Occupy Wall Street better defend its identity

Status
Not open for further replies.
oer9x.jpg
 
Interview with one of the pepper spray recipients:

We were never warned that we were going to be pepper-sprayed.

Lt. Pike walked up to my friend, and I am told that he said, "Move or we're going to shoot you."
Click to expand...

So it would have been okay if they'd been shot, because they were warned about that.

Pretty early on, before noon we got a letter from chancellor Katehi to please remove our tents, citing health and safety reasons, but not saying what those reasons are.

We took the letter, and replied more or less: look, we understand we're in violation of the camping code. But we believe that this is superseded by our first amendment rights.
Click to expand...

You "believe" that because you haven't taken Con Law and you've still got a mind full of mush.

A collective decision was made on the fly to just sit in a circle arms linked legs crossed, with police officers and "prisoners" in the middle because we didn't want them arresting only 3 of us. It wasn't fair that 50 of us were there, and only a few arrested who hadn't volunteered to be arrested. There was still one walkway open that the police were going to use to walk the arrestees out. I saw some friends of mine sit down there, and they were my friends, so I joined them. We linked arms, legs crossed.
Click to expand...

See, they decided to be arrested. But they linked arms to make it as difficult as possible for the cops. Well, guess what? You make it tough for the man and he's going to make it tough for you.
 
bookitty said:
I watched the lead up to that moment live (Oh the wonders of the interwebs!) For hours the students has surrounded the chancellor's building, asking that Chancellor Katehi explain why the students were pepper-sprayed. They were not aggressive but as the crowds grew, there was some goofing off, a few mic-check'd calls for resignation and a on off-key version of Bohemian Rhapsody. Reports (unsubstantiated) went out that Katehi was afraid to leave.

The student's response was to immediately initiate a mic check explaining that they were there in peace, that they would not harm Katehi, and would not harm any private property. Word went out that Katehi would be walking to her car. Another round of discussion ended when a voice in the crowd proposed that all students sit and stay quiet to show "That we are the peaceful ones!"

2 minutes later Katehi walked in dead silence past hundreds of students seated silently to either side of her. It was surreal and quite beautiful.
Click to expand...

And?
 
Neally said:
Eye of the beholder. Rather boring actually.
Click to expand...

The contrast between the students five minutes before and then during the walk really did make it.

It is not easy to sit silently to support your cause. Especially when you've been in a crowd of like-minded people for hours.
 
dc1971 said:
Yet it wouldn't be as expensive if America had high speed rail! ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
Click to expand...
Is this supposed to be a rebuttal?

And I had no idea that better wages, benefits, and working conditions was a right-wing position. And apparently fighting to reduce wages and benefits, and for bad working conditions is what OWS is protesting for?
 
Brainster said:
ftfy.
Click to expand...

There was no property damage to the hall and no-one was injured by students. But if you see it as a mob, then you must give some credit to the students who turned away from the mob mentality in order to sit quietly.

Do you think that would have happened at the Penn State riots?
 
dc1971 said:
Calling illegals pickers now... oh how quaint!

Why not just call them COTTON PICKERS, eh?
Click to expand...
What the hell? I was calling the people who pick fresh fruits and vegetables pickers.

Machines pick cotton now, and ironically the same arguments being used by those arguing we have to keep wages and benefits low for ag workers, and working conditions poor, are exactly what the argument was for slavery 150 years ago. No doubt you'd have been arguing for slavery had you lived back then.
 
Alt+F4 said:
Wow! I did the exact same thing last night! So any evidence that she ordered or even knew about the pepper spraying, or is this just another case of demanding "bad people" be thrown into jail because they are "bad"?
Click to expand...
You can't have a revolution without kangaroo courts.
 
bookitty said:
I watched the lead up to that moment live (Oh the wonders of the interwebs!) For hours the students has surrounded the chancellor's building, asking that Chancellor Katehi explain why the students were pepper-sprayed.
Click to expand...
Why would Katehi know why the pepper spray was used? Has an investigation been completed yet?
 
From the "you've gotta read past the headline" department:

Man throws aluminum water bottle at UC Berkeley student’s face
Click to expand...

Doubtless a 1 percenter expressing rage at a peaceful protestor? A cop who didn't have his pepper spray handy?

No:

At about 5:09 p.m., the female student was approached by a man at “the northeast exterior of the Haas Pavilion,” according to a UCPD crime alert. The man asked the suspect if she was going to the protest on Sproul Plaza, and when the victim answered “no,” the suspect yelled at her.

“People like you are the reason that California is in debt,” he said, according to the crime alert.

The suspect then threw a full aluminum water bottle at the victim’s face.
Click to expand...
 
bookitty said:
For hours the students has surrounded the chancellor's building, asking that Chancellor Katehi explain why the students were pepper-sprayed.
Click to expand...
Really? They are that retarded? They got sprayed because they resisted arrest, wouldn't move, locked themselves together making it hard to separate and haul away.
 
As I mentioned before, the use of pepper spray is the better choice than trying to pry apart the protesters. In fact it is a standard compliance tool in these situations.
Charles J. Kelly, a former Baltimore Police Department lieutenant who wrote the department's use of force guidelines, said pepper spray is a "compliance tool" that can be used on subjects who do not resist, and is preferable to simply lifting protesters.

"When you start picking up human bodies, you risk hurting them," Kelly said. "Bodies don't have handles on them."

"What I'm looking at is fairly standard police procedure," Kelly said.
Click to expand...
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57328362/officers-in-pepper-spray-incident-put-on-leave/

If protesters are going to engage in civil disobedience they best learn the rules of engagement, and spare everyone the faux outrage when the rules are followed.
 
bookitty said:
Another round of discussion ended when a voice in the crowd proposed that all students sit and stay quiet to show "That we are the peaceful ones!"

2 minutes later Katehi walked in dead silence past hundreds of students seated silently to either side of her. It was surreal and quite beautiful.
Click to expand...
B...but the protesters are histrionic, hysterical attention whores!

Brainster said:
See, they decided to be arrested. But they linked arms to make it as difficult as possible for the cops. Well, guess what? You make it tough for the man and he's going to make it tough for you.
Click to expand...
Did the police try any method besides threatening them and making a halfhearted tug on a protester's arm?
 
Taarkin said:
Did the police try any method besides threatening them and making a halfhearted tug on a protester's arm?
Click to expand...
How much heart should the police have put into tugging on a protester's arm? A gentle tug is clearly not enough, in your opinion. Should it have been dislocated?
 
Taarkin said:
Did the police try any method besides threatening them and making a halfhearted tug on a protester's arm?
Click to expand...
You're not paying attention. This is not like the first time this type of situation has had to be dealt with by the police. Police didn't have to "try" things on the fly to try to figure how to handle this. They know that trying to pry people apart is potentially more harmful than spraying them, that's why the standard procedure is to use spray to get them to comply.
 
http://boingboing.net/2011/11/20/ucdeyetwitness.html

First hand account from one of the students at UC Davis.

ETA: It is fairly obvious from the student's actions before (offering to remove tents for the grounds keepers, making sure that the sidewalk was clear, etc) and after (No rioting, no property damage, Katehi's silent walk) that some type of compromise between the protestors and the school might have been reached. Because Katehi had already let them stay, they may have been expecting more opportunity to discuss a peaceful solution.

Instead the school decided to send in the riot squad and Pike decided on heavy handed tactics.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom