Merged Electric Sun Theory (Split from: CME's, active regions and high energy flares)

[Perpetual Student]

So the only physical thing that actually physically reconnects are the magnets. The fields simply repulse or attract until the magnets are JOINED. The MOVEMENT of the field (the rotation) will in fact INDUCE currents.

What about my questions about the magnetic field lines? How did they change their connections if they did not break and reconnect?

 

[Michael Mozina]

Are you finding it as amazing as I am that no answers to these questions are forthcoming?

I don't understand which part of your question that you believe I haven't yet answered. I've told you (and you agreed) that no magnetic lines reconnected while the two magnets are SEPARATED. They simple repulse and attract. The MAGNETS will indeed physically "reconnect", but the magnetic lines themselves never do that until or unless you RECONNECT THE MAGNETS. Even then, as RC put it, you're "stretching" (or not) the magnetic lines, not necessarily "reconnecting" them.

RC was also correct that the MOVEMENT (the spin factor) is important to the "magnetic reconnection" process. That movement creates FLUX which INDUCES the E field in plasma.

 

[Michael Mozina]

What about my questions about the magnetic field lines? How did they change their connections if they did not break and reconnect?

The magnets physically "reconnected".

 

[Humanzee]

Amazed and disappointed.

 

[W.D.Clinger]

There's a difference between HIS "magnetic" lines and yours.

Magnetic field lines come in personalized flavors?

His fields lines don't "reconnect" at a couple of zero points,

Then why did he say they do? You must have missed this bit on your first reading:

magnetic field lines move to the X-type neutral point and reconnect in it

You'd know all this if you'd read his WHOLE book as I have done.

So it wasn't your first reading, but you still missed it. I'm beginning to wonder how well you understand what you read.

Alright, I'm going to ask you the same question I asked RC. I can name at least 5 plasma physics textbooks I've read to date.

Five entire textbooks, and you still have no clue about magnetic fields, magnetic flux, Ampère's law, the Lorentz force, and other basic concepts of freshman electromagnetism. What good is all that reading if you're not going to understand any of it?

You also charged into UNCHARTED TERRITORY since no other author I've ever read makes your claim and doesn't use induction.

You got me all excited for a moment. In science, charging into uncharted territory is a good thing.

Then I realized you're just telling me that, so far as you understand what you've read, I'm in uncharted territory.

 

[Humanzee]

Again, Im not understanding. Field lines that begin and end on magnet A change to begin on magnet A and end on magnet B as magnet B is rotated in the animation. Thats not reconnection?

NVM...I'll let Perpetual Student ask the questions here. I obviously don't understand the problem.

 

[Michael Mozina]

Magnetic field lines come in personalized flavors?

They can have NO energy at a specific location (like your two zero points) or they can have SOME energy at the point of "connection/interaction". You keep trying to connect a couple of zero points and get kinetic energy from it *WITHOUT* induction or current.

Then why did he say they do?

Where did he say they connected in a couple of zero points like your experiment? I don't suppose you read page 108 yet?

You must have missed this bit on your first reading:

No, I just happen to know how the rest of the book comes out. I happen to have read those points about CURRENT SHEETS and reconnecting electric fields the things you're missing in your experiment.

So it wasn't your first reading, but you still missed it. I'm beginning to wonder how well you understand what you read.

Ya, and I'm still waiting for you to acknowledge Dungey's DISCHARGES too.

Five entire textbooks, and you still have no clue about magnetic fields, magnetic flux, Ampère's law, the Lorentz force, and other basic concepts of freshman electromagnetism. What good is all that reading if you're not going to understand any of it?

There you go right back to attacking individuals. How sad. What a bunch of crap too since you've yet to cite ANY published work that claims that YOUR PERSONAL EXPERIMENT is an example of "magnetic reconnection". You keep handwaving away, attacking the individual, refusing to address my questions and acting like any good creationist.

You got me all excited for a moment. In science, charging into uncharted territory is a good thing.

Then I realized you're just telling me that, so far as you understand what you've read, I'm in uncharted territory.

