How many weeks until another "Kent State"

[MaGZ]

OWS protests haven’t even came close to the riots of the 60s. There will be no Kent State or Chicago ‘68 police riot. Tensions are nowhere near the boiling point.

 

[applecorped]

Shouldn't this thread be in the humor section?

 

[theprestige]

You know, I've heard "it can't happen here" quite a lot, and I no longer believe it.

Maybe you've heard it, but it's not what I said.

I said it can happen here, that it can be made to happen here, and that when it does happen it will probably be because somebody made it happen.

 

[adams101]

OWS protests haven’t even came close to the riots of the 60s. There will be no Kent State or Chicago ‘68 police riot. Tensions are nowhere near the boiling point.

Just wait until they actually start to make the necessary cuts to the debt creation. The global bankers and the rest of our creditors are doing everything they can to let us know the credit is going to get cut off if we can't make the cuts ourselves. Our politicians and the American people refuse to head the warnings.

The federal government is buying the people from creating civil unrest by putting 45 million on food stamps, MediCal and other methods of federal support. This method of holding off the chaos cannot be sustained in anywhere close to these volumes. Because of the amount of current federal debt they are unwilling to cut it is obvious there is a major financial change in the works. Exactly how this is going to be executed is unclear but it is coming. They will at the very least do a massive devaluation of the Federal Reserve Note and Euro but it probably has to go way beyond that.

You will soon see the boiling point you spoke of. They can't buy the majority of the US citizens who need decent jobs with chump change for long. Either the economy makes a massive positive change very quickly and the government makes huge cuts to all its programs or there will be civil unrest.

Which do you see happening? A bunch of riot gear and Gestapo training is way cheaper than making a trillion in cuts.

 

[bookitty]

As most know, I'm a police officer and I have been involved in potentially-violent demonstrations.
I must admit that some of the things I've seen coming out of the OWS protests are not along the lines of the training I've received and I am rather appalled that while the state department is screaming bloody murder about the violent repression of peaceful protest elsewhere in the world, the same thing is going on here.
Oh, we're not firing live ammunition into crowds, but much of the response has been over the top.

I don't think we're at Kent State level yet... As noted, that was a National Guard unit and one poorly-chosen for the task. Undertrained and exhausted by most accounts.
A shock to the entire nation that no one wants to repeat.

Handling large-crowd situations can be really, seriously difficult. A peaceful group can turn to a mob in a second. Sometimes, the precipitating event isn't even an event; a simple rumor will be sufficient.
As well, there are occasionally agitators that deliberately provoke or attack police in order to draw a film-able response. These agitators may not even be involved in the protest; by all accounts the recent violence in Portland was caused by groups of "anarchist" types who had shown up to join the fun and stir things up.

Personally, I don't like the way these things are going, on either side. I sympathize with the OWS protesters, but I think they are going to have to go political to accomplish anything. The protests seem to be drawing a lot of sympathy but a lot of flack as well.. Much as was the case back in the 60s.

Thank you. It's nice to see a fair assessment.

Have you seen this interview with one of the cops outed as undercover at Occupy Oakland? It's powerful stuff.

http://vimeo.com/31830746

 

[bikerdruid]

In this day and age, I think the only way another "Kent State" could happen would be if it were engineered to happen by the protestors.

wow...this post shows a severe disconnect from reality.

 

[Professor Yaffle]

Everyone should make sure they keep their video cameras/phones handy:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/video/2009/apr/07/g20-police-assault-video

 

[Ziggurat]

Pay attention. Some idiot cop already sent a Marine Corps combat veteran to the hospital with a fractured skull by firing a high-velocity tear gas grenade into Occupy Oakland.

Somebody needs a suppository to remove a large round object from his lower digestive tract.

I thought you said the tear gas canister hit him in the head.

 

[AlBell]

When cold weather gets here, water cannons & firehoses should be effective at dispersing folks.

 

[Magyar]

At this point it could not happen until both Facebook and Twitter go down for at least a week. The focus of the college civil unrest would be to get Facebook and Twitter back up and nothing to do with the country going to hell in a hand basket.

The current generation is politically worthless. They did nothing on the meltdown, nothing on no Congressional investigations, nothing on the bailouts, nothing on the the 3 undeclared, unfunded wars for corporate profits, nothing on the FED shoving $16 trillion out the back door to Europe between 2009 and 2010, as well as no federal budget cuts. They also did nothing when all the deficit junkies reelected all the same incumbents that orchestrated, executed and covered up the meltdown. Oh and a 2074 page ObamaCare bill nobody wanted that will take 10 years to even figure out what is in it. I could go on and on but they are politically lobotomized.

