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Merged New video! Architects and Engineers - Solving the Mystery of Building 7

The steel you showed fell in hours, you failed again. The fire was fought, you failed again. The concrete core kept the weakened building from failing, you failed again. 10 years of failure, you are late.

Good job, you showed a steel frame which collapsed in seconds, but a concrete core that did not fail in fire, but was too weak to keep.

Now the world knows concrete can be used to keep building standing.

The world now knows you showed a building destroyed, TOTALED solely by fire, no aircraft, JUST FIRE. The building you showed was Totaled by fire. This is why 911 truth fails, you have no idea what you post.

The building you posted, the fire was fought, but did not save the steel only frame section you posted as being GONE. Good job
 
Good job, you showed a steel frame which collapsed in seconds, but a concrete core
Quoted for re emphasizing. Comparing the WTC to the Windsor building (saying that windsor didn't collapse totally and thus the WTC shouldn't have) is almost as retarded as it gets. Any architect or engineer that wants to equivocate concrete construction to steel in fire performance shouldn't have a license to work in my opinion. It's like basic arithmetic in the profession; concrete and steel construction are totally different.

To add Clayton hasn't made a single substantive response since joining this thread weeks ago, quell surprise. Then again, to make that comparison, is to show he really hasn't a clue (along with the entirety of AE911) about design. Don't feed him anymore people...
 
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Last time I looked fire doesn't linger next to steel columns. It either moves and burns or burns and moves.

Wow. If only there was some byproduct of fire that remains after its progression...

The fuel for office fires isn't adjacent to the steel support columns. The fuel for office fires is away from the steel columns. That is why steel supported buildings don't collapse during or after a fire.

I just happened to be in my office when I read that whopper and I took the snap below. Clayton, I wonder if you'd mind giving us your opinion of what fuel for an office fire is. You see, the rectangular object directly behind the wooden shelves stuffed with paper and to the left of the black non-fire rated lateral file cabinet which is stuffed with much more paper is, in fact, housing a steel column. A steel perimeter column located on the 19th floor of a 41 story high-rise to be precise. If I had the time or the inclination, I could easily take another hundred snaps of similar conditions throughout my building. So again, what's your definition of fuel?

afd74814.jpg
 
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Wow. If only there was some byproduct of fire that remains after its progression...



I just happened to be in my office when I read that whopper and I took the snap below. Clayton, I wonder if you'd mind giving us your opinion of what fuel for an office fire is. You see, the rectangular object directly behind the wooden shelves stuffed with paper and to the left of the black non-fire rated lateral file cabinet which is stuffed with much more paper is, in fact, housing a steel column. A steel perimeter column located on the 19th floor of a 41 story high-rise to be precise. If I had the time or the inclination, I could easily take another hundred snaps of similar conditions throughout my building. So again, what's your definition of fuel?

[qimg]http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff387/AJM8125/afd74814.jpg[/qimg]

As I said
Last time I looked fire doesn't linger next to steel columns. It either moves and burns or burns and moves. The fuel for office fires isn't adjacent to the steel support columns. The fuel for office fires is away from the steel columns. That is why steel supported buildings don't collapse during or after a fire.

Most of the combustibles on a floor in an office building would be away from support columns. It's just common sense. It's called floor space.
 
Now why are you compelled to make statements like that David? You know that is untrue.

http://mountainrepublic.net/2011/03...der-for-controlled-demolition-inc-speaks-out/

Bare assertion fallacy. This appears to be the source of the untrue assertion that a roofline kink is an indicator of controlled demolition. I've explained perfectly clearly why this cannot be true.

Yes I know this is old news to you. If you need further evidence that roofline kinks are quite commonly associated with building implosions, I guess I can throw together a photo composite.

Or you could look at the videos I just linked to, which clearly show that a roofline kink may or may not be present in a building implosion. However, you have yet to advance any evidence that a roofline kink is not expected in any other kind of collapse. Without that evidence, you can't cite a roofline kink as an indicator of controlled demolition.

To argue briefly by analogy, you can cite as many sources as you like to the effect that a cat has four legs; it still doesn't prove that something with four legs can't be a dog.

Beyond any possible doubt? Instead of conceding the point you just raise the ante with a bigger lie.

I don't think anybody could doubt that you don't have a clue what you're talking about. For example:

The velocity of the global collapse is at zero and therefore, so is the acceleration.

Your complete inability to understand simple Newtonian physics is clearly demonstrated by your continued insistence that zero velocity must therefore mean that acceleration is zero.

Regarding your irrelevant comparison example of the upwardly tossed ball.

There is an easy to use word in the english language which clearly describes the motion condition of your upwardly moving ball when is "falling at zero velocity over a zero period of time". It is called stopped David. From that extremely brief "stopped" condition, T=0, it will enter into a state of freefall or an acceleration of 1G.

Keep going. This is superb comedy. Are you arguing that an upwardly thrown ball, at the instant when its velocity is zero, also has an acceleration of zero?

It does not alter the engineering facts required for WTC7 to be in a state of freefall for 100 feet.

It does not alter the fact that at least 100 feet of zero structural resistance must have existed for the NIST's WTC7 global collapse Stage 2 freefall to have occurred.

All of which is simply explained by the formation of a multi-storey buckle during Stage 1, the fracture of the hinges at the beginning of Stage 2, and the collision of the facade with the lower structure at the end of Stage 2.

Dave is remaining remarkably silent on this.

More comedy. You're claiming I'm lying about your incompetence, and at the same time you're claiming I'm remaining remarkably silent on whether you're incompetent. Both can't be true, can they?

I never denied there was movement in WTC7 prior to NIST's Stage 1.

So, if the acceleration was zero at all times prior to T=0, how exactly did this movement take place?

And I doubt it was possible, considering the rather crude video measurements available to the NIST, for them to precisely state that Stage 1 was a perfectly smooth zero to 1G acceleration over 1.75 seconds.

Since the graph of acceleration is available, your doubt is of little interest. Here it is, with acknowledgements to tfk, who just posted it in the "CD = Free Fall?" thread.




The use of "near freefall" to characterize the Stage 1 portion of the WTC7 collapse, is clearly intended to convey a relative value to the observed descent. This would seem to be a fair description given that after 1.75 seconds, WTC7 was in freefall.

And you accuse me of using empty words?

The use of "near freefall" to characterise the stage 1 portion of the WTC7 collapse is clearly intended to convey the impression that, in the above graph, the green line follows the red line up to the 5 second point on the X axis. Look at the red line. Look at the green line. Note how, up to this point, their behaviour is completely different.

It's abundantly clear who isn't accepting the engineering realities here.

Dave
 
What about the video of a few firemen saying to the public that the building is about to come down?

Miragememories likes to make up evidence when he hasn't got any. This is a classic example. We know that the structural deformations in WTC2 were observed from police helicopters prior to the collapse, and that they tried to recommend an evacuation, but were unable to communicate with firefighters inside the building because their radios didn't work well enough. Once WTC2 had collapsed, there was an obvious presumption that WTC1 might collapse too. And we also know that all search and rescue efforts had been withdrawn from WTC7 and a collapse perimeter set up hours before the collapse.

As a source of information, Miragememories is completely worthless.

Dave
 
Most of the combustibles on a floor in an office building would be away from support columns. It's just common sense. It's called floor space.

Orly?

As someone who's been involved in the management of high-rise buildings for the past 22 years, whose job description is in part to see that combustibles and other hazardous materials are in compliance with existing fire, building, safety and health codes as required by our insurance carrier, I'd appreciate it if you'd expand on your above quote.
 
The point is that if the damage and the resulting failures you mentioned were possible they could easily be replicated by a computer model. And improved upon to limit damage to the surrounding area.

No. The random damage caused by the collapse of the second tower and the random spread of fires on multiple floors would make the exact mapping of every failure's characteristics near impossible. The fact NIST managed to get one as close as it is was really quite a remarkable piece of work.

On that note; If NIST really was covering up for this "inside job", and as truthers claim they continue to hide their calculations for their models, then how come there isn't a NIST simulation which mimics exactly what is seen in the videos? It makes no sense that NIST is this all powerful cover-up entity, and yet their models showing the after initiation total collapse of the outer shell of wtc7 varies from the video footage..

It's similar to the truther claim that the flight data recorder from Flight 77 shows a different flight path to the one which the government states.. Similar because it contradicts conspiracy logic. Truthers believe Flight 77 never hit the pentagon, and that the supposed FDR is a completely forgery. However, if this is true, why would 'they' fake a FDR and release it to public which contradicts with the story they are trying to use to "cover up" their crime.

Conspiracy theorist stun me all the time with these constant examples of contradictions. You cannot have your cake and eat it too Truthers. Larry/Bush/Rumsfeld would not go out on national tv and spout off their "master plan" if they are hell bent on covering it up. They would not shoot down a random plane in the middle of no where for 'added effect', they would not complicate the issue as far as it apparently has, and they sure as hell could not have done it without the involvement of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of people (none of which who have blown the whistle). Truthers need to accept their theory makes no sense, and are logically impossible to have accomplished, which is why fewer and fewer people are following their retarded movement (including Dylan Avery and Charlie Veitch).
 
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The fuel for office fires is away from the steel columns. That is why steel supported buildings don't collapse during or after a fire.

If you had ever bothered to read the NIST report, or even read my entire post, you will have seen that it was not the fires on the columns which caused them to fail. The beams (which run over/under the floor systems) and the girders are what heated, expanded and buckled. From memory, NIST states the columns never received enough significant heat to weaken their structural integrity to any significant point. The columns in WTC7 never weakened, or softened. They didn't have to. All it took was for the beams and girders attached to the columns (and each other) to heat, expand, and buckle, for them to dislodge themselves off the columns and collapse the columns lateral support.

Perhaps you should read the report, its rather interesting
 
Conspiracy theorist stun me all the time with these constant examples of contradictions. You cannot have your cake and eat it too Truthers. Larry/Bush/Rumsfeld would not go out on national tv and spout off their "master plan" if they are hell bent on covering it up. They would not shoot down a random plane in the middle of no where for 'added effect', they would not complicate the issue as far as it apparently has, and they sure as hell could not have done it without the involvement of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of people (none of which who have blown the whistle). Truthers need to accept their theory makes no sense, and are logically impossible to have accomplished, which is why fewer and fewer people are following their retarded movement (including Dylan Avery and Charlie Veitch).

Which is why, of course, this "debate" is still occurring on relatively obscure internet forums, YouTube, and website blogs instead of in Congress, the Halls of Academia, respected media outlets or the court systems anywhere on Earth after 10 friggin' years.

Cults. Gotta love 'em.
 
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Not even close. You really need to think the gazillion variables in a roll playing video game software.

It's not a roll playing video game. It's an organic process.

Do you remember this?

You said, and I quote
Clayton Moore said:
The point is that if the damage and the resulting failures you mentioned were possible they could easily be replicated by a computer modelAnd improved upon to limit damage to the surrounding area. .

Which, is incorrect. Time, temperature, humidity, wind speed, direction, variable wind patterns, fuel load, fuel placement, etc. etc. etc. ALL must be accounted for. A fire will progress differently with just slight alterations to any one of these variables.

Last time I looked fire doesn't linger next to steel columns. It either moves and burns or burns and moves. The fuel for office fires isn't adjacent to the steel support columns. The fuel for office fires is away from the steel columns. That is why steel supported buildings don't collapse during or after a fire.

I and the other posters, might actually be dumber for reading this.
 