More personal crap because you can't finish your math assignment and get any kinetic energy from it. Getting frustrated are you?

 

[Perpetual Student]

Originally Posted by Perpetual Student
What about my questions about the magnetic field lines? How did they change their connections if they did not break and reconnect?

The magnets physically "reconnected".

Again, what about the field lines?

 

[Michael Mozina]

Again, what about the field lines?

Based on your questions, I'm guessing that you're confusing B field lines with H lines?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_field

B-field lines never endMain article: Gauss's law for magnetism

Field lines are a useful way to represent any vector field and often reveal sophisticated properties of fields quite simply. One important property of the B-field revealed this way is that magnetic B field lines neither start nor end (mathematically, B is a solenoidal vector field); a field line either extends to infinity or wraps around to form a closed curve.[nb 8] To date no exception to this rule has been found. (See magnetic monopole below.)

Magnetic field lines exit a magnet near its north pole and enter near its south pole, but inside the magnet B-field lines continue through the magnet from the south pole back to the north.[nb 9] If a B-field line enters a magnet somewhere it has to leave somewhere else; it is not allowed to have an end point. Magnetic poles, therefore, always come in N and S pairs. Cutting a magnet in half results in two separate magnets each with both a north and a south pole.

More formally, since all the magnetic field lines that enter any given region must also leave that region, subtracting the 'number'[nb 10] of field lines that enter the region from the number that exit gives identically zero. Mathematically this is equivalent to:

where the integral is a surface integral over the closed surface S (a closed surface is one that completely surrounds a region with no holes to let any field lines escape). Since dA points outward, the dot product in the integral is positive for B-field pointing out and negative for B-field pointing in.

There is also a corresponding differential form of this equation covered in Maxwell's equations below.

H-field lines begin and end near magnetic poles
Unlike B-field lines, which never end, the H-field lines due to a magnetic material begin in a region(s) of the magnet called the north pole pass through the magnet and/or outside of the magnet and ends in a different region of the material called the south pole. Near the north pole, therefore, all H-field lines point away from the north pole (whether inside the magnet or out) while near the south pole (whether inside the magnet or out) all H-field lines point toward the south pole. (The B-field lines, for comparison, form a closed loop going from south to north inside the magnet and from north to south outside the magnet)

The H-field, therefore, is analogous to the electric field E which starts at a positive charge and ends at a negative charge. It is tempting, therefore, to model magnets in terms of magnetic charges localized near the poles. Unfortunately, this model is incorrect; for instance, it often fails when determining the magnetic field inside of magnets. (See "Non-uniform magnetic field causes like poles to repel and opposites to attract" below.)

Outside a material, though, the H-field is identical to the B-field (to a multiplicative constant) so that in many cases the distinction can be ignored. This is particularly true for magnetic fields, such as those due to electric currents, that are not generated by magnetic materials.

 

[W.D.Clinger]

Again, what about the field lines?

Based on your questions, I'm guessing that you're confusing B field lines with H lines?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_field

Reconnection can occur with either B or H field lines.

The Wikipedia excerpt that Michael Mozina quoted repeats one of the myths for which the experiment I've been recommending provides a counterexample. Fortunately, that excerpt qualifies its statement of the myth with both a parenthetical correction and a footnote:

One important property of the B-field revealed this way is that magnetic B field lines neither start nor end (mathematically, B is a solenoidal vector field); a field line either extends to infinity or wraps around to form a closed curve.[nb 8]

The parenthetical remark (that B is a solenoidal vector field) is entirely correct. To understand what it means, however, you have to understand the mathematical concept of divergence that's used to define the notion of a solenoidal field and to state Gauss's law for magnetism.

The idea that "B field lines neither start nor end" is a white lie that's told to people who aren't expected to understand the math. The "[nb 8]" footnote states an exception to that white lie, and the magnetic field seen in Dungey's figure 1, Yamada et al's figure 3a, and the current Wikipedia article on magnetic reconnection illustrate a different (but related) counterexample to that white lie.

