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Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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PDiGirolamo said:
I think this is an episode highly pertinent to many people who post about this case. This episode is the one I would have every PMF person watch and understand.
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Ah yes: the vindictive and sadistic behaviour of mobs. As you say, this was an intriguing insight into how people behave when they are anonymised and given "permission" to gang up on an unfortunate victim (or victims). Writ large, the same thing happened in Germany* in the 1930s against jews, gypsies, communists and other declared "untermensch" groups. And writ small, it's what's happening at .org and .net day in and day out against Knox and Sollecito. I wonder if many of the most maladjusted posters on those sites have any self-awareness at all to understand what they are doing? Oh wait, I suppose I answered my own question....

* Yes, I realise that the very mention of Nazi Germany will cause a loud klaxon to go off somewhere, but it's pertinent and relevant to a discussion of group psychology and directed hatred.
 
LondonJohn said:
It suddenly occurred to me that this would very probably be the case! I shall peruse.
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Oh dear! There is some risible "argument" going on in that thread that is demeaning to the idea of scepticism. Chief culprit appears to be John Albert, who clearly does not understand Derren Brown's motivation and intent, and has apparently arbitrarily decided that since some of Brown's work involves deception and misdirection, nothing he says or claims can ever be trusted.

He's even gone so far as to ludicrously suggest that Brown installs large groups of planted stooges in his live shows or TV audiences for the purposes of participant selection (John Albert realises that Brown typically selects subjects by flinging a frisbee into various sections of the audience and selecting the person on whom the frisbee lands, and therefore "reasons" that Brown would have to have a large group of "plants" in order to guarantee that the frisbee would land somewhere amongst them. Of course, a moment's thought reveals just how crazy and illogical this "argument" is. And I've been to two Derren Brown theatre shows, and I can be virtually 100% certain that this sort of thing isn't going on.
 
Katody Matrass said:
Just to let you people know,
There's an ongoing thread about Derren Brown's "Experiment" series :)
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Azrael 5 and Adman (and you, of course!) are the voices of reason, logic and experience in that thread. Derren Brown may be many things, but he's not an out-and-out fraud. He respects the art and craft of magic, and also has a deep academic interest in the facets of human behaviour which enable magic/deception to be possible in the first place. Having read his books, seen his various shows on TV and stage, and gained access to some of his confidential method descriptions (including a fabulous for-magicians-only DVD showing exactly how he performs most of his best close magic), I am totally satisfied that he is honest in his representation of himself and his effects. I'm open to being disproven by solid evidence, but as of now I am confident in my assessment.

And that's why I believe that the structure and outcome of last week's show "The Guilt Trip" was valid and true, and that no deception of the audience took place. There are still people who cling stubbornly to the belief that an innocent person would never confess to murder, but such people have been conclusively proven to be wrong and misguided through numerous real-life examples. This show was nothing more than a structured examination into how and why such a phenomenon - which is clearly, at face value, inexplicable - can come to occur. And I think it demonstrated very well the conditions under which a false confession to murder can be elicited from a normal, outgoing, mature young adult in a very short space of time.

Anyway, I get the feeling that this is now veering slightly off the main topic at hand (although it's still directly relevant to the Knox "confession/accusation" in my opinion), so I'll stop discussing Derren Brown in this thread for the time being!
 
The false confession of Frank Esposito

I have discussed his case several times in relation to this one (he was accused of arson that killed a number of horses). Here is a link to a story with a video of his confession.
 
halides1 said:
I have discussed his case several times in relation to this one (he was accused of arson that killed a number of horses). Here is a link to a story with a video of his confession.
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That's amazing. I watched the video first, and was thinking, "I don't get it, the guy at least was there and thinks he did it by accident". Then I read the article. Really revealing, thanks for posting that.
 
pilot padron said:
May I just add to that borderline off topic observation of yours.
Even a cursory review of almost any page on this Forum would show to the degree desired by any non agenda biased observers that many, many of the posters here follow PMF much more closely that I ever have.

In fact, if it were not for cut n pasted 'carry backs' from PMF, and subsequent bashes and 'pile-ons', many pages here would be totally blank.
Often I read here what is on PMF before even seeing it there myself.

A cursory perusal of the PMF area showing of how many "guests" are reading (following closely) every line of PMF at any one day is further proof of what I am saying.

Therefore, forgive me, but I cannot accept your 'argument' about reading priorities and preferences.
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No we know that you probably have a different screen name on PMF. The reason why there are so many guests is because that is not an open forum, they only allow people in who hate Amanda Knox. It is not about justice for Meredith there. They can hide behind that to justify their hate group, but it's pretty obvious from a neutral observer what they are. I was undecided when I started following this case, I leant a bit more towards Amanda's innocence, but I still had questions. I got answers here, none there.
 