Last time I looked fire doesn't linger next to steel columns. It either moves and burns or burns and moves. The fuel for office fires isn't adjacent to the steel support columns. The fuel for office fires is away from the steel columns. That is why steel supported buildings don't collapse during or after a fire.

I and the other posters, might actually be dumber for reading this.

My thoughts exactly
:dl:
 
Yes it does look like a CD and for very good reasons.

There were explosions and numerous witnesses have testified to this fact.

No explosive remains (nanothermite) were found in the remains by the Official investigators (the NIST and FEMA) because they did not look for those substances.

How does the fact that it was occupied earlier in the day have any bearing on the possibility of CD, other than your incredulity?

It had unfought fires over several floors. Other than the smoke, much of it originating from WTC 6, there was never a lot of evidence supporting a significant amount of raging fire activity.

The relevant emergency services did not expect the collapse of the WTC Twin Towers and had even less reason to expect that outcome for WTC7.
That story was spread from the top and the lower echelons, still in shock, were expected to believe it.

Do not expect any kind of balance from Edx when discussing the Official Story of 9/11.

MM

Lies.
 
You arent listening to MM.

He is contradicting himself, of course, as I pointed out. He knows that the firefighters all thought it was going to collapse, the way he tries to explain that is by claiming that they were just too "in shock" to question it on the day, that the order to pull back and create a collapse zone was from higherups and them alone but the firefighters on the ground were just repeating what they were saying,

You just keep repeating your usual load of crap.

Crap that has been countered time after time with the truth.

For example, need I drag out the news story where the fire chiefs are all claiming they had no expectation that the Towers were going to collapse?

Your whole idea is to de-rail by repeating old topics and take the focus off the more pertinent issues like the nature of the WTC7 free fall.

If I find the time and energy, I might comment on some of your claims, again, sigh, Edx, but I see no urgency.

Only newbies to 9/11 could possibly accept all the bs you shovel as being unquestionable fact.

Carry on.

MM
 
You just keep repeating your usual load of crap.
Troofer projection

Crap that has been countered time after time with the truth.
More troofer projection

For example, need I drag out the news story where the fire chiefs are all claiming they had no expectation that the Towers were going to collapse?
Troofer quote mining, no surprise there

Your whole idea is to de-rail by repeating old topics and take the focus off the more pertinent issues like the nature of the WTC7 free fall.
In reality, it is troofers repeating old topics and placing focus on irrelevant issues like the supposed WTC 7 freefall

If I find the time and energy, I might comment on some of your claims, again, sigh, Edx, but I see no urgency.

Only newbies to 9/11 could possibly accept all the bs you shovel as being unquestionable fact.
More troofer projection


Carry on.

MM

10+ years and troofers still haven;t produced one shred of evidence that can survive the slightest bit of scrutiny.
 
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I guess that was your "bs baffles brains" argument, eh David?

My statements were directed to people in the world that understand that when an object is not moving, it has no velocity or acceleration.

You think you are making a great case by complicating something which is not complicated at all.

If somehow you believe all your academic posturing is going to make WTC7's 100 foot free fall drop become somehow insignificant and a realistic fire-induced expectation, than good luck to you.

MM
 
My statements were directed to people in the world that understand that when an object is not moving, it has no velocity or acceleration.
Which isn't always true. You can have zero velocity with a non-zero acceleration. Gravity is a constant
 
If somehow you believe all your academic posturing is going to make WTC7's 100 foot free fall drop become somehow insignificant and a realistic fire-induced expectation, than good luck to you.

I think it's really about time you either put up, or shut up.

If what you're describing is a "classic controlled demo" - you need to show us one that did have this period of freefall, had no evidence of explosives in the debris, and didn't have any audible explosions.

For extra credit - show us that the explosives could survive in the inferno for 7 hours.
For even more extra credit, tell us how the Pentagon and Shanksville are tied into this.

You want to be a mega-truther-hero? Be the FIRST to do so. Otherwise get a new hobby, junior.
 

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