In short, Michael Mozina has been repeating a dumbed-down version of Gauss's law for magnetism that isn't completely true. Even if it were true, it wouldn't rule out magnetic reconnection (because ∇∙B is altogether different from ∂B/∂t).

 

[Perpetual Student]

OK, I'll try again:

In the following animation are magnetic lines not breaking and reconnecting? Is this not what everyone here means by "magnetic reconnection"?

http://my.execpc.com/~rhoadley/motion09.htm

 

[tusenfem]

Are you finding it as amazing as I am that no answers to these questions are forthcoming?

No not really, because as soon as you ask MM something physics specific, for which he cannot throw in generalizations like "look in the book" he just does not answer, just like my question in which direction the particles in the current sheet are accelerated and in which direction the tension of the magnetic field is accelerating the (bulk) plasma.

 

[Belz...]

Check it out. I might not.

Are you okay ? "Might" includes "might not", you know ?

 

[Michael Mozina]

Are you okay ? "Might" includes "might not", you know ?

I'm willing to risk it. Education is always a good thing.

 

[Michael Mozina]

OK, I'll try again:

In the following animation are magnetic lines not breaking and reconnecting? Is this not what everyone here means by "magnetic reconnection"?

http://my.execpc.com/~rhoadley/motion09.htm

It doesn't matter how many physical magnets or magnet reconnections you work with, it's still the same issue PS. You're still confusing magnetic H lines with B lines. The act of physically reconnecting the magnets does indeed physically "reconnect" the H lines. The changes in the layout of those magnets may also affect the ROUTE of the B lines too. The B lines however do NOT begin, they do not end, they do not disconnect, and they don't "reconnect".

The dB/dt Clinger refers to is what INDUCES the E fields according to Somov, it doesn't result in any "disconnected" or "reconnected" B lines.

 

[Michael Mozina]

No not really, because as soon as you ask MM something physics specific, for which he cannot throw in generalizations like "look in the book" he just does not answer, just like my question in which direction the particles in the current sheet are accelerated and in which direction the tension of the magnetic field is accelerating the (bulk) plasma.

No. The question you asked has no clear answer when you're working with 3 dimensional *ROTATING* and *MOVING* and *RECONNECTING* field aligned currents.

 

[Michael Mozina]

Reconnection can occur with either B or H field lines.

No. The "reconnection" of the H lines are directly related to the physical reconnection of the solid magnets.

The Wikipedia excerpt that Michael Mozina quoted repeats one of the myths for which the experiment I've been recommending provides a counterexample.

Your "counter example" lacks any kinetic energy at the point of "reconnection".

In short, Michael Mozina has been repeating a dumbed-down version of Gauss's law for magnetism that isn't completely true. Even if it were true, it wouldn't rule out magnetic reconnection (because ∇∙B is altogether different from ∂B/∂t).

What a bunch of BS! That ∂B/∂t is the process that *INDUCES THE E FIELD* that Somov is talking about. That's also why you're totally up a kinetic energy creek without a inductive paddle when it comes to releasing any energy at a couple of ZERO points. You've literally cut your nose off to spite your face by trying to change B SLOWLY.

 

[GeeMack]

[...] according to Somov [...]

... magnetic reconnection exists and is a reasonable explanation for the energy release in solar flares and for the heating of the corona.

 

[Michael Mozina]

... magnetic reconnection exists and is a reasonable explanation for the energy release in solar flares and for the heating of the corona.

Ya, but according to Somov, it's also an example of "Reconnecting electrical currents", and induced E fields. In fact he describes the filaments/lines in chapter 16 as reconnecting "field aligned currents", or current reconnection.

You're essentially taking about a *COMPLETE PROCESS* that releases stored magnetic field energy by INDUCING E fields in the plasma and by the redirection of current. There's nothing magic about it and it's not a "unique" method of energy exchange. It's simple induction and current redirection.

 

[GeeMack]

... magnetic reconnection exists and is a reasonable explanation for the energy release in solar flares and for the heating of the corona.

Ya, [...]

So moving forward with everyone in agreement that magnetic reconnection exists and is a reasonable explanation for the energy release in solar flares and for the heating of the corona...