JFK Conspiracy Theories: It Never Ends

[I Ratant]

I thought we were discussing the exit /entry wounds as opposed to the type of bullet?
Who cares what type of bullet it was?

.
The bullets LHOLN used to shoot JFK are termed jacketed round nose.
They look like this....
I picked these up at a gun show in Lancaster CA in 1996.
Both the 6.5mm and 7.35mm versions.
In the original as issued Italian Army form.
And I reloaded some empty 6.5mm shells with modern round nose bullets for my shooting tests, not wanting to shoot up the original 6.5mm ammo.
The 7.35mm stuff came about due to the experiences of the Italian army in Libya and Ethiopia, where the 6.5mm RN bullets would pass through the insurgents without doing enough wounding. The bullet will go through 26 inches of pine board...
The 7.35mm bullet is a composite of aluminum and lead, intended to tumble -inside- the target and leave a gaping wound on exiting.. much like the .223 bullet of the M-16/AR-15 rifles of today.

 

[Robert Prey]

.
The jacketed Carcano bullet has an open base. Lead particles were extruded from that as it passed from the rear to the front through the brain.
The impact on the rear of the skull distorted the shape of the bullet.
My friend Howard Donahue took those lead particles as being left by the .223 bullet fired by the Secret Service agent in the follow-up limosine.
Howard is a forensics expert.
His premise is wrong, and he's retracted it, but the lead debris trail is not unusual.

"Additionally, ballistics expert Howard Donahue has pointed out that it is highly unlikely that the 6.5 mm fragment could have come from a bullet fired from the alleged sniper's nest. Defenders of the x-rays speculate that the fragment "sheared off" from the bullet as the missile entered the skull. But Donahue observes that a bullet fired from the TSBD, and thus entering the skull at a downward angle, should have deposited a sheared-off fragment ABOVE the entrance point, not below it. He further notes that he has never heard off a fully metal-jacketed bullet shearing on impact (Menninger 68, 160). Detective Shaun Roach, an Australian forensics expert, agrees, saying, ". . . due to the inherent strength of the 6.5 mm Carcano jacket, I also believe that it would NOT shear off a fragment upon entering the head, then deposit that fragment on the outer table of the skull, either above or below the wound" (Livingstone, KILLING THE TRUTH, 57). In fact, forensic science knows of no case where a fully metal-jacketed bullet deposited a sheared-off fragment in the outer table of the skull after striking the skull.

Moreover, the alleged entrance hole in the x-rays, near which the 6.5 mm fragment appears, is a staggering four inches HIGHER than the entry point described in the autopsy report. It is extremely hard to believe that the autopsy pathologists mislocated this wound by a whopping four inches, especially since one of them, Dr. J. Thornton Boswell, in effect triangulated the wound to the external occipital protuberance (Livingstone, KILLING THE TRUTH, 129-130)."

http://karws.gso.uri.edu/jfk/the_critics/griffith/Problems_with_X-rays_and_photos.html

 

[Walter Ego]

This is hypocrisy on a level I've rarely seen. The audacity to accuse someone else of ducking questions combined with a claim that something can be clearly seen in a film that is previously claimed to be too blurry to see anything clearly. This is stunning.

Welcome to Robert World.

 

[Robert Prey]

Robert has also said the Z film is a Rorschach test allowing people to see what they want to see. So Robert can "see" Jackie Kennedy picking up a piece of JFK's brain from the trunk of the presidential limousine because he needs it to be there in order to prove his claim of a rear exit wound.

The actual Z film doesn't show any brain tissue or skull fragments on the trunk or on the back of the seat where Kennedy was sitting of course. Those of us not in Robert World cannot see what Robert can see.

That's not what Agent Hill said, either. "I noticed a portion of the President's head on the right rear side was missing...Part of his brain was gone. I saw part of his skull with hair on it lying on the seat...The right rear portion of his head was missing. It was lying on the rear seat of the car."
from: "Not In Your Lifetime" by Anthony Summers, P. 10

 

[EventHorizon]

That's not what Agent Hill said, either. "I noticed a portion of the President's head on the right rear side was missing...Part of his brain was gone. I saw part of his skull with hair on it lying on the seat...The right rear portion of his head was missing. It was lying on the rear seat of the car."
from: "Not In Your Lifetime" by Anthony Summers, P. 10

What does that have to do with the clarity of the Zapruder film?

