Occupy Wall Street better defend its identity

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WildCat said:
Strange definition of "suddenly" you have.
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"Relatively". I'll gladly stand by that. The salient point is that there isn't even a correlation between current unemployment problems and immigration. At best eliminating immigration would be a stopgap measure. It's really a non starter WC.
 
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RandFan said:
"Relatively". I'll gladly stand by that. The salient point is that there isn't even a correlation between current unemployment problems and immigration. At best eliminating immigration would be a stopgap measure. It's really a non starter WC.
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Here you are moving the goal posts from the wage gap (remember that chart you posted?) to unemployment.
 
WildCat said:
Here you are moving the goal posts from the wage gap (remember that chart you posted?) to unemployment.
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Let's grant you the premise for arguments sake (it's BS but I'll humor you). Even if that were true it would STILL, at best, be a stopgap measure.

Remember the chart I posted? What amount would you be willing to attribute to immigration? More importantly, are you wulling to say the trend is linked to immigration? Really

I'm sorry but no matter how desperately you try it's still a fail. A trend is a trend and immigration isn't the cause of the trend (hint: it never was). While it's certainly possible to link some percentage of lower wages to immigration it cannot justify a trend unless immigration is increasing in the same ratio as the trend and there I'm afraid you fail utterly. But xenophobia is still an effective scape goat. Blame those bonuses on immigrants. Yeah, that's the ticket. The growing disparity and obscene bonuses are due to people with brown skin, that's the ticket.
 
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RandFan said:
Where does Taibbi say that all of TALF was off the books?

From Wiki: Further. So, the point isn't that TALF was secret itself, it's that the people who received the money were. Why?

That's been my point from, day one.
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Taibbi never said it was off the books you said it based upon his misleading article.just like you were mislead into thinking why would they be able to manage the assets.
The article has many misleading half truths.
What does the quote agreeing with you prove. Although I believe it was a good investment opportunity but with more risk than you thought.
 
stilicho said:
Why does "Occupy" find itself so easy to "infiltrate"? Why not just take the pamphlet over to the nearest peace officer and point out the troublemaker before anything even starts? Grab a vidcap of the individual on your mobile phone and show it to the authorities.

Seems pretty simple as a solution to "infiltration".
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Oh come now, I wouldn't elevate these obvious interlopers to the status of 'infiltrators'. What surprises me is that given the Oakland Liberation Front have published material advocating violence and that given that they were responsible for vandalism, we have heard almost nothing about them in the media. How are the police dealing with these agents provocatuers?
 
Add major arson to the list of crimes committed by Obamavillers:

Police have arrested an Occupy Fort Collins protester in connection with a $10 million arson fire that damaged dozens of condominiums and businesses in Fort Collins.

Benjamin David Gilmore, 29, was arrested on Thursday night on suspicion of arson, burglary and criminal mischief.
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The local occupiers issued the usual statement:

"He may have stopped by the protest, but he is in no way a direct relation to our movement," said protester Julia Crisafi. "We are peaceful protesters.
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But others noted:

Gilmore joined the Occupy Fort Collins movement in mid-October.

“He showed up on the 3rd or 4th day,” said Rich Crisler, who identified himself as the media coordinator for Occupy Fort Collins.
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jhunter1163 said:
Hasn't most of the so-called "bailout" money been paid back?
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No. According to the article linked below, $238 million of $586 billion is still outstanding. The "Big Evil Banks" have repaid, it's the smaller banks, car companies and Freddie/Fannie that haven't. This is why OWS is so clueless. They march on Goldman Sachs, which paid back $10 billion (the full amount they got), but ignore Freddie/Frannie that haven't paid back a dime of the $175 billion given to them.

http://projects.propublica.org/bailout/main/summary
 
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RandFan said:
Let's grant you the premise for arguments sake (it's BS but I'll humor you). Even if that were true it would STILL, at best, be a stopgap measure.

Remember the chart I posted? What amount would you be willing to attribute to immigration? More importantly, are you wulling to say the trend is linked to immigration? Really

I'm sorry but no matter how desperately you try it's still a fail. A trend is a trend and immigration isn't the cause of the trend (hint: it never was). While it's certainly possible to link some percentage of lower wages to immigration it cannot justify a trend unless immigration is increasing in the same ratio as the trend and there I'm afraid you fail utterly. But xenophobia is still an effective scape goat. Blame those bonuses on immigrants. Yeah, that's the ticket. The growing disparity and obscene bonuses are due to people with brown skin, that's the ticket.
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You have an amazing ability to ignore what I said and harp on what I didn't say.