BaileyBell said:
No we know that you probably have a different screen name on PMF. The reason why there are so many guests is because that is not an open forum, they only allow people in who hate Amanda Knox. It is not about justice for Meredith there. They can hide behind that to justify their hate group, but it's pretty obvious from a neutral observer what they are. I was undecided when I started following this case, I leant a bit more towards Amanda's innocence, but I still had questions. I got answers here, none there.
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There is no denying that P** has provided some very good resources concerning the case. They have done at least as good a job as any group of compiling information and disseminating it.

I can't stop reading there because it as much a look inside the minds of such very unique people as the movie "Repulsion".
 
BaileyBell said:
No we know that you probably have a different screen name on PMF. The reason why there are so many guests is because that is not an open forum, they only allow people in who hate Amanda Knox. It is not about justice for Meredith there. They can hide behind that to justify their hate group, but it's pretty obvious from a neutral observer what they are. I was undecided when I started following this case, I leant a bit more towards Amanda's innocence, but I still had questions. I got answers here, none there.
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Yes! He uses "stint7", and I don't think he is even denying being him, he is just insinuating … that way it probably doesn't feel like lying to him.
 
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bolint said:
Certainly.
For me the supporting fact is that I don't believe them that they don't know what they were doing that night.

At 8:45pm they were completely all right and from 9:00pm they don't remember anything till 10am next morning.
Both of them.
Even today they avoid this question like plague. See the Raffaele interview.
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Where is the evidence for what they remembered of their evening? You seem to be confusing first hand memory with reconstructions.
 
smkovalinksy said:
Just flinging this up because it is nice to see a pic or 2 on occasion: :p

Amanda out walking with her Mom:

[qimg]http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/fp/Amanda+Knox+Amanda+Knox+Family+Enjoying+Walk+Xw3hqEvSBiBl.jpg[/qimg]

http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/fp/Amanda+Knox+Amanda+Knox+Family+Enjoying+Walk+Xw3hqEvSBiBl.jpg
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Remember Paul Harvey? He was famous (on radio) for telling a lead in story that built up to some point at which he would break for a commercial with the reminder to stay tuned for the rest of the story. And everyone familiar with him would always wait because every story of his had a twist or surprise that was worth waiting for.

This is not one of those....sorry.

What at first appears to be a lovely photo of Amanda out enjoying a walk with her mother is actually one (of several) photos that appears in the Daily Stalker...err...Mail or is it Mirror (I get those confused) today that provides us details of her new love by naming him, his occupation, his hobbies etc.. and they even take liberties to provide details that AK has been in fact sleeping over at his place near Chinatown for a week now. I can only guess as to how they know that.

I’m afraid it will be years if ever that any kind of normal life is available for this girl.

So I would advise her to "Go On Take The Money And Run"...ooooooyea
 
Fischer is photoshopping pictures again! Where's Fuji?!


QnX6a.jpg
 
Rudy's timeline

Rudy went dancing the night of the murder, possibly to establish an alibi. Does anybody know what would be the earliest time that Rudy had a verifiable alibi for the night of the murder?
 
Osterwelle said:
According to Amanda's testimony they ate dinner, washed the dishes (that's when they noticed the leak), smoked a joint and had sex from 9:00 on so it's not that they couldn't remember anything.
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What Raffaele describes as a "very remote possibility".
He was mad about her and he does not remember if they had a whole night sex.
Give me a break.
 
Dougm said:
If I were them I would avoid it like the plague as well. Because the minute they try to remember exactly what they did, at what time, 4 years ago, while stoned, people will jump on it as evidence of guilt. There is nothing for them to gain to try to explain what they did minute by minute. It is the job of the police to prove they were not there, not their job to prove they were there.
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The problem is that they did not remember days after that night, not four years.

Anyway, it is hypocrisy to invoke the "4 years ago" excuse when they exercised their right to silence very shortly after the murder.
 
Katody Matrass said:
Frank Sfarzo has a new post up.
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Frank:
”Between us is over. I still have a great affection towards her but nothing else”. Raffaele, interviewed last Friday on the TV program Quarto Grado, seems to have accepted the verdict and wished to Amanda “all the happiness in the world”.
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Well, the winner of the day is Doc Sollecito. :)
No more talk about Rafe visiting her.
 
The computer evidence

Well, whatever happened to the the whole night computer activity so precisely "proven" by the screen saver records? :D
 
bolint said:
The problem is that they did not remember days after that night, not four years.

Anyway, it is hypocrisy to invoke the "4 years ago" excuse when they exercised their right to silence very shortly after the murder.
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The entire case was ginned up by battering Knox and Sollecito into saying some confusing things without their lawyers present. Reasonably enough they listened to their lawyers and kept their mouth shut after that.

I am confused about this issue. What kind of details about their night together didn't they remember? Did the police make any attempts to validate their alibi by asking them independently what they did without battering them into speaking nonsense that the police wanted to hear? It would be informative on these kind of issues if you could provide a link to a transcription of the police interviews of Sollecito and Knox.
 
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