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JFK Conspiracy Theories: It Never Ends

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Tomtomkent said:
Oh, and hey, just so you know, you can always go back and edit a post for a correction if you want. Just put "oops, forget this link" or what ever in the reason for editing. Nobody will hold it against you or anything, and is great for adding extra resources like the ones you found.

Nothing wrong with additional posts of course, but thought you might not have noticed how some of the other guys have been doing that.
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I hadn't posted 15 times yet, so just a cheap and cheesy way to be able to post a link. Hence forth the snicker.
 
vtbub said:
Soon as he proves his conspiracy, I'll overnight you a box of American Mars bars. Hope you aren't hungry.
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Hell no. I want the UK ones with Mr T yelling about having some nuts. What kind of guy do you take me for?
 
bynmdsue said:
So that's where he's been. Y'all wouldn't mind holding onto him for the forseeable future would you?
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He may introuce you to his friend...PAIN!

Seriously though, watching Mr T eat the doped burger every week and end up on the plain was like watching some CTers stare at the Z film and convince themselves it is wrong, so very very wrong.
 
Robert Prey said:
That is false. Dr. M. only made a mis-statment regarding left as versus right based on what some other doctor said where he though he saw some blood.. He has never wavered from his essential view that of a large blowout in the back of the head and a shot from the Grassy Knoll. And you and the Bug man know it. Time for a little honesty. It is, after all, a sin to tell a lie.
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So I guess Robert is going to apologize for lying about Vincent Bugliosi being insane and then lying again by denying he'd made such an accusation?

Actually, McClellan tried to pass off the blame for his mistaken identification of a wound to JFK's left temple onto Dr. Pepper Jenkins who was already in the trauma room treating Kennedy when he arrived.

Jenkins had his hands full, but nodded down to Kennedy’s head. He said, “Bob, there’s a wound there.” The head was covered in blood and blood clots, tiny collections of dark red mass. McClelland thought he meant there was a wound at the president’s left temple. Later that gesture would cause some confusion.

http://www.dmagazine.com/Home/2008/10/24/The_Day_Kennedy_Died.aspx
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Robert Prey said:
And the back of the head wound as described by all the Parkland Docs as dictated by Dr. McCelland: That is Evidence. Deal with it, if you can.

head2.gif
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Of course "all the Parkland docs" did not describe such a wound. All doctors except McClelland and Crenshaw who were actually in the trauma room and who thought they may have seen a rear wound later said they were confused or mistaken. That reduces Robert's "unimpeachable" witnesses who had medical degrees and actually examined JFK to two, both of whom later went on to promote conspiracy theories about the assassination.

Robert's wording in the above quote also seems to imply that McClelland was "dictating" the concensus of what the trauma room doctors observed. This is not true. Listen to McClellands own words, as recorded for a 2009 radio show, here. (He also talks about the misidentified wound and his conspiracy beliefs.)

That graphic of the gaping rear head wound that Robert linked is interesting too. It is from Josiah Thompson's 1967 book Six Seconds in Dallas and was approved by Dr. Robert McClelland as an accurate sketch of what he saw in the trauma room. Over a decade later, when McClelland first saw the Zapruter film, he thought it confirmed his belief that he saw a rear head wound in 1963.

[McClelland] wouldn’t feel confident in his initial assessment until 11 and a half years later, when he and his wife watched an episode of The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson. As the couple got ready for bed, Carson introduced his guest, a young, ambitious television host named Geraldo Rivera. Rivera had with him footage of the assassination previously unseen by the public, footage known simply as “the Zapruder film.” Shot by Abraham Zapruder, an immigrant from the Ukraine, the 8-millimeter Kodachrome movie shows the motorcade through the duration of the assassination. As McClelland watched it for the first time, he saw the back of the president’s head blasted out. He saw the president swayed “back and to the left,” a phrase later repeated ad nauseum in Oliver Stone’s JFK. McClelland was convinced he had been standing over an exit wound.

http://www.dmagazine.com/Home/2008/10/24/The_Day_Kennedy_Died.aspx
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But the Z film shows no such thing. In the Z frames below showing JFK's head after the fatal shot we can see no gaping wound as illustrated in the drawing approved by McClelland. The most we see on the back of JFK's head in the bottom right frame is not a large gaping "blasted out" exit wound but a small red circle which may be the entry wound. The Z film directly contradicts McClelland's "unimpeachable" testimony.

fullcmpuu0.jpg
 
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Walter Ego wrote:

All doctors except McClelland and Crenshaw who were actually in the trauma room and who thought they may have seen a rear wound later said they were confused or mistaken.