I mean what is this generation waiting for? If a dictator arose in this mess they would all just start building pyramids as long as they could keep their Iphones with unlimited text. Absolutely inexcusable.

I have to agree with Adam101 here. The place I work is a strange mix of 45+ and a bunch of 20somethings. and while the 20 somethings are technically savy they are socially and politically illiterate zombies.

They on mass lack the willingness and consciousness of the 20somethings of the 60s, but I guess that the draft had a lot to do with that.

All that said the fact still remains that there is enough unrest and dislike for the status Que that a bunch of unorganized people still managed to get out there.

Couple that with the obvious disconnect from the realities of the average middle class 20 to 40 somethings as evidenced by some of the posts here as well as comments from the likes of knewt and others of the upper class, I do believe that it is very likely coming.


This article is a bit over the top - at this point anyway - but some parts of it like this are right on the mark

The historian Crane Brinton in his book “Anatomy of a Revolution” laid out the common route to revolution. The preconditions for successful revolution, Brinton argued, are discontent that affects nearly all social classes, widespread feelings of entrapment and despair, unfulfilled expectations, a unified solidarity in opposition to a tiny power elite, a refusal by scholars and thinkers to continue to defend the actions of the ruling class, an inability of government to respond to the basic needs of citizens, a steady loss of will within the power elite itself and defections from the inner circle, a crippling isolation that leaves the power elite without any allies or outside support and, finally, a financial crisis. Our corporate elite, as far as Brinton was concerned, has amply fulfilled these preconditions. But it is Brinton’s next observation that is most worth remembering. Revolutions always begin, he wrote, by making impossible demands that if the government met would mean the end of the old configurations of power.

I think this is where he goes off rail, I don't believe that we've really reached phase 2 yet.

The second stage, the one we have entered now, is the unsuccessful attempt by the power elite to quell the unrest and discontent through physical acts of repression.

But then again NOT a single person predicted what his happening in the middle east re arab spring and the time frame it's taking. I think that part of the reason that momentum will take longer in the US is because the myth that "it can't happen here" is so ingrained in the US psychee. I think that if EU keeps going they way it has been and China's R/E bubble bursts at the same time you will see blood on the street.


PS I didn't vote because there was no option for a realistic timeline. I think that there are 2 very distinct but real possibilities.
1) Obama gets re elected and the stupid brainwashed right - teatard, randtard and bachman following nutjobs will start a homeland terrorist cult the likes of the taliban - The faster possibility. I will say major multiple home grown terrorist attacks inside of a year after the election. ANY most mundane reaction by the govt to this will be inerpreted by the wacktards as evidence of Obama's muslim communist nazi leanings (just like it was with Wacko and Ruby ridge but a 100 fold)
2) Obama looses and the right will take it as a sign devine intervention and the will of the people to become 3rd world xian nation.
sever cuts will be implemented and vast number of middle class people will be very much affected.
major demonstrations inside of 2 years riots and possible revolution in 3-4 beased on the severe restrictions adn shootings by authorities.

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/this_is_what_revolution_looks_like_20111115/

 

[Cain]

Why didn't the Tea Party protesters suffer the wrath of the police? Is it because gun-loving middle-aged white guys are more peaceful?

 

[Muldur]

Pay attention. Some idiot cop already sent a Marine Corps combat veteran to the hospital with a fractured skull by firing a high-velocity tear gas grenade into Occupy Oakland.

Not just that:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=YxR8VHFvsl8 (man assaulted, woman punched in face)

http://current.com/news-and-politics/93544225_the-face-of-ows-84-year-old-pepper-sprayed.htm

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/cutline/occupy-wall-street-finally-gets-face-bloody-153643148.html

 

[Muldur]

As most know, I'm a police officer and I have been involved in potentially-violent demonstrations.
I must admit that some of the things I've seen coming out of the OWS protests are not along the lines of the training I've received and I am rather appalled that while the state department is screaming bloody murder about the violent repression of peaceful protest elsewhere in the world, the same thing is going on here.
Oh, we're not firing live ammunition into crowds, but much of the response has been over the top.

