Occupy Wall Street better defend its identity

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Taarkin said:
Turning an unused resource into a homeless shelter?
My god. Will these monsters stop at nothing? Take us to DEFCON 2, general.
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The occupiers don't mention anything on how they plan on turning it into a homeless shelter.

Here are the basic steps in starting up a shelter:

http://www.ehow.com/how_5530676_start-nonprofit-homeless-shelter.html

Have they offered any hint that they will follow those basic steps? Have they secured the place, have they contacted the authorities, fire department and the city, the urbanism department? How will they go about getting a proper permit? Who will sign the lease? Have they any plan on renovating it? If so with what money?

No, they just say they will "occupy it" (read squat it). Like the rest of the movement they don't seem to have any clue on how to do things.
 
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Setting up a homeless shelter is not something you do on a whim, it takes planning and money. It's serious business. People's lives is serious business.

The way they've set up camp in Manhattan, one tent on top of another, with propane tanks all over the place and no sanitation facilities whatsoever makes me concerned on how serious they really are about turning that building into a place where people will have to live in.
 
shuize said:
What question? Whether I was serious?

Yes, I don't think what I viewed on that video amounted to "violence" by the police.

It was political theater by the protesters. The police were just doing their jobs.

"Violence" is cracking skulls, not spraying eye-irritant on people who essentially asked to be sprayed by ignoring lawful orders to comply.
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Shuize sprays his/her partner in love in the face with police-strength pepper spray because shuize's partner wasn't doing what shuize wanted him/her to do.

Shuize is arrested for domestic abuse.

Shuize to police: "It wasn't violence and she/he was asking for it".
 
JihadJane said:
Shuize sprays his/her partner in love in the face with police-strength pepper spray because shuize's partner wasn't doing what shuize wanted him/her to do.

Shuize is arrested for domestic abuse.

Shuize to police: "It wasn't violence and she/he was asking for it".
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I thought about to explaining it, then I realized you probably don't believe police should exist at all.
 
JihadJane said:
Shuize sprays his/her partner in love in the face with police-strength pepper spray because shuize's partner wasn't doing what shuize wanted him/her to do.

Shuize is arrested for domestic abuse.

Shuize to police: "It wasn't violence and she/he was asking for it".
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Shuize, awesome though he is, is not authorized to issue orders which would justify the use of pepper-spray for failure to follow his well-reasoned and logical requests. The world is worse for it, of course, but that's just the way it is.
 
Taarkin said:
They're turning an abandoned building into a homeless shelter; somebody more concerned with making accurate statements instead of smearing the opposition might say something like "Goodbye fire hazard".
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Yeah, sure they are. It will cost tens of thousands of dollars to put that place back together, much more if they really wish it to become a homeless shelter in compliance with applicable building codes and city ordinances.

They will need to hire an architect, possibly a structural engineer, to make drawings and submit their rehab plan for approval, obtain building permits, purchase liability insurance, etc etc.

I predict they will do none of these things.
 
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Taarkin said:
This doesn't back up your assertion that "setting up the camps on campus was a direct challenge to authority for its own sake, not for any advancement of the OWS cause".
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Goodness, you really are not up to date on this whole UC Davis thing, eh?

Lets take a lot at something that happened on the 14th at Berkeley.

“It is unfortunate that some protesters chose to obstruct the police by linking arms and forming a human chain to prevent the police from gaining access to the tents,” Birgeneau said in the statement. “This is not non-violent civil disobedience.”

Birgeneau retracted this statement on Nov. 14 in a second all-campus email in which the chancellor said he was out of the country at the time and had not seen footage of the police brutality when he sent the initial email.
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Fair enough, opinions are opinions, but Birgeneau goes on to say,

A lot of protesters have shifted their attention from their original goals to that of the police violence,” Weiss said. “Obviously, these acts need to be addressed and dealt with, but I think that it’s also important to keep in mind that, as students of the UC system, budget cuts and tuition increases directly affect us, and that message needs to remain strong within the protest.
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UC Davis students showed solidarity with Berkeley students that Tuesday by squatting in Mrak hall and eventually setting up their own encampment in order to bait cops to respond in a similar fashion.
 
shuize said:
Shuize, awesome though he is, is not authorized to issue orders which would justify the use of pepper-spray for failure to follow his well-reasoned and logical requests. The world is worse for it, of course, but that's just the way it is.
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Read the thread (or failing that, use your brain): violence that is legally or morally justified IS STILL VIOLENCE.
 
Sounds like OWS:

[It] may well rank as one of the significant political and sociological events of the age. . . [T]he revolution it preaches, implicitly or explicitly, is essentially moral; it is the proclamation of a new set of values. . . With a surprising ease and a cool sense of authority, the children of plenty have voiced an intention to live by a different ethical standard than their parents accepted. The pleasure principle has been elevated over the Puritan ethic of work... Personal freedom in the midst of squalor is more liberating than social conformity with the trappings of wealth. Now that youth takes abundance for granted, it can afford to reject materialism.
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But it's Time Magazine, gushing over Woodstock. And we all know that Woodstock changed the world forever.
 
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