Then name them with source.
 
Robert Prey said:
Walter Ego wrote:

All doctors except McClelland and Crenshaw who were actually in the trauma room and who thought they may have seen a rear wound later said they were confused or mistaken.

Then name them with source.
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I already gave a source, Posner, p. 312. Posner actually went to Dallas and interviewed the Parkland doctors. Posner's book was published in 1993 and if he mischaracterized the doctor's statements they've had plenty of time to complain but none have done so.

Oh, that's right, Posner is a liar. If fact, he's such a liar he was discredited by the insane Vincent Bugliosi! :D

And for anyone who isn't Robert:

Note here how Robert can make bald assertions as if he was stating facts but everyone else must prove what they say with sources and citations. Robert is the clarion of undeniable truth but everyone else is on probation.
 
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Walter Ego said:
I already gave a source, Posner, p. 312. Posner actually went to Dallas and interviewed the Parkland doctors. Posner's book was published in 1993 and if he mischaracterized the doctor's statements they've had plenty of time to complain but none have done so.

Oh, that's right, Posner is a liar. If fact, he's such a liar he was discredited by the insane Vincent Bugliosi! :D

And for anyone who isn't Robert:

Note here how Robert can make mere assertions as if he was stating facts but everyone else must prove what they say with sources and citations. Robert is the clarion of undeniable truth but everyone else is on probation.
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Wonder what he thinks of the nine eyewitnesses to Tippitt's murder.
 
Robert Prey said:
Because you have a biased imagination. It shows a jet effect blur of blood and tissue of an entrance wound caused by a bullet shot from the front.
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No, really. Why does everyone in the world except the insane see the right front of JFK's head blow out because of the exit wound? Do you think the back of his head blows out and motion blur makes it look like the right front?







Really?
 
vtbub said:
Wonder what he thinks of the nine eyewitnesses to Tippitt's murder.
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That they were lying. Just like the DPD was lying and the doctors who did the Bethesda autopsy were lying and the Warren Commission was lying and anyone who doesn't promote Robert's conspiracy theories is lying. Robert is the go-to man for the honest truth about JFK's death.

If fact, I don't see why we spent all that time, money and effort investigating the assassination. We could have just gone to Robert and he would have straightened everything out in a few minutes.
 
Walter Ego said:
If fact, I don't see why we spent all that time, money and effort investigating the assassination. We could have just gone to Robert and he would have straightened everything out in a few minutes.
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That's not really true.

As of yet, the only claim he has really made is that the head shot came from the front.

While he's been presented with a ton of first hand evidence, he has waved it all away without giving anything really away about what he felt happened that afternoon. Now, while his own chatter has been debunked by his own claims:

He has not given his theory on what Oswald did during the Kennedy shooting.

He has not given any theory as to what happened in the Tippitt shooting.

He's alluded to a meeting with this Odio person, but has not really related on how it fits with the shooting or it was/wasn't Oswald.

He has claimed that the backyard pictures were faked.

He has yet to offer any theory on the actual Kennedy shooting except that the fatal shot came from the front.

Lots of stuff on altered autopsies/photos/bodies, but no hard information on just who did it outside of 'them'.

We haven't even gotten to Jack Ruby yet.


For all the things we've read he doesn't believe in, we have nearly nothing yet onto what he believes.
 
Robert Shoots Himself In The Foot... Again!