I don't think we're at Kent State level yet... As noted, that was a National Guard unit and one poorly-chosen for the task. Undertrained and exhausted by most accounts.
A shock to the entire nation that no one wants to repeat.

Handling large-crowd situations can be really, seriously difficult. A peaceful group can turn to a mob in a second. Sometimes, the precipitating event isn't even an event; a simple rumor will be sufficient.
As well, there are occasionally agitators that deliberately provoke or attack police in order to draw a film-able response. These agitators may not even be involved in the protest; by all accounts the recent violence in Portland was caused by groups of "anarchist" types who had shown up to join the fun and stir things up.

Personally, I don't like the way these things are going, on either side. I sympathize with the OWS protesters, but I think they are going to have to go political to accomplish anything. The protests seem to be drawing a lot of sympathy but a lot of flack as well.. Much as was the case back in the 60s.

Would you agree that the situation is being exacerbated by the talking heads (Beck, Hannity, Levin, etc) who are systematically attempting to dehumanize the Occupiers? And by comments like this from Frank Miller:

The “Occupy” movement, whether displaying itself on Wall Street or in the streets of Oakland (which has, with unspeakable cowardice, embraced it) is anything but an exercise of our blessed First Amendment. “Occupy” is nothing but a pack of louts, thieves, and rapists, an unruly mob, fed by Woodstock-era nostalgia and putrid false righteousness. These clowns can do nothing but harm America.

“Occupy” is nothing short of a clumsy, poorly-expressed attempt at anarchy, to the extent that the “movement” – HAH! Some “movement”, except if the word “bowel” is attached - is anything more than an ugly fashion statement by a bunch of iPhone, iPad wielding spoiled brats who should stop getting in the way of working people and find jobs for themselves.

This is no popular uprising. This is garbage. And goodness knows they’re spewing their garbage – both politically and physically – every which way they can find.

Wake up, pond scum...

http://frankmillerink.com/

 

[Muldur]

To some extent. However, bringing in out-of-county guard from another part of the state with (then strongly different) politics was part of the problem. One could argue it was an accident.

That's a classic facist/totalitarian tactic. China did it at Tiananmen Square: brought in troops from the provinces (who hate city dwellers) because the dictators feared that troops from the urban areas would be too sympathetic to the students.

 

[Muldur]

I have to agree with Adam101 here. The place I work is a strange mix of 45+ and a bunch of 20somethings. and while the 20 somethings are technically savy they are socially and politically illiterate zombies.
*snip rest for space*

I think the key that you overlook was this part of the article's statement:

a unified solidarity in opposition to a tiny power elite

The opposition is nowhere near "unified solidarity". It is, at best, a semi-organized amorphous coalition of factions, each with it's own agenda. It lacks significant central authority, structure and discipline. As such, it is ineffective.

Get back to me when the OWS movement starts looking less like a half-hearted mob and more like the 60s Civil Rights movement.

(For the record, I support many of the OWS positions. I just don't think the movement itself is that effective.

 

[leftysergeant]

I thought you said the tear gas canister hit him in the head.

Not talking about the Marine. The cop needs a steel suppository. Bad police work. The chief should be off the force LAST WEEK.

I remember a race riot in the bay area during the Vietnam protests because some dirtbag cop fire a grenade into a bar and killed a Chicano man who was sitting there having a beer.

Are the cops trying to show us that they are indifferent to human life so that people will be afraid of them? Bad strategy.

 

[jj]

OWS protests haven’t even came close to the riots of the 60s. There will be no Kent State or Chicago ‘68 police riot. Tensions are nowhere near the boiling point.

You obviously don't live on a college campus. Sorry. Well if you do, it's an atypical campus.

 

[Bikewer]

The reaction to the OWS protests by "the right" have been pretty nasty. Talking against rampant capitalism is evidently akin to treason in some circles.
Of course, these same talking heads still go on about "taking America back" from Obama...

Cain was utterly dismissive of the protests, for instance. Of course, he's dismissive of a lot of things... I fear he's rapidly becoming a joke candidate.

 

[jj]

Because you're all too eager to overreact.

Sorry, I go on the evidence, not on some kind of bland assurance that nothing can go wrong, go wrong, go wrong, go wrong ...

 

[bikerdruid]

Would you agree that the situation is being exacerbated by the talking heads (Beck, Hannity, Levin, etc) who are systematically attempting to dehumanize the Occupiers? And by comments like this from Frank Miller:

never heard of frank miller....first impression...pompous prick.....am i close?