 

[Robert Prey]

Why No Visible Exit Wound in the Z Film??????

Welcome to Robert World.

Why is there no visible exit wound in the Z film???/-- The question answered.

Pick and choose:

1. Because there was no exit wound in the back of the head.All of the doctors, nurses and attendants at Parkland simply lied about that as did the autopsy photographers and film developers. Also Doug Horne of the ARRB simply lied.

2. Because there was no exit wound in the back of the head. All of doctors, nurses and attendants at Parkland were simply mistaken, as well as the autopsy photographers and film developers. Also Doug Horne of the ARRB who was simply mistaken.

3. Because the Z film was just to blurry to show it.

4. Because the Z film, examined frame by frame leaves a whole lot of action missing, and the blow-out occurred between frames.

5. Because the Z film was altered by the conspirators, just like the Backyard photos.

Pick and choose, or add your own fantastical explanation. Or simply duck the question, again.

 

[Tomtomkent]

Robert. What evidence do you have that the parkland staff are less likely to be mistaken or lying than the autopsy?

The z film matches the autopsy.
The polaroid matches the autopsy.
Other witnesses match the autopsy.

Your own claim of a fragmenting bullet does not match the neat "entry wound".

 

[Walter Ego]

Why is there no visible exit wound in the Z film???/--

These was a small entrance wound on the back on Kennedy's head to small to be resolved by the tiny frame size of the 8mm Zapruter film. The exit wound was on the front of Kennedy's head as shown in the Z film. Both the entrance and exit wounds match the forensic descriptions from the web page that you yourself posted. Both wounds were confirmed by the Bethesda autopsy. The Z film is unaltered photographic evidence that invalidates your shot from the Grass Knoll theory.

 

[Tomtomkent]

Here is the uncropped version of the "deathstare" picture.
[NSFW]http://www.environmentalgraffiti.com/history/news-jfk-autopsies-and-conspiries-photos?image=7[/NSFW]

You will notice somethings that don't key with Roberts story.
1) The "entry wound" he has marked is a minor notch, where the skin has been peeled back by a much larger wound. An exit wound as described by his own source on exit wounds at the front top of the head. As described by the WC.
2) There appears to be no large exit wound at the back of the head.
3) None of the parkland doctors mentioned a large wound at the top front of the head. They all said it was at the back. Why were they nto accurate?
4) This wound does correspond with ejecta seen in the Z film.

Would you care to explain how these four observations fit with your story Robert?

 

[JohnG]

I'm still unclear as to why the conspirators went to all the trouble of setting up an innocent lone patsy whom the conspirators will claim shot the president from behind and six stories up but then position the actual gunman in front of the president at ground level? What would have happened to their carefully constructed "lone nut in the TSBD" narrative if the fatal shot had entered through the front of Kennedy's chest and remained lodged there, with no ambiguous exit wound to confuse self-styled medical examiners/ballistics experts? Were these conspirators just really stupid or was there some supposed "shock and awe/smoke and mirrors/mindgame" method to their madness? If it is their aim to make it not look like a conspiracy, why deliberately include variables that will make it look like a conspiracy?

 

[RoboTimbo]

I'm still unclear as to why the conspirators went to all the trouble of setting up an innocent lone patsy whom the conspirators will claim shot the president from behind and six stories up but then position the actual gunman in front of the president at ground level? What would have happened to their carefully constructed "lone nut in the TSBD" narrative if the fatal shot had entered through the front of Kennedy's chest and remained lodged there, with no ambiguous exit wound to confuse self-styled medical examiners/ballistics experts? Were these conspirators just really stupid or was there some supposed "shock and awe/smoke and mirrors/mindgame" method to their madness? If it is their aim to make it not look like a conspiracy, why deliberately include variables that will make it look like a conspiracy?

There's only one explanation that makes sense for that: They did it so that the people who would easily see though them would be made to look like incompetent fools so the sheeple would point and laugh at them and not believe the "real" story.

It seems to be working.

 

[Tomtomkent]

I'm still unclear as to why the conspirators went to all the trouble of setting up an innocent lone patsy whom the conspirators will claim shot the president from behind and six stories up but then position the actual gunman in front of the president at ground level? What would have happened to their carefully constructed "lone nut in the TSBD" narrative if the fatal shot had entered through the front of Kennedy's chest and remained lodged there, with no ambiguous exit wound to confuse self-styled medical examiners/ballistics experts? Were these conspirators just really stupid or was there some supposed "shock and awe/smoke and mirrors/mindgame" method to their madness? If it is their aim to make it not look like a conspiracy, why deliberately include variables that will make it look like a conspiracy?

