Merged New video! Architects and Engineers - Solving the Mystery of Building 7

[twinstead]

If it were possible for a huge building to be demolished without explosives as was WTC7 or minimal explosives as were the towers it would become business as usual and convention controlled demolitions would no longer be required.

Yup. All CD companies would have to do is either ram huge, fuel-laden jet liners into buildings, or crash other large sky scrapers into buildings and not fight the resulting fires, and no CD explosives would ever be needed ever again to bring buildings down.

I think you're on to something there Clayton. Maybe you should alert the CD industry

 

[Mr. Skinny]

Yes it does look like a CD and for very good reasons.

There were explosions and numerous witnesses have testified to this fact.

No explosive remains (nanothermite) were found in the remains by the Official investigators (the NIST and FEMA) because they did not look for those substances.

How does the fact that it was occupied earlier in the day have any bearing on the possibility of CD, other than your incredulity?

It had unfought fires over several floors. Other than the smoke, much of it originating from WTC 6, there was never a lot of evidence supporting a significant amount of raging fire activity.

The relevant emergency services did not expect the collapse of the WTC Twin Towers and had even less reason to expect that outcome for WTC7.
That story was spread from the top and the lower echelons, still in shock, were expected to believe it.

Do not expect any kind of balance from Edx when discussing the Official Story of 9/11.

MM

Every single point listed above has been discussed at length on this forum, and reasonable rebutals have been provided. I'm inclined to believe that you simply can't understand the science, etc.

Also, considering your other posts here today, I recommend you not only repeat your structural engineering class, but also try to pick up a few other courses in physics, statics, dynamics, strength of materials, chemistry, etc. that would help in your understanding of the answers you've been provided.

 

[BasqueArch]

Yes, that's it, exactly.

Can you name a single skyscraper in history that "was standing, then it wasn't".

It looks like a CD because of the speed and symmetry of the collapse. Nothing more, nothing less.

Looks can be deceiving however.

*continues lurking*

The value of your lazy opinions about the events of 9/11 and your contribution to the present sum of this accrued knowledge , and its importance to those who make responsible , sober decisions about the real world is not a positive number.

 

[sheeplesnshills]

I have not seen in any video any point where each top corner of WTC7 falls below other points by more than 5 degrees to a vertical plane in the first 3.3 seconds of collapse (0.8s a=0 till a=g, and 2.5s a=g).

So? not symmetric to any standard other than your arbitrary limits. The collapse was clearly asymmetrical.

 

[sheeplesnshills]

Someone should have linked to them before!

I guess that in one way it shows a) How easy a total global collapse is by just taking out one floor b) How easily damage could have caused this to happen but also c) How easy it would have been for a rogue group to take out one just one floor to lead to total global collapse.

Bingo! the rogue group used a 767 and fire to do just that. All that is required is to make one floor fall on the one below. The interior and exterior columns could have been completely undamaged and the building would still have failed

 

[sylvan8798]

Regarding your irrelevant comparison example of the upwardly tossed ball.

There is an easy to use word in the english language which clearly describes the motion condition of your upwardly moving ball when is "falling at zero velocity over a zero period of time". It is called stopped David. From that extremely brief "stopped" condition, T=0, it will enter into a state of freefall or an acceleration of 1G.

Wrong. At the exact point in time when the ball is stopped at the top of its rise, the acceleration is 1G, the same as it is at every other point in the time of its motion.

Regardless, it is also a reference to the fact zero time has passed which does make it abundantly clear that with regard to T=0 and the global collapse of WTC7, nothing has happened yet. The velocity of the global collapse is at zero and therefore, so is the acceleration. Any 2 year old would understand that David.

Perhaps you should stop getting your physics education from 2 year olds.

I was not aware that a scientist or an engineer had to be competent to understand such a fundamental concept as "zero time on the clock".

Uh, what?

 

[Zeuzzz]

So? not symmetric to any standard other than your arbitrary limits. The collapse was clearly asymmetrical.

Indeed, in fact any collapse in history would be considered asymmetric without defining the minimum unit of length or angle over time you are measuring. I did define it, as roughly 5 degrees from t = 0 to t=3.3.

