Occupy Wall Street better defend its identity

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The Central Scrutinizer said:
I'm sure you know, but just forgot to mention, that the 1st ammendment, like all ammendments, has limitations. We aren't free to assemble in your living room, for example.
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Are you sure about that limitations thing? I thought the First Amendment meant we could all show up in his living room and crap on his rug.
 
The Central Scrutinizer said:
I'm sure you know, but just forgot to mention, that the 1st ammendment, like all ammendments, has limitations. We aren't free to assemble in your living room, for example. Also, I can't speak for others, but for me, it's not bile. It's laughter.
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Yes, I understand that. I just don't see how a public park counts as my living room.

The neo-nazis shout and then go home. They don't camp out for a month. See the difference?
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No, not really, since for me the net result is the same if I want to go through the park during their shouting day.
 
richardm said:
Yes, I understand that. I just don't see how a public park counts as my living room.



No, not really, since for me the net result is the same if I want to go through the park during their shouting day.
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There is a mountain of case law on the subject. Which is why the Occutards are losing all their legal challenges.
 
bookitty said:
For two hours? By standing outside?

I am seriously puzzled. You are aware that we had a global financial crisis a few years back, yes? That this crisis impacted nearly every country, wiping out retirement funds, destroying home equity and other very nasty side-effects.

But all your ire is pointed at people who are protesting these effects because you don't like their style.
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Wiping out retirement funds that were created on an economic bubble.
Destroying over valued home equity created on an economic bubble
an unemployment for college graduates at under 5% in the US.

What style? It isn't about style... actually you are right. It is about style, but not about substance. This "movement" is perfect because it doesn't have set goals, set objectives or set leadership. Without those, it becomes the Seinfield of movements... a movement about nothing or about everything or about what you want it to be about.
 
Speaking of overly-educated, doughy, middle-aged guys, Alec Baldwin on what he learned from OWS:

Another example is that we have no high speed rail in this country. Typically, you fly or you drive. So airlines are free to tack on fees to remain profitable the way that oil companies are free to manipulate oil production, and thus the price of gasoline. You bailed out the airlines every time you did not demand more effective, intermediate range travel, i.e. high speed rail. You bailed out the oil companies every time you watched (were you watching?) as American troops went to Iraq to fight a war for oil. You bail out American business, and help them maintain an often false veneer of profitability, every time you send nearly every member of the current Congress back to Washington. Maintaining US corporate profitability is the single goal of this Congress. Because that is what the corporations who own the Congress paid for when they bought the Congress.

Everything I have put forth here, I have heard articulated from the Occupy Wall Street movement.
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OWS was all about teh hi-speed railz! And no war for oil!

ETA: Alec Baldwin's ad for Capital One:

 
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richardm said:
Yes, I understand that. I just don't see how a public park counts as my living room.
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the park in NYC? It isn't a public park. it is a privately owned space and has set hours of operation.

and even if it was a public park, the freedom of assembly has limits including when assembly becomes an issue of public health and welfare.

No, not really, since for me the net result is the same if I want to go through the park during their shouting day.
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Feel free to do it in the day, during operating hours. it is different if you are camping there for months, ******** and peeing on the trees/bushes, using drugs, disrupting local businesses and playing drums for hours on end disturbing the peace.
 
If you don't have a goal that can be capitulated to, how you can say "We've won!" and go home?
Or, as with extensive searches before boarding airliners, is indignant youth crapping in the street just something we should expect to live with from now on?
 
TruthersLie said:
the park in NYC? It isn't a public park. it is a privately owned space and has set hours of operation.

and even if it was a public park, the freedom of assembly has limits including when assembly becomes an issue of public health and welfare.
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Furthermore, regardless of your legal right to assembly, monopolizing a park and thus denying its use to everyone else is asshattery, plain and simple.
 
bookitty said:
As expected, the JREF forum is primarily anti-OWS which doesn't bother me. The forum population includes a high percentage of overly-educated, doughy, middle-aged guys and that tends to lean just slightly to the right. (That is also, incidentally, why I like posting here. Echo-chambers are very dull.)

