 100% of children born in that period. Of these children 440655 had been vaccinated. Records were retrieved from three sources: the unique identification number assigned to each child at birth; MMR vaccination data reported to the National Board of Health by general practitioners, who give all MMR vaccinations and are reimbursed for their reports; and diagnoses of autism recorded in the Danish Psychiatric Central Registry. Only specialists in child psychiatry diagnose autism and related conditions.

The study considered the children's sex, weight and gestational age at birth, and age at diagnosis of autism or of a related disorder; the socioeconomic status of the parents; and the mother's education.
The authors found that “There was no increase in the risk of autistic disorder or other autistic-spectrum disorders among vaccinated children as compared with unvaccinated children (adjusted relative risk of autistic disorder, 0.92; 95% confidence interval, 0.68 to 1.24; adjusted relative risk of other autistic-spectrum disorders, 0.83; 95% confidence interval, 0.65 to 1.07).”

 

[trusetheeker]

What is your point? That they should have started vaccinating sooner?

Do you actually understand how deadly cholera is?

I know that cholera is deadly enough to stop it happening in the first place. That's why I criticised the rescuers who chose to focus on other priorities, although the worst of the bunch was the US Military who tied up the only runway for days, turning actual relief flights away, while they established control of the perimeter but even weeks after that, the main focus was on how to spend the money instead of dealing intelligently with the human crisis.

In fairness, the Cuban doctors were on the scene immediately providing what help they could until the supplies ran out due to the port and runway being tied up by the US Military.

Cholera is typically transmitted by either contaminated food or water. In the developed world, seafood is the usual cause, while in the developing world it is more often water.[1] Cholera has been found in only two other animal populations: shellfish and plankton.[1]

People infected with cholera often have diarrhea, and if this highly liquid stool, colloquially referred to as "rice-water," or "faucet butt," contaminates water used by others, disease transmission may occur.[8] The source of the contamination is typically other cholera sufferers when their untreated diarrheal discharge is allowed to get into waterways or into groundwater or drinking water supplies. Drinking any infected water and eating any foods washed in the water, as well as shellfish living in the affected waterway, can cause a person to contract an infection.

So, by providing clean water and sanitation in abundance they could have headed off at least the main part of the cholera outbreak if not prevented it entirely.
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Where does the carbon dioxide come from?

Apparently you're not familiar with the respiratory system otherwise you'd know where the carbon dioxide comes from.
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PS. This year I have had DTP, hepatitis A, hepatitis B, rabies, MMR and influenza vaccinations.

The chances of an adverse event from vaccination is rare.

Yep, you're definitely one of the lucky ones!

 

[Anders Lindman]

MMR vaccine is not linked with autism, says Danish study

Here:

"The study reviewed records of 537303 children born in Denmark between January 1991 and December 1998, representing almost 100% of children born in that period. "

Another study:

"The discontinuation of thimerosal-containing vaccines in Denmark in 1992 was followed by an increase in the incidence of autism. Our ecological data do not support a correlation between thimerosal-containing vaccines and the incidence of autism." -- http://www.pediatricsdigest.mobi/content/112/3/604.full

How can the removal of mercury from vaccine correlate with the increase of autism? Sure, it could be other factors yet I find it curious how the removal of the mercury matches an increase of autism.

 

[Tomblvd]

Another study:

"The discontinuation of thimerosal-containing vaccines in Denmark in 1992 was followed by an increase in the incidence of autism. Our ecological data do not support a correlation between thimerosal-containing vaccines and the incidence of autism." -- http://www.pediatricsdigest.mobi/content/112/3/604.full

How can the removal of mercury from vaccine correlate with the increase of autism? Sure, it could be other factors yet I find it curious how the removal of the mercury matches an increase of autism.

Did you even read what you cut-and-pasted?! Specifically the bolded portion?

Sheesh.

 

[trusetheeker]

"Since the mid-1980s, many vaccines have been added to the schedule. Now, children could receive as many as 24 shots by 2 years of age and five shots in a single visit." -- http://www.chop.edu/service/vaccine...ine-schedule/history-of-vaccine-schedule.html

How do they know how to safely combine five different vaccines to a 2-year-old child at the same visit?

It's easy when you're trained to play God! (or is it god?)

 

[Anders Lindman]

Did you even read what you cut-and-pasted?! Specifically the bolded portion?

Sheesh.

My point is expressed in the other thread in the conspiracy section: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7781098&postcount=719

 

[Tomblvd]

My point is expressed in the other thread in the conspiracy section: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7781098&postcount=719

Nobody is interested in your conspiracy theories, we want facts. You can't just ignore inconvenient facts by changing the subject.

Speaking of, I thought we were talking about MMR, not thimerosal?

 

[trusetheeker]

So within a dozen posts you have gone from "There's no denying that vaccines have an effect" to vaccines being "nonsense"?

Which is it?

There's nothing contradictory in the two phrases.

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You also made this puzzling statement earlier:

The bod[y]s inability to mount an acute "disease" means that it cannot detoxify itself efficiently which is just storing up for something worse in the future.

I asked for clarification, but none was given. What does this statement mean?

OK for clarification, in my own words:

Once you understand that acute disease (as opposed to chronic) is the body's mechanism for eliminating toxicity, it naturally follows that interfering with that mechanism can only have negative effects. Modern medicine, which sees disease as an attack by pathogens, insists on diminishing the outward expression (symptoms) of the disease with various drugs and procedures, not only diminishing the eliminative effort but actually adding to the toxic load. If they would, instead, allow the body to complete the process while keeping the patient warm in a well-ventilated room with only water to drink as desired, complete recovery would be assured within the ability of the individual. If the patient's body lacks the vitality to eliminate the toxicity, there is nothing that anyone will be able to do to help. You cannot poison a person back to health.

