The Wicked Witch of the West and Obamacare

[Architect]

Okay, let's look at two competing arguments here:

1. UHC is more cost effective at providing medical treatment to the population as a whole, with outcomes at least comparable to the world's leading private system.

2. THe problem with the world's leading private system is too much regulation, get the government out of it an it will be fine.

Now (1) has been proven empirically time and time again by the likes of Canada, the UK, and much of mainland Europe. (2), on the other hand, is unproven.

Against that background, I have to ask what logic would lead anyone to hang their hat on (2) as the way forward?

 

[Newtons Bit]

Okay, let's look at two competing arguments here:

1. UHC is more cost effective at providing medical treatment to the population as a whole, with outcomes at least comparable to the world's leading private system.

2. THe problem with the world's leading private system is too much regulation, get the government out of it an it will be fine.

Now (1) has been proven empirically time and time again by the likes of Canada, the UK, and much of mainland Europe. (2), on the other hand, is unproven.

Against that background, I have to ask what logic would lead anyone to hang their hat on (2) as the way forward?

Extreme distrust of government and politicians.

 

[Spindrift]

Extreme distrust of government and politicians.

So do you back privatizing the Army? The same government and politicians is in charge of them.

 

[I Ratant]

So do you back privatizing the Army? The same government and politicians is in charge of them.

.
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RP comes across as a hard-liner Libertarian or Freeman of the Land.
IOW, a nut.

 

[Architect]

Extreme distrust of government and politicians.

This is not necessarily without foundation but begs the question about how come the rest of us manage it so much better.

 

[ZirconBlue]

This is not necessarily without foundation but begs the question about how come the rest of us manage it so much better.

Why, because you're all mindless sheeple that blindly submit to your government, of course.

 

[Newtons Bit]

So do you back privatizing the Army? The same government and politicians is in charge of them.

Why would I do that?

 

[TimCallahan]

The $300 bill wasn't just for your treatment, but for all the deadbeats that are treated for free. And since Medicare pays without concern for the monies it gets stolen from taxpayers, there is no market discipline. If a hotdog stand could charge $300 per hotdog, and people paid it, that would be very profitable. But people will not pay $300 for a hotdog if there is a guy across the street selling hotdogs for just 2 bucks. That is market discipline.

Concerning the hilited area, you know this because . . . ?

As to the Medicare payments, they could use the prudent buyer system that Blue Cross was using. This hasn't got so much to do with competition, since that wasn't the issue with Blue Cross: They simply strong-armed the medical providers into accepting less money. There's no reason the government couldn't do likewise.

 

[Spindrift]

Why would I do that?

You said:

Extreme distrust of government and politicians.

Were you just answering the question or were you stating your own opinion?

If the former, I'm sorry for the confusion on my part.

If the latter, You don't want trust the government and politicians with health care, do you trust them running the military?

 

[Newtons Bit]

You said:


Were you just answering the question or were you stating your own opinion?

If the former, I'm sorry for the confusion on my part.

If the latter, You don't want trust the government and politicians with health care, do you trust them running the military?

I was not stating my own opinion.

 

[TimCallahan]

Free up the market Get the government out of it. Allow H. insurance to be purchased without mandated coverage such as sex change operations, abortions, mental health, drug and alcohol treatments, pregnancy, etc., ED treatments, etc., etc., etc. And to be able to purchase across state lines. And to implement Negative Outcome insurance in place of in place of lawsuits.

Let's remember that the insurance companies aren't exactly in favor of a free market. They are large corporations with a lock on medical care. As to the list that of things you seem to want cut:

1) sex change operations: there are very few of these performed, singce the overwhelming majority of human beings are happy being the gender they were born into. Do you have any statistical evidence to support a contention that these operations are a major source of higher insurance premiums?

2) abortions: What costs more, an abortion or 18 years of medical costs, including routine and specific medical examinations, tonsillectomies and other such surgeries, medicines and immunizations?

3) mental health, drug and alcohol treatments: Over the years Motion Picture Health, long considered the "Rolls Royce" of healthcare plans, has been cutting back, more and more on such coverage. However, consider that an untreated alcoholic will be a constant drain on social resources, whereas a person who is cured of that addiction will be a productive tax payer.

4) pregnancy: Of course, a well-supported pregnancy will ensure healthy babies, who will be less of a drain on society. In any case, I'm not sure that pregnancy is automatically covered by most insurance plans ( I could be wrong about this).

5) ED: As far as I know, such medications as Viagra aren't that costly. Are you sure this is a major impact on the cost of insurance?

 

[Spindrift]

I was not stating my own opinion.

Got it. Sorry about that.

Now back to our regularly scheduled programming.

 

[Robert Prey]

Let's remember that the insurance companies aren't exactly in favor of a free market. They are large corporations with a lock on medical care. As to the list that of things you seem to want cut:

1) sex change operations: there are very few of these performed, singce the overwhelming majority of human beings are happy being the gender they were born into. Do you have any statistical evidence to support a contention that these operations are a major source of higher insurance premiums?

2) abortions: What costs more, an abortion or 18 years of medical costs, including routine and specific medical examinations, tonsillectomies and other such surgeries, medicines and immunizations?

3) mental health, drug and alcohol treatments: Over the years Motion Picture Health, long considered the "Rolls Royce" of healthcare plans, has been cutting back, more and more on such coverage. However, consider that an untreated alcoholic will be a constant drain on social resources, whereas a person who is cured of that addiction will be a productive tax payer.

4) pregnancy: Of course, a well-supported pregnancy will ensure healthy babies, who will be less of a drain on society. In any case, I'm not sure that pregnancy is automatically covered by most insurance plans ( I could be wrong about this).

5) ED: As far as I know, such medications as Viagra aren't that costly. Are you sure this is a major impact on the cost of insurance?

Re: Sex change operations frequency -- don't know, but it's a probable tip of the iceburg of all the ridiculous mandates that I left out.

Re:Abortions: "Thou Shalt Not Kill." -- One of the ten Commandments

Re: Pregnancy. Since men have not much chance of needing the coverage, why should we have to pay for it?

Re: ED. It's pretty expensive for the average person and where do such mandates end? HRT therapy? Soon you're talking real money.

 

[Robert Prey]

Its the exact same thing with the guns pointed in the opposite direction

Yeah, the Soviets pointed it at their own innocent people, while the US would point them at illegals.

 

[Architect]

Re: Sex change operations frequency -- don't know, but it's a probable tip of the iceburg of all the ridiculous mandates that I left out.

Re:Abortions: "Thou Shalt Not Kill." -- One of the ten Commandments

Re: Pregnancy. Since men have not much chance of needing the coverage, why should we have to pay for it?

Re: ED. It's pretty expensive for the average person and where do such mandates end? HRT therapy? Soon you're talking real money.

HRT is available on the NHS IIRC and yet we still pay less than your system......

 

[keale]

Yeah, the Soviets pointed it at their own innocent people, while the US would point them at illegals.

Ok so you advocate shootiing illegals?

 

[TimCallahan]

Re: Sex change operations frequency -- don't know, but it's a probable tip of