As an occupier/activist I do have one question though - If the issues addressed by OWS* and various occupies are something that concern me, how else can I make my voice heard? This is not a facetious question. After using all the tools available to a citizen, I no longer have faith in any traditional aspect of our democratic system.
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You do have me pegged pretty well. Although I believe there is a larger percentage of overly-educated, doughy, middle-aged guys and that tend to lean to the left. (That is why I like to post here. Echo chambers are dull).

How else can I make my voice heard? This is not a facetious question. After using all the tools available to a citizen, I no longer have faith in any traditional aspect of our democratic system.
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Don't give up, start or joins groups with similar desires, organize protests, write letters etc. But you do not have to camp out in an environment that breeds danger to both the so called occupiers and people who reside and/or work in the area.
 
The Central Scrutinizer said:
I'm sure you know, but just forgot to mention, that the 1st ammendment, like all ammendments, has limitations. We aren't free to assemble in your living room, for example. Also, I can't speak for others, but for me, it's not bile. It's laughter.



The neo-nazis shout and then go home. They don't camp out for a month. See the difference?
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Would you have heard about OWS if they had gone home?

Can you tell me what non-OWS protest surrounded the White House this month, drawing 1000's of people? Or which day sees marches all over the world in solidarity for labor rights? Or where a police chief was forced to resign after a brutal crack-down on people protesting the WTO?
 
TruthersLie said:
the park in NYC? It isn't a public park. it is a privately owned space and has set hours of operation.

and even if it was a public park, the freedom of assembly has limits including when assembly becomes an issue of public health and welfare.



Feel free to do it in the day, during operating hours. it is different if you are camping there for months, ******** and peeing on the trees/bushes, using drugs, disrupting local businesses and playing drums for hours on end disturbing the peace.
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No, it is a privately owned park set on land that is subsidized by the taxpayers to the tune of $20 million.
http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20111031/REAL_ESTATE/111039989

Whose park? Our park!
 
bookitty said:
Would you have heard about OWS if they had gone home?
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Sure, assuming there was more than 3-4 of them. Enough to warrant coverage.

bookitty said:
Can you tell me what non-OWS protest surrounded the White House this month, drawing 1000's of people?
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I know there were people protesting the pipeline. But, there's pretty much some group protesting something everyday in that park across the street.

bookitty said:
Or which day sees marches all over the world in solidarity for labor rights?
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Labor Day in the US.

bookitty said:
Or where a police chief was forced to resign after a brutal crack-down on people protesting the WTO?
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I have no idea. Nor do I care. There are millions of things going on in the world on a daily basis that I don't know about or I ignore.
 
Brainster said:
OWS was all about teh hi-speed railz!
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Screw Baldwin and OWS. The US isn't a tiny European state; laying down consistent-quality high-speed rail coast to coast is prohibitively expensive. There's no reason that we couldn't instead focus on reinvesting in our mid-speed rail.

America's passenger trains, with their club cars and dining cars that serve actual chef-prepared food and sleeping accommodation cars represent an experience unique to American culture; it's something rare if not completely non-existent anywhere else in the world. I could never support scrapping it in favor of bullet trains that are essentially airliners that don't take off, with all those airliner-esque amenities like miniature sardine-can seats, contortionist-inspired restrooms and microwave cheese sandwiches.
 
bookitty said:
No, it is a privately owned park set on land that is subsidized by the taxpayers to the tune of $20 million.
http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20111031/REAL_ESTATE/111039989

Whose park? Our park!
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Our park assuming you pay something to NYC and not just OWS's park.
That is something that is annoying to people. OWS seemed to think it was their park and no else has a right to enjoy it.


Thought that number looked pretty high. The truth is
Tenants in One Liberty Plaza, the Brookfield Office Properties tower across the street from Zuccotti Park have received a total of $20.1 million in government subsidies, primarily since the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks,
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http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20111031/REAL_ESTATE/111039989#ixzz1dzNlsWCS
 
A moment of solidarity in San Diego for the guy who shot at the White House:



Yes, it's one idiot, but note that his request gets the respectful moment that he asked for.
 
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