The fact that people do survive when doctors insist on huge doses of drugs and antibiotics and in the case of cancers (chronic disease) chemotherapy and radiation, surgical removal of organs and limbs is a testament to the resilience of the human organism.

Better and more in depth explanations are available. Just start doing some research if you're really interested.

 

[trusetheeker]

Yes, its shocking how this horrible western frankenstein stuff has dropped infant mortality to virtually nothing and raised the live expectancy of the world to such an extent that it's doubled since these frankenstein experiments began.
All so they can make money of us for longer.

So, the average natural livespan of a human living without all those frankenstein experiments and western comforts is about 40 ish.

I'm going with the frankensteins and intent to live longer, but I'm glad to hear that there are those that seek to prevent overpopulation.

Just keep repeating the mantras and ignore all evidence to the contrary. Simples!

 

[Capsid]

Once you understand that acute disease (as opposed to chronic) is the body's mechanism for eliminating toxicity, it naturally follows that interfering with that mechanism can only have negative effects. Modern medicine, which sees disease as an attack by pathogens, insists on diminishing the outward expression (symptoms) of the disease with various drugs and procedures, not only diminishing the eliminative effort but actually adding to the toxic load. If they would, instead, allow the body to complete the process while keeping the patient warm in a well-ventilated room with only water to drink as desired, complete recovery would be assured within the ability of the individual. If the patient's body lacks the vitality to eliminate the toxicity, there is nothing that anyone will be able to do to help. You cannot poison a person back to health.

The fact that people do survive when doctors insist on huge doses of drugs and antibiotics and in the case of cancers (chronic disease) chemotherapy and radiation, surgical removal of organs and limbs is a testament to the resilience of the human organism.

Better and more in depth explanations are available. Just start doing some research if you're really interested.

Is chlorine in the water a toxin?

 

[trusetheeker]

But there are other chemicals in the vaccines. Five vaccines into a baby means a huge dose of those other chemicals, doesn't it?

Not to mention traces of the aborted human fetuses that many vaccines are grown on which might be better than the ones grown in fertilized chicken eggs. Then add in the bovine serum albumin (guess where that comes from) and then roll the dice for whether they've added thimerasol or aluminum. What's there to worry about?

Vaccines that use aborted fetuses:
Acambis 1000 (smallpox) Acambis -- MRC5
Avaxim (hepatitis A) Pateur Merieux -- MRC5
Biavax (mumps, rubella) Merck -- RA273, WI-38
Ervevax (rubella) Smithkilne Beecham -- MRC5
Havarix (hepatitis A) Smithkilne Beecham -- MRC5
Imovax HDCV, DCO (rabies) Pasteur Merieux Connaught -- MRC5
Meruvax II (rubella) Merck -- RA273, WI-38
MMR II (Measles, mumps, rubella) Merck Sharp & Dohme -- WI-38
MR VAX (measles, rubella) Merck -- RA273, WI-38
Poliovax (polio, IPV) MRC5
Priorix (measles, mumps, rubella) Smithkline Beecham -- MRC5
Proquad (mmr, chickenpox/varicella) Merck -- RA273, WI-38, MRC5
Twinrix (hepatitis A and B) GSK -- MRC5
VAQTA (hepatitis A) MSD -- MRC5
Varivax (chickenpox, varicella) MSD -- WI-38
Zostavax (shingles) Merck -- MRC5, WI-38

 

[trusetheeker]

Yes, vaccines are thoroughly tested and even then they are monitored following approval for adverse effects.

Keep repeating the mantras and it will make it true!

 

[Capsid]

Not to mention traces of the aborted human fetuses that many vaccines are grown on which might be better than the ones grown in fertilized chicken eggs. Then add in the bovine serum albumin (guess where that comes from) and then roll the dice for whether they've added thimerasol or aluminum. What's there to worry about?

Oh for goodness sake, MRC5 is a cell line derived from a single human foetus many, many years ago. A new foetus is not used for each vaccine. You're worried about eggs and meat? Are they dangerous now?

 

[Capsid]

Keep repeating the mantras and it will make it true!

I happen to have first hand experience of vaccine testing.

 

[trusetheeker]

Here is hard data about autism in children: http://www.tacanow.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/autism-statistics-2009.jpg

From: http://www.tacanow.org/family-resources/latest-autism-statistics-2/

Nice graph but you cannot pin anything on the teflon-coated vaccine industry. Butter wouldn't melt...!

People's lives and health are not important. V$cc$n$s work!

 

[Anders Lindman]

Nice graph but you cannot pin anything on the teflon-coated vaccine industry. Butter wouldn't melt...!

People's lives and health are not important. V$cc$n$s work!

The vaccine industry seems to go by the same rules as food manufacturers. If you can drink Coca-Cola then it's good enough to pump into the veins of babies. Ha ha. Just kidding a bit.

 

[Capsid]

The vaccine industry seems to go by the same rules as food manufacturers. If you can drink Coca-Cola then it's good enough to pump into the veins of babies. Ha ha. Just kidding a bit.

Yet no vaccines are injected into veins.

 

[Anders Lindman]

Yet no vaccines are injected into veins.

Into the capillary beds? I'm sure the Coca-Cola will be harmless there.

 

[Capsid]

Into the capillary beds? I'm sure the Coca-Cola will be harmless there.

Methinks you're here to wind us up. What happened to respect?