Read this carefully: the hiring of illegal immigrants and even much of the legal work visas are for one single purpose - to drive down the wages of workers. If you support more low-skilled immigration, legal or otherwise, then you have no right to complain about wage gaps. It's like complaining about getting wet after begging to go out in the rain.
 
Alt+F4 said:
No. According to the article linked below, $238 million of $586 billion is still outstanding. The "Big Evil Banks" have repaid, it's the smaller banks, car companies and Freddie/Fannie that haven't. This is why OWS is so clueless. They march on Goldman Sachs, which paid back $10 billion (the full amount they got), but ignore Freddie/Frannie that haven't paid back a dime of the $175 billion given to them.

http://projects.propublica.org/bailout/main/summary
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It has already been pointed out to you that the bail-outs were only a part of the largesse poured upon the failed banksters and that the bail-outs are being "repaid" with taxpayers' money.
 
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JihadJane said:
It has already been pointed out to you that the bail-outs were only a part of the largesse poured upon the failed banksters and that the bail-outs are being "repaid" with taxpayers' money.
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What is a "bankster"?
 
eeyore1954 said:
Taibbi never said it was off the books you said it
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I sure did. What of it? Semantics? Pedantry?

What does the quote agreeing with you prove.
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Funds distributed were not disclosed. Why? You are so intent on focusing on semantics you are missing the point. Is the lack of transparency with public funds really so trivial in your eyes?

Although I believe it was a good investment opportunity but with more risk than you thought.
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Really? Based on what? What was the effective interest rate charged the LLC? What was the range of effective interest rates the LLC could charge? Was the interest rates FIFO for both? LIFO for both? How are losses accounted? FIFO, LIFO?
 
WildCat said:
You have an amazing ability to ignore what I said and harp on what I didn't say.
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Go look in the mirror. You aren't even begining to grasp the fatal flaw in your argument. But I'll keep with you until you get it. It's pretty simple math.

If you support more low-skilled immigration, legal or otherwise, then you have no right to complain about wage gaps.
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The decrease in wages due to illegal immigration was effective and realized decades ago. The surplus of workers only keeps wages low relative to the number of surplus workers.

If a gap existed 20 years ago for X number of workers then the same gap exists today. Given that the number has stayed relatively close to X, in relation to the native population then X can't account for further decreases in wages, unless of course you maintain that X is growing at a significantly greater rate than the native population. Are you claiming that?

So yes, I sure as hell can complain about the erosion of wages unrelated to illegal to immigration. Like I said, it's fairly simple math. Question is, will you continue to ignore the facts?
 
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Stout said:
It's a neologism. It combines the words bank and gangster.
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Ok, over 900 banks and credit unions took bail out money. I wonder, are they all "banksters"? It only the CEO? The tellers? Only the ones that haven't paid it back?

Isn't this bank transfer day?
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And they picked a Saturday, a day when banks close early.
 
Alt+F4 said:
Ok, over 900 banks and credit unions took bail out money. I wonder, are they all "banksters"?
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Just the ones that exhibit certain behaviors. Those that Violate the letter of the Volker rule (unconscionable). Those that blur the lines of being banks by being quasi insurance and investment firms for the purpose of getting around regulations and creating conflicts of interest.
 
Alt+F4 said:
Ok, over 900 banks and credit unions took bail out money. I wonder, are they all "banksters"? It only the CEO? The tellers? Only the ones that haven't paid it back?
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Interesting question. Hypothetically one could classify a teller working at a bank that was bailed out as a bankster, technically, the teller is still employed because the bank wasn't allowed to fail. I suspect not though as this movement seems to center solely on rich people. Ant the environment, and 911 twoof and legalising all drugs and free tuition and no private donations to political parties and.....

And they picked a Saturday, a day when banks close early.
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IMO the saturday thing is designed to revolve around working people who, presumably, have the day off, All out local events, like tomorrow's music festival, revolve around weekends.
 
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