EventHorizon said:
Does the jet effect of blood and tissue normally move towards the source of the gunfire?
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Don't take anything Robert posts at face value. You have to go back several pages but the jet effect is something Robert pulled out of his own ass to unhoist himself from his own petard.

Some background: Robert posted a forensic description of the nature of entrance and exit wounds, the former being small and round, the latter being large and jagged. His contention is that JFK was shot in the right front of his head from a bullet coming from the area of the Grassy Knoll.

When it was pointed out that the Zapruter film, given the forensic description that Robert himself posted, showed the exact opposite, he had to scramble and came up with the jet effect... which as it turns out is the exact opposite of what Robert thinks it is.

The jet effect, as it relates to head wounds, shows that the spray of blood and tissue would be on the side of the exit wound, not the entry wound as Robert claims.

Penn and Teller demonstrated the effect as it relates to the JFK head wound on their BS cable show. The photos below show (in sequence top to bottom) a bullet entering a melon from the left and exiting on the right. Notice the pronounced jet effect in the first picture as the bullet exits.

oif4v6.jpg


Here's a video of the segment from the Penn and Teller show.

Google Video This video is not hosted by the ISF, the ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
 
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Walter Ego said:
I already gave a source, Posner, p. 312. Posner actually went to Dallas and interviewed the Parkland doctors. Posner's book was published in 1993 and if he mischaracterized the doctor's statements they've had plenty of time to complain but none have done so.

Oh, that's right, Posner is a liar. If fact, he's such a liar he was discredited by the insane Vincent Bugliosi! :D

And for anyone who isn't Robert:

Note here how Robert can make bald assertions as if he was stating facts but everyone else must prove what they say with sources and citations. Robert is the clarion of undeniable truth but everyone else is on probation.
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Based on the many half truths and untruths in Posner's book, it is highly doubtful that he interviewed or quoted anyone accurately since many of those doctors made completely contrary statements previously under oath. For example:

"According to Gerald Posner, Dr Carrico said to him in an interview Posner says he conducted on March 8th, 1992: "We saw a large hole on the right side of his head. I don't believe we saw any occipital bone. It was not there. It was parietal bone."

But what did Dr. Carrico report originally?

The Parkland doctors attempted "...to control slow oozing from cerebral and cerebellar tissue via pads instituted."

"I believe there was shredded and macerated cerebral and cerebellar tissues both in the wounds and on the fragments of skull."

"This [wound] was a 5cm by 17cm defect in the posterior skull, the occipital region. There was an absence of the calvarium or skull in this area."

"[There was]...a fairly large wound on the right side of the head in the parietal/occipital area. One could see blood and brains, both cerebellum and cerebrum fragments in that wound."

Adolph Giesecke, Staff Anesthesiologist:

According to Gerald Posner, Dr. Giesecke said to him in an interview Posner says he conducted on March 5th, 1992: "I was wrong in my Warren Commission testimony... I never got that good a look at it [the head]...[and] the occipital and parietal region are so close together it is possible to mistake one for the other."

But what did Dr. Giesecke report originally?

"It seemed that from the vertex to the left ear, and from the browline to the occiput on the left hand side of the head the cranium was entirely missing.

Marion Jenkins

(Professor And Chairman Of Anaesthesiology):

According to Gerald Posner, Dr Jenkins said to him in an interview Posner says he conducted on March 3rd, 1992:

"...[T]here could not be any cerebellum. The autopsy photo, with the rear of the head intact and a protrusion in the parietal region, is the way I remember it. I never did say occipital."

But what did Dr. Jenkins say in his earlier reports and in his Warren Commission testimony?

"There was a great laceration on the right side of the head (temporal and occipital)...even to the extent that the cerebellum had protruded from the wound."

"I really think part of the cerebellum, as I recognized it, was herniated from the wound...."

Contrary to his alleged Posner interview, Dr. Jenkins both wrote and said "occipital."


Similar contradictory statements from Drs Baxter, Peters, Clark and Perry.

From:
What Did the Parkland Doctors Really Say?
by Russell Kent

http://www.jfklancer.com/ParklandDrs.html
 
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