Occupy Wall Street better defend its identity

[bookitty]

I have a question for you. Let's say that the occupiers can't be blamed for any of these societal ills, and I don't disagree with that assertion, with that in mind do you honestly believe that the encampments do not constitute a health and safety hazard?

It seems to me that the encampments are creating little more than a tiny ghetto, bringing drugs and crime with them. I agree that something needs to be done about those problems, in general, yet I don't see why this means we should allow the occupiers to remain firmly seated where they are.

I will answer this question as honestly as I can. Hopefully, people will remember that my experience is limited to part-time activism within one city.

First off, the health hazard. Yes, at my local occupy there are many, many people in close quarters with less-than-ideal sanitation. For all of that, it is surprisingly clean. The zero-waste committee is large and very dedicated. They are constantly moving through the park picking up trash, sorting it into garbage, which is picked up by the city; recyclables, which are sold; and compost which is gather by a number of different community gardens. This is in addition to the campers own efforts.

Porta potties suck but at least the ones at OLA are cleaned on a regular basis by volunteers. There is one single bathroom in a city-owned building across the street. It has a large sink and one toilet. The line for that is long and moves very slowly. It is also cleaned by volunteers. A hotel nearby has rented one room to the occupiers for the use of showers. You go, get the key, a towel and have 45 minutes. I worked the kitchen. We had someone posted at the hand-cleaning station. Hands must be washed before you can get into line to eat. The volunteers who prepare food offsite at donated kitchens have been certified at OLA's expense. (I've heard that two of these were recently homeless vets who now have something to put on a job app but that is anecdotal and can't be confirmed.)

There is no smell of urine and I haven't seen any random dudes pissing on the wall. (Which is weird because I see this at outdoor venues all the time.)

These techniques are mostly borrowed from OWS and have become fairly standard in large camps.

On to drugs and booze. We're LA, medical marijuana is legal here and yes, it's a joke. The number of card-carrying potheads in this city is huge. There was a short while when the smell of pot was present. That was discussed and after a few days, the encampment agreed to become drug-free. Adherence to this is not 100% but the smell of pot is gone, at least during the day.

Crime at OLA has been mostly the occasional theft, a mentally ill person losing it, occasional bouts of fisticuffs between young guys who are bored and recently, people who claimed to be from Oakland. They mocked OLA's peaceful relationship with the police, tried to inspire violence, vandalized a fountain and came up with the brilliant plan of setting up tents on private BofA property away from OLA. Personally, I think they're just misguided idiots with delusions of grandeur but their return to Oakland is no loss for OLA.

 

[Taarkin]

OLA's porta potties are some of the least terrible ones I have ever had the misfortune of using.

 

[Virus]

OWS driver arrested for possession of firearm and reckless driving. (He was driving with his truck loaded up with people)

Plus a list of other "business as usual" crimes:

The Occupy Wall Street protest could have been one bad temper away from turning lethal.

Cops busted a man from Youngstown, Ohio this weekend for driving around the OWS protest and Lower Manhattan with an unregistered gun.

Law enforcement said Joshua Fellows, 32, had a .45-calibre handgun and 32 rounds of ammunition in a truck he’d rented in North Carolina.

Fellows was originally busted on Thursday at 12:40 p.m. at Broadway and Exchange Place on a reckless driving charge after cops saw up to 40 people jumping in and out of the Budget rental truck

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/..._arrests_2Ouk2G4BfhM3YnQo5lLuMM#ixzz1eInk2n6N

 

[Neally]

I agree; a police officer violently assaulting on nonviolent protesters is a good example of the strong ruling the weak.

Your continued ignoring of the explanation of the police action in this situation and why it was the best choice of responses is noted. Plugging your ears and yelling "la la la" is not a discussion. Carry on with your blissful ignorance.

 

[bookitty]

Your continued ignoring of the explanation of the police action in this situation and why it was the best choice of responses is noted. Plugging your ears and yelling "la la la" is not a discussion. Carry on with your blissful ignorance.

A better response would have been to talk to the protestors and see if solutions other than riot squad were applicable on a campus that prides itself on civility and forward thinking.

 

[bookitty]

OWS driver arrested for possession of firearm and reckless driving. (He was driving with his truck loaded up with people)

Plus a list of other "business as usual" crimes:

So you ignored everything I wrote about individual actions and then linked to the Post? Don't get me wrong, the hysterical hyperbole of

The Occupy Wall Street protest could have been one bad temper away from turning lethal.

is pretty funny.

 

[Taarkin]

Your continued ignoring of the explanation of the police action in this situation and why it was the best choice of responses is noted. Plugging your ears and yelling "la la la" is not a discussion. Carry on with your blissful ignorance.

Nah I just disagree with the assertion that blasting nonviolent protesters in the face was the best possible reaction to their noncompliance.

 

[Virus]

So you ignored everything I wrote about individual actions and then linked to the Post? Don't get me wrong, the hysterical hyperbole of
is pretty funny.

It's not that funny in light of the murder and all the violent assaults associated with these camps.

 

[Robrob]

OWS driver arrested for possession of firearm and reckless driving. (He was driving with his truck loaded up with people)

Plus a list of other "business as usual" crimes:

Out of curiosity, how many other (non-OWS) people in NYC were arrested for the same crime in that 24 hour period? Do you know how to figure percentages?

...all you hear about from Occupy Oakland is "Iraqi Vet" Scott Olsen, who was "shot in the head by the police!!1" Except, it seems, was probably struck by a bottle or rock thrown by the other Occupiers, and if anything struck him in the head, it was a tear gas canister. I'm not sure how he could be "unresponsive" and texting at the same time.

Worst spin ever. Your claim is 1) he was not "struck in the head" or 2) that he was hit by an OWS bottle or rock, or 3) that he was hit but by a tear gas canister.

Why not throw in 4) space aliens just to cover all bases?

Not to mention the near impossibility of him "texting" while holding up a cell phone at arm's reach with his other hand on his forehead?

Honestly, you hurt your cause more than you help it.

 

[shuize]

I just noticed I made Taarkin's signature line.

That's a first for me. Neat.

 

[bookitty]

It's not that funny in light of the murder and all the violent assaults associated with these camps.

Yes, there were incidents because thousands of people got together in over 1000 cities worldwide and (...you had really better sit down for this, it will obviously blow your mind) not all of them were nice.

I hope you were able to deal with that information. For the record, I don't normally put people on ignore simply for being dense but there's some types of thick that mere words can't penetrate.

 

[Graham2001]

What has to be remembered is this. Anyone can be a member of OWS. Unless of course they later do something that might embarrass the movement in which case they were never, ever a member.

 

[JihadJane]

What has to be remembered is this. Anyone can be a member of OWS. Unless of course they later do something that might embarrass the movement in which case they were never, ever a member.

I guess this kind of post is a developmental advance, intellectually speaking, on simply calling them all "Occutards".

I'm not sure how you got that out of what I posted, JJ, but whatever floats your boat.

And, as I posted in another thread, my wife is a veteran of many 60's antiwar protests, and she thinks the OWS "movement" is the most horse**** protest she has ever seen. As she so gently put it:

Argumentum ad verecundiam.

 

[WildCat]

What has to be remembered is this. Anyone can be a member of OWS. Unless of course they later do something that might embarrass the movement in which case they were never, ever a member.

Yep, they're happy to have anyone at all there so they can inflate their support, but as soon as someone acts like an asshat they deny they were ever part of OWS.

It's called having it both ways.

 

[leftysergeant]

The screenshot seems to be of a video taken some time after the injury, as the blood has dried. Also, if you are taking a photo of someone, you don't point the camera outward.

Wrong.

I won't pretend the website isn't biased. It is. But here's another shot from a wider angle, where Olsen is clearly holding the phone.

Somewhere around here we have a picture of John McCain reaching to fondle Obama's ass. You got live-action video of Olsen actually texting?

And the reporting of the Scott Olsen incident is pretty much just propaganda from top to bottom, especially since nearly every post or news item not from a mainstream news source headlines it almost identically to "Iraqi Veteran shot in Head" when in fact there is serious question as to whether he was actually hit by a fired projectile, much less one coming from the cops.

No question in my mind. He was hit in the face and he was right next to the barricade.

And Sam Seder showed videos of the grenade that some sorry, worthless, ill-trained, dumber-than-a-rock cop threw at the people who tried to help Olsen. It was a damned flashbang.

We are seeing a felony here. That cop needs to spend some time in general population at a state prison. He is not fit to ever posess a firearm again in his life.

 

[Taarkin]

I just noticed I made Taarkin's signature line.

That's a first for me. Neat.

Keep ignoring my response and question, maybe people will magically forget your question dodging.

 

[Neally]

A better response would have been to talk to the protestors and see if solutions other than riot squad were applicable on a campus that prides itself on civility and forward thinking.

They were told to leave. They were committed to getting arrested as an act of civil disobedience. Unfortunately for them, they didn't take the time to understand how police routinely handle compliance when they choose to lock themselves together.

Nah I just disagree with the assertion that blasting nonviolent protesters in the face was the best possible reaction to their noncompliance.

Well then you ought to do a little consulting with the police departments, since they've considered other alternatives and have decided that pepper spray is the least lethal, best option.

 

[Taarkin]

Well then you ought to do a little consulting with the police departments, since they've considered other alternatives and have decided that pepper spray is the least lethal, best option.

Silly me I forgot that police decisions are always correct.
Really, if you can't imagine a less-bad response to those protesters you have the critical thinking skills of a gibbon.

 

[Neally]

Silly me I forgot that police decisions are always correct.

In this particular case, they followed proper procedures and despite the histrionics, the outcome was the best one given the alternatives.

Really, if you can't imagine a less-bad response to those protesters you have the critical thinking skills of a gibbon.

Do tell, given the fact that the police had to clear the protesters out of the area, the protesters were committed to getting arrested, and that they were locked together and resisted arrest. Here's your chance, police departments would be happy to use a new technique. So share your vast experience in law enforcement and crowd control.

We're waiting.

 

[Taarkin]

In this particular case, they followed proper procedures and despite the histrionics, the outcome was the best one given the alternatives.

'Following procedure' is not the same thing as 'being right'.


Well the first thing that pops into my mind is to let them sit there; some dudes sitting on a sidewalk is less bad than blasting a bunch of people in the face, sending one to the hospital.
Another is to just attack some of them, disrupting the chain so officers can nab the others.