Occupy Wall Street better defend its identity

[Taarkin]

Goodness, you really are not up to date on this whole UC Davis thing, eh?
Lets take a lot at something that happened on the 14th at Berkeley.
Fair enough, opinions are opinions, but Birgeneau goes on to say,
UC Davis students showed solidarity with Berkeley students that Tuesday by squatting in Mrak hall and eventually setting up their own encampment in order to bait cops to respond in a similar fashion.

This doesn't support your assertion at all! It actually gives reasons for why the protesters did what they did!

 

[dc1971]

Low, non-existent, and poor, respectively.

This is what OWS is fighting for, in your view? Low wages, no benefits, and poor working conditions?

That's not what I was asking. Take a look at my posting after that question.

#2597

 

[Taarkin]

Sounds like OWS:
But it's Time Magazine, gushing over Woodstock. And we all know that Woodstock changed the world forever.

The activist movements of the 60s and 70s did change the world forever.

 

[IDB87]

This doesn't support your assertion at all! It actually gives reasons for why the protesters did what they did!

The assertion is that the encampments were in response to alleged 'police brutality' at UC Berkeley, supported by their own supporters - it had nothing to do with OWS.

What do you believe my assertion is?

 

[Taarkin]

The assertion is that the encampments were in response to alleged 'police brutality' at UC Berkeley, supported by their own supporters - it had nothing to do with OWS.

Supporting an Occupy movement has "nothing to do" with the Occupy movement.

What do you believe my assertion is?

"setting up the camps on campus was a direct challenge to authority for its own sake, not for any advancement of the OWS cause" emphasis mine.
This means you have to show that the ONLY goal of the activists was to challenge authority. Not to keep the tents, not to show solidarity with others, not for privacy and shelter, and not political theater.

 

[IDB87]

Supporting an Occupy movement has "nothing to do" with the Occupy movement.

Did you not read the blog I linked to, or Birgeneau's statement? I'm assuming you didn't.

 

[IDB87]

"setting up the camps on campus was a direct challenge to authority for its own sake, not for any advancement of the OWS cause" emphasis mine.
This means you have to show that the ONLY goal of the activists was to challenge authority. Not to keep the tents, not to show solidarity with others, not for privacy and shelter, and not political theater.

The OWS cause in this case was protesting tuition hikes, which was what was happening that Tuesday, within the rules of the university. After UC Berkeley kids suffered "police brutality" for setting up camps against university rules, UC Davis attempted to elicit a similar response to highlight police brutality.

The question goes to you, and I guess UC Davis protesters - what does refusing to take down tents have to do with tuition hikes?

 

[dc1971]

The activist movements of the 60s and 70s did change the world forever.

Many events of the 60's changed the world forever, specifically technological advancements whether they be consumer-based or for the purposes of defense and the military. Shucks, we sent astronauts to the moon in the 60's for crying out loud!

 

[Taarkin]

Did you not read the blog I linked to, or Birgeneau's statement? I'm assuming you didn't.

I read the part where Samer Naji said that the events at Berkley would influence other occupy movements. (The thing that you said Birgeneau said was actually not said by Birgeneau).

The OWS cause in this case was protesting tuition hikes, which was what was happening that Tuesday, within the rules of the university. After UC Berkeley kids suffered "police brutality" for setting up camps against university rules, UC Davis attempted to elicit a similar response to highlight police brutality.

The question goes to you, and I guess UC Davis protesters - what does refusing to take down tents have to do with tuition hikes?

Are tuition hikes the ONLY thing the occupy Berkley movement is on about? Are tuition hikes in any way related to the occupiers' other complaints? Did these Davis occupiers have NO OCCUPY-RELATED GOALS when they set up tents and refused to move?

 

[IDB87]

I read the part where Samer Naji said that the events at Berkley would influence other occupy movements.

He is correct.

(The thing that you said Birgeneau said was actually not said by Birgeneau).

Yes, I see that now. Zoe Weiss, a sophomore at the school said this.

Are tuition hikes the ONLY thing the occupy Berkley movement is on about?

I doubt it.

Are tuition hikes in any way related to the occupiers' other complaints?

I'm sure.

Did these Davis occupiers have NO OCCUPY-RELATED GOALS when they set up tents and refused to move?

That would depend on what Occupy goals they thought they could accomplish by setting up the encampments after Berkeley students were evicted for doing something similar. As it stands, the erecting of the encampment appears to be a deliberate attempt to elicit a firm response from police in order to highlight police brutality. It is separate from any form of tuition protest, unless you or Davis protesters can come up with a convincing argument.

 

[Taarkin]

I doubt it.
I'm sure.
That would depend on what Occupy goals they thought they could accomplish by setting up the encampments after Berkeley students were evicted for doing something similar. As it stands, the erecting of the encampment appears to be a deliberate attempt to elicit a firm response from police in order to highlight police brutality. It is separate from any form of tuition protest, unless you or Davis protesters can come up with a convincing argument.

Goals: supporting other occupiers, garnering public sympathy for OWS.

 

[IDB87]

Goals: supporting other occupiers

By defying police instruction not to set up encampments. Not a cause related to tuition hikes as has been stated, but one that has to do with highlighting police 'brutality'.

How does setting up an encampment, against school rules, help end tuition hikes again?

garnering public sympathy for OWS.

This I believe. It has nothing to do with relieving tuition hikes, but has everything to do with notoriety.

*ETA

Linking to Schrodinger's Cat post about her experience with "Occupy Harvard Yard", if you care to read it.

 

[theprestige]

Read the thread (or failing that, use your brain): violence that is legally or morally justified IS STILL VIOLENCE.

If the violence is legally or morally justified, what exactly is your complaint?

 

[Taarkin]

By defying police instruction not to set up encampments. Not a cause related to tuition hikes as has been stated, but one that has to do with highlighting police 'brutality'. How does setting up an encampment, against school rules, help end tuition hikes again?

Setting up tents allows some privacy and shelter for people protesting tuition hikes.

This I believe. It has nothing to do with relieving tuition hikes

See above.

but has everything to do with notoriety.

Huh. So there there is a goal besides defying authority for its own sake.

 

[Taarkin]

If the violence is legally or morally justified, what exactly is your complaint?

My complaint is that shuize won't let the simple fact that violence is violence into his thick skull.

 

[bikerdruid]

here is a chance to call the dude and express your disgust or admiration.
(anyone who feels that this was necessary force, is clearly deluded)

 

[dc1971]

here is a chance to call the dude and express your disgust or admiration.
(anyone who feels that this was necessary force, is clearly deluded)

It also bothers me that the cops are decked out in stormtrooper gear. Are they expecting a war?

 

[WildCat]

That's not what I was asking. Take a look at my posting after that question.

#2597

Which proves nothing. Tell me about their wage and benefits packages, so we can compare to comparable jobs held by legal workers. Provide evidence also, so we know you're not just making stuff up.

This guy drives a truck without a CDL?

 

[bikerdruid]

here is a chance to call the dude and express your disgust or admiration.
(anyone who feels that this was necessary force, is clearly deluded)

It also bothers me that the cops are decked out in stormtrooper gear. Are they expecting a war?

he does not look very threatened to me.

 

[IDB87]

Setting up tents allows some privacy and shelter for people protesting tuition hikes.

So do their dorms.

Huh. So there there is a goal besides defying authority for its own sake.

It wouldn't surprise me.

You're still ducking what the actual purpose of setting up the encampment was. We have several pro UC Davis sources claiming it was solely for defying police orders.

*ETA

Nothing to say about Schrodinger's Cat experience on a campus that was occupied by OWS?