Wait, did Rob not answer that? Like he was dodging the question of why? Gazooks.

 

[RoboTimbo]

All of the doctors, nurses and attendants at Parkland simply lied about that as did the autopsy photographers and film developers. Also Doug Horne of the ARRB simply lied.

2. Because there was no exit wound in the back of the head. All of doctors, nurses and attendants at Parkland were simply mistaken, as well as the autopsy photographers and film developers. Also Doug Horne of the ARRB who was simply mistaken.

You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.

 

[Robert Prey]

I'm still unclear as to why the conspirators went to all the trouble of setting up an innocent lone patsy whom the conspirators will claim shot the president from behind and six stories up but then position the actual gunman in front of the president at ground level? What would have happened to their carefully constructed "lone nut in the TSBD" narrative if the fatal shot had entered through the front of Kennedy's chest and remained lodged there, with no ambiguous exit wound to confuse self-styled medical examiners/ballistics experts? Were these conspirators just really stupid or was there some supposed "shock and awe/smoke and mirrors/mindgame" method to their madness? If it is their aim to make it not look like a conspiracy, why deliberately include variables that will make it look like a conspiracy?

There were actual gunman in the TSBD as well. And perhaps elsewhere. The team, originally set up to assassinate Castro, had as their strategy a triangular ambush to make sure the murder was successful.

 

[Robert Prey]

Robert. What evidence do you have that the parkland staff are less likely to be mistaken or lying than the autopsy?

The z film matches the autopsy.
The polaroid matches the autopsy.
Other witnesses match the autopsy.

Your own claim of a fragmenting bullet does not match the neat "entry wound".

In other words you choose to duck the question.

 

[Tomtomkent]

There were actual gunman in the TSBD as well. And perhaps elsewhere. The team, originally set up to assassinate Castro, had as their strategy a triangular ambush to make sure the murder was successful.

And how dos that negate the risk of a stray shot from the front compromising them? How does it answer the "why"?

 

[Robert Prey]

These was a small entrance wound on the back on Kennedy's head to small to be resolved by the tiny frame size of the 8mm Zapruter film. The exit wound was on the front of Kennedy's head as shown in the Z film. Both the entrance and exit wounds match the forensic descriptions from the web page that you yourself posted. Both wounds were confirmed by the Bethesda autopsy. The Z film is unaltered photographic evidence that invalidates your shot from the Grass Knoll theory.

In other words, you choose to duck the question, again.

 

[Tomtomkent]

In other words you choose to duck the question.

What question? That was not in response to a question. Those are questions you have yet to answer from several pages ago. By failing to answer you appear to be ducking... Ironic is it not?

 

[Robert Prey]

Here is the uncropped version of the "deathstare" picture.
[NSFW]http://www.environmentalgraffiti.com/history/news-jfk-autopsies-and-conspiries-photos?image=7[/NSFW]

You will notice somethings that don't key with Roberts story.
1) The "entry wound" he has marked is a minor notch, where the skin has been peeled back by a much larger wound. An exit wound as described by his own source on exit wounds at the front top of the head. As described by the WC.
2) There appears to be no large exit wound at the back of the head.
3) None of the parkland doctors mentioned a large wound at the top front of the head. They all said it was at the back. Why were they nto accurate?
4) This wound does correspond with ejecta seen in the Z film.

Would you care to explain how these four observations fit with your story Robert?

Would you care to explain why you have ducked the 5 part multiple choice question??? Again???

 

[RoboTimbo]

There were [an] actual gunman in the TSBD as well.

Good boy! Yes, Oswald was in the 6th floor of the TSBD and fired the three shots from his MC rifle. You'll have to explain what you mean by "as well", though.

And perhaps elsewhere.

Yeah, you're going to need evidence for that one.

The team, originally set up to assassinate Castro, had as their strategy a triangular ambush to make sure the murder was successful.

What team?

And why does the Zapruder film show the mass of ejecta coming out of the exit wound of the right front of JFK's head indicating a shot from, well, where we know it came from: Oswald.

Why do you continue to slink away from answering questions? Feet bothering you?