Occupy Wall Street better defend its identity

[RandFan]

Correct. But what she did mobilized hundreds of people who distributed thousands of flyers and they organized the bus boycott, which lasted for months until the bus segregation laws were repealed. The protests had a clearly defined goal. Her thousands of supporters didn't go off on tangents or come with their own separate agendas. The movement wasn't hijacked by communists, anarchists, unions, conspiracy theorists, etc., all pushing thier own agendas with no goal at all like OWS has become.

But people had been protesting before her. OWS might just need such a moment. As to the rest, you are simply things that are demonstrably false or ambiguous or misleading. Many in the govt actually did believe the civil rights had been hijaaked for just such purposes. Regardless, I grew up then, I remember the Stalinist iconography (fist). I remember the Little Red Book and popularity of communism. I remember Jane Fonda and the Viet Cong sympathizers. So, you are just flat out wrong. To the extent that OWS is populated by anarchists and it seems to me it was just as populated then. But if you are going to make claim then prove it.

Evidence?

As was the bus boycott.

My point exactly.

I take the meta-view both times.

Not when you focus only on Parks. She was one data point and not the only data point. You conveniently left out MLK Malcolm X and a lot of other incidents like Kent state and the Tet Offensive (the 60s were not just about advancing the cause of blacks). There were marches for women's rights. Abortion rights. To end the Viet Nam war. Etc.

So? There's other ways to get places. They were punishing the municipal bus sewrvice, not private businesses and their customers and workers.

"So"? Are you kidding? The only way they could punish the municipal bus service was to hurt private individuals and private businesses. And you've ignored the other examples. Sit-ins. Being public doesn't mean people are inconvenienced less. There are still laws that the protestors had to break. You are reaching, I mean stretching to justify the civil disobedience of the 60s while condemning the current protests. And let's be honest, most people on the right and the conservative democrats denounced those protestors just as you are doing now to OWS. You ad hac rationalize by special pleading.

The overwhelming majority of the remaining protestors are the lunatic fringe.

I keep asking you for evidence and you keep ignoring me all the while continuing with your assertions. Why is that?

 

[Virus]

Reporter goes undercover.

Violence, assault, rape.

Just another day at Freak City.

http://m.nypost.com/p/news/local/ma...ight_amid_anarchy_of_ush5s5NscUZincUN0tF0yO/0

 

[RandFan]

That's a small part, yes. What about communist revolution? Chemtrails? Freeing Gaza? Ending aid to Israel? Investigating 9/11? Ending capitalism? free tuition? Forgiveness of debt?

The flotsm and jetsum of every movement. The tea party ahd their anti semites pro-Ron Paul racists, etc.

These are also "the OWS demands", yes?

Can you not take yes for an answer? I've conceded that they are for some percentage of the protestors. Just as there were communists and other groups during the 60s movement.

Lots of bitching and moaning, very little in the way of solutions.

Actually there have been solutions. I posted some on this thread today. I've posted a number of videos of people protesting that have offered solutions.

You don't know about the solutions because you don't want to know. It wouldn't fit your narrative. You've allready made up your mind about OWS and to hell with the facts. I've watched every video Brainster, Virus and others have posted. You obviously don't watch mine or read my links or you wouldn't say something so wrong.

 

[Democracy Simulator]

Nope, they say so right there: "OccupyWallSt.org is the unofficial de facto online resource for the growing occupation movement happening on Wall Street and around the world."

Do you have a link to the official site?

I never said the website was official.

I suggest that if you want to understand what the grievances behind OWS are, then the best place to do that would be to go to the website that organizes and promotes the large actions (usually marches) that have been taken under the general banner of OWS. What issues are they marching for?

Of course, you could instead scour the web for individuals protesters holding signs, but there are many more people involved in the actions, so they have much more significance than individual protesters. If I was an historian looking back at this movement, I know which resources I'd go to first, to get a flavour of what they were about.

No, these aren't official demands, no they are not supported or acknowledged by everyone who comes along to OWS.

 

[WildCat]

I never said the website was official.

I suggest that if you want to understand what the grievances behind OWS are, then the best place to do that would be to go to the website that organizes and promotes the large actions (usually marches) that have been taken under the general banner of OWS. What issues are they marching for?

Let's see...

While these assemblies are calling for general strikes, they are also calling for much more. Schools, community organizations, affinity groups, workplaces and families are encouraged to self-organize to shut down their cities and rebuild their communities in whatever manner they are comfortable with and capable of.

Following Israel and Oakland's example, we join this month of global uprising. We stand in solidarity with those who are organizing the actions that are creating the fabric of our new movement.

It is time for us to come together and build a new world through the power of the individual and the community. We are not here to make requests of a corrupt political system - we are here to take our lives back into our own hands. We are not acknowledging subservience. There is no higher power than the power of the people. We are not asking for assistance. We are declaring independence. Our demand is not to those in power, it is to those individuals still silenced. Join us.

So they want to dismantle the political system and start over from scratch?

I thought it was about jobs and the kooks were just a fringe element?

 

[stilicho]

Let's see...

So they want to dismantle the political system and start over from scratch?

I thought it was about jobs and the kooks were just a fringe element?

We have mandated provincial elections in BC on 19-NOV-2011 and some of the terminally unelectable candidates are running by using the Occupy framework. Here's one of them:

http://stevefilipovic.ca/Campaign_to_Elect_Steve/Home.html

There are several others and they're all "Greens" here in Canada. I'm not sure what you call them down south:

As for the other three candidates (Sandra Dixon, David Shinbein, and Josh Steffler), very little is known about them. They don’t have much community involvement, don’t attend Council meetings, and their campaigns have been virtually invisible.