Maybe I should have said approximately symmetrical. To the layman it certainly looks near symmetrical.

Bingo! the rogue group used a 767 and fire to do just that. All that is required is to make one floor fall on the one below. The interior and exterior columns could have been completely undamaged and the building would still have failed

Bolded statement is patently absurd.

 

[triforcharity]

No, I was just wondering if the inspiration for Verinage style CD's came from the twin towers collapse or whether it was a previously existing method of demolition often used.

It's not new to my knowledge.

Here is the patent. It's in French I believe.

https://data.epo.org/publication-server/getpdf.jsp?pn=1082505&ki=B1&cc=EP

Here's some background on it.
http://ip.com/patent/EP0973984B1

 

[Zeuzzz]

The relevant emergency services did not expect the collapse of the WTC Twin Towers and had even less reason to expect that outcome for WTC7.
That story was spread from the top and the lower echelons, still in shock, were expected to believe it.

What about the video of a few firemen saying to the public that the building is about to come down?

 

[Oystein]

Indeed, in fact any collapse in history would be considered asymmetric without defining the minimum unit of length or angle over time you are measuring. I did define it, as roughly 5 degrees from t = 0 to t=3.3.

So the answer to the question "symmetric or not?" is as much dependent on your (arbitrary) definition as it is in the actual collapse properties, right? You might as well say that any collapse in history would be considered symmetric as you coukd say that any collapse in history would be considered asymmetric - just define "symmetry" according to your personal taste and needs.
It is an irrelevant category. Symmetry, whether by your arbitrary definition nor by any other arbitrary definition, is not a characteristic of controlled demos. Some look tidy and "symmetric", some don't.

Maybe I should have said approximately symmetrical. To the layman it certainly looks near symmetrical.

maybe you should not have given arbitrary labels to this irrelevant category.

Bolded statement is patently absurd.

No, it isn't. If, hypothetically, you allow the floors to fall between undamaged perimeter and core, nothing will stop them from pancaking all the way to the ground, leaving perimeter and core fatally unbraced and making them collapse in the process.

 

[Nursedan]

9/11 argument!!!

 

[Clayton Moore]

Christ..

- Fire burned for hours unchallenged.

- Fire expanded beams.

- Beams were connected asymmetrically to girders, therefore expansion of beams dislodged girders from columns.

- Further expansion causes buckling of beams and girders.

- Dislodged/buckled beams and girders loose ability to hold weight.

- Floor systems supported by beams and girders collapse progressively for 6 or more floors.

- Column 79 looses lateral support for the entire section of collapsed floor, girder and beam sections.

- Column 79, continuing to support the remaining 34 floors above it, bows outwards and begins to buckle.

- Columns 80/81, also loosing partial lateral support, fail to support the redistributed weight from column 79, and also bow out and buckle.

- Vertical floor collapse progresses from the 6th floor all the way to the rooftop, first evident by the collapse of the East Penthouse and dust/broken glass emitting from the windows below.

- Collapsing debris from the above section severely damage both East Diagonal Members of Truss systems 1 and 2.

- Truss 2 collapses, causing the failure and collapse of columns 77, 78, 78A and Truss 1.

- Damage from falling debris and the massively huge redistribution of weight (resulting from the failures of 2 out of 3 truss systems) causes the remaining internal columns to continue to progressively collapse in this way, until the remaining intact collumns fail and collapse, causing the bottom section of the building to collapse.

- Bottom section of building collapsing results in the top section following a downwards path (Gravity), with the massive momentum caused by a 47 story building falling continuing it for a brief time at near free fall acceleration.

- Collapse of building 7 caused fatal damage to 30 West Broadway and $1.4 Billion damage to the Verizon building.