....

Steffler works in the local Country Grocer bakery and is an organizer of the Occupy Victoria camp protest downtown.

(Source: http://victoriavision.blogspot.com/ )

Even though this is in British Columbia, notorious for its support of wacky candidates with unelectable ideas, these fringe kooks have absolutely no visible support and will all lose badly.

What Democracy Simulator might be noticing is that, unlike the "Greens" in Canada, the mainstream Democrat Party in the US wants absolutely nothing to do with public parks full of unemployable freaks and out-of-control looters. If they do make a move that way then I predict confidently that the Democrats will be out of the White House in 2012. You can take that to the Bank.

 

[bikerdruid]

Reporter goes undercover.

Violence, assault, rape.

Just another day at Freak City.

http://m.nypost.com/p/news/local/ma...ight_amid_anarchy_of_ush5s5NscUZincUN0tF0yO/0

gee, you can sure dig up the nasty stuff, eh?
imagine if you used those search skills for good, and not evil.
boggles the mind, the potential....

 

[JihadJane]

I've answered this question so many time I'm beginning to think you don't care about the answer. I'm wondering how many times I will have to tell you.

If you are seriously interested in a discussion I'd happily tell you. However, given your Dunning-Kruger certainty of your position I'm not sure of the point?

I keep asking you for evidence and you keep ignoring me all the while continuing with your assertions. Why is that?

You don't know about the solutions because you don't want to know. It wouldn't fit your narrative. You've allready made up your mind about OWS and to hell with the facts. I've watched every video Brainster, Virus and others have posted. You obviously don't watch mine or read my links or you wouldn't say something so wrong.

From here to eternity...

Are you still standing by your claim that OWS protestors are sleeping in their own feces?

Yeah, but now it's getting cold in NYC so they get to sleep in their own feces in little tents.

Thanks for acknowledging your divorce from reality.

 

[Stout]

We have mandated provincial elections in BC on 19-NOV-2011 and some of the terminally unelectable candidates are running by using the Occupy framework. Here's one of them:

http://stevefilipovic.ca/Campaign_to_Elect_Steve/Home.html

Oh yea, that guy. I see him campaigning in Cook Street Village all the time. Funny story about him. I'm at the big rally at the legislature, the first one, the small one ( they had two, don't know why difference of opinion on what to protest? ) talking to this homeless guy and along comes Steve passing out business cards. Steve gave me one but didn't offer one to the homeless guy.

I asked homeless guy ( I'm a street vendor, I know a lot of homeless people ) "who was that ? " Homeless guy replies with " I don't know" So Steve was picking and choosing those "deserving" of his cards.

Occupy Victoria was even complaining about this guy piggybacking on their movement as part of his campaign as they wanted to be non-partisan.

 

[Brainster]

Will the last person out of Obamaville Atlanta please turn off the light?

The woman was draped in an American flag as dozens more demonstrators stood behind barricades surrounding Woodruff Park, where police had warned they would enforce an 11 p.m. curfew. Occupy Atlanta organizer Tim Franzen said having one person protesting was just as powerful as several.

 

[Neally]

gee, you can sure dig up the nasty stuff, eh?
imagine if you used those search skills for good, and not evil.
boggles the mind, the potential....

And the hand waving away of the negative incidents continues...

 

[bikerdruid]

And the hand waving away of the negative incidents continues...

and the ignoring of the positive aspects of the movement is rampant among the abysmally far right wingnuts.

 

[Stout]

And the hand waving away of the negative incidents continues...

That would be your basic demand for unconditional support.

If there's one thing in the word you can count on other than death and taxes, it's "the left" to divide themselves into various factions and fight amongst themselves.

 

[Neally]

and the ignoring of the positive aspects of the movement is rampant among the abysmally far right wingnuts.

Do tell. List all the positive aspects of the movement.

 

[bikerdruid]

Do tell. List all the positive aspects of the movement.

if only increasing awareness of the sickness in the corporate control of america and its cronies, it is worth while.
people are exercising their right to protest the evils in the system.

do you believe that the status quo is acceptable?

 

[Neally]

if only increasing awareness of the sickness in the corporate control of america and its cronies, it is worth while.

Good point. Wall street in particular has donated heavily to Obama, the most to any politician in the last 20 years in fact. Yet how much do you see the protestors highlighting this fact? You see it's not about increasing the awareness of this fact. It's about left wingnuts and professional protesters in a fantasy exercise thinking that they are going to create a new system/society.

do you believe that the status quo is acceptable?

There are a lot of things broken and need fixing. The occutards haven't a clue of how to fix anything, they can't even manage keeping their portapotties working.

 

[bikerdruid]

Good point. Wall street in particular has donated heavily to Obama, the most to any politician in the last 20 years in fact.

you seem to have mistaken me for an obama supporter.
someone paid for obama's billion dollar campaign in 2008.

 

[Neally]

you seem to have mistaken me for an obama supporter.

The thread isn't about if you or I love or hate BO. It's about OWS and their foolish protests.

 

[bikerdruid]

The thread isn't about if you or I love or hate BO. It's about OWS and their foolish protests.

no, it's about OWS and their fruitful protest.

 

[Neally]

no, it's about OWS and their fruitful protest.

And we have come full circle. You claimed that the positives were exposing "corporate control of america". I showed that they missed the mark by a long shot. Now you continue to claim that the protests are "fruitful".