What is so hard to believe about this narrative of events? Fire brings down buildings, thats what fire does. I think truthers have no perception of the massive amount of forces involved here. This is not card house, or a concrete office building. This is a 47 story SKYSCRAPER with a very unique design (long span floor beams, asymmetric connections of beams to girders/girders to columns). Bare in mind truthers, 47 stories is a DAM BIG BUILDING. I don't even know of any buildings here in New Zealand that are 47 stories; its a big bloody building. A big building has a lot of weight and force acting on it. Once parts of it begin to collapse and fail, that is a hell of a lot of force being redistributed, and eventually, falling. I personally believe the main problem with truthers is this; they fail to perceived the relative size/massive forces involved with the events on 9/11.

The point is that if the damage and the resulting failures you mentioned were possible they could easily be replicated by a computer model. And improved upon to limit damage to the surrounding area.

 

[triforcharity]

Incorrect. Too many variable to account for with fire.

 

[Clayton Moore]

Incorrect. Too many variable to account for with fire.

Not even close. You really need to think the gazillion variables in a roll playing video game software.

Last time I looked fire doesn't linger next to steel columns. It either moves and burns or burns and moves. The fuel for office fires isn't adjacent to the steel support columns. The fuel for office fires is away from the steel columns. That is why steel supported buildings don't collapse during or after a fire.

 

[beachnut]

Not even close. You really need to think the gazillion variables in a roll playing video game software.

Last time I looked fire doesn't linger next to steel columns. It either moves and burns or burns and moves. The fuel for office fires isn't adjacent to the steel support columns. The fuel for office fires is away from the steel columns. That is why steel supported buildings don't collapse during or after a fire.

Steel fails in fire, you fail on every post, at room temperature.

 

[BenBurch]

...

If the loads are off kilter on these parts (AKA eccentric, and unevenly redistributed), I expect an off balance look to any ensuing collapse. Duh!

...

And this is where you err. The horizontal velocity developed before the structures had lost the ability to bear loads would likely have been a few feet per minute and the collapse took seconds. You'd never see it. Plus the horizontal velocity was not all in the same direction. It was chaotic.

We did see the upper part of one building (I forget which) acquire a rotation seemingly as a unit, but it had at that time lost most of its support so was not experiencing much structural load at all. Temporarily.

 

[Edx]

Not even close. You really need to think the gazillion variables in a roll playing video game software.

Last time I looked fire doesn't linger next to steel columns. It either moves and burns or burns and moves. The fuel for office fires isn't adjacent to the steel support columns. The fuel for office fires is away from the steel columns.

Steel doesnt bend, soften or weaken at all in fires. How silly!

That is why steel supported buildings don't collapse during or after a fire.

HAY HAY CLAYTON!! Do you remember what happened to all the steel in the Windsor tower fire???

 

[Edx]

What about the video of a few firemen saying to the public that the building is about to come down?

You arent listening to MM.

He is contradicting himself, of course, as I pointed out. He knows that the firefighters all thought it was going to collapse, the way he tries to explain that is by claiming that they were just too "in shock" to question it on the day, that the order to pull back and create a collapse zone was from higherups and them alone but the firefighters on the ground were just repeating what they were saying,

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Yup. All CD companies would have to do is either ram huge, fuel-laden jet liners into buildings, or crash other large sky scrapers into buildings and not fight the resulting fires, and no CD explosives would ever be needed ever again to bring buildings down.

And who the crap cares about those surrounding buildings, anyway? What's a few tens or hundreds of millions of dollars in collateral damage?

You really need to think the gazillion variables in a roll playing video game software.

...the hell? Your mention of video games has me interested, but I for the life of me can not decipher the meaning of this incoherent combination of words. Could you try that again, perhaps when you've sobered up a bit?

 

[Clayton Moore]

Steel doesnt bend, soften or weaken at all in fires. How silly!

[qimg]http://cdn.calisphere.org/data/13030/4h/hb6x0nb64h/files/hb6x0nb64h-FID3.jpg[/qimg]



HAY HAY CLAYTON!! Do you remember what happened to all the steel in the Windsor tower fire???

[qimg]http://www.serendipity.li/wot/other_fires/madrid_burning.jpg[/qimg]

http://www.google.com/search?q=Wind...Q&biw=754&bih=464&sei= kVe7ToSGHcre0QHMu9jeCQ


On fire for 24 hours and didn't collapse in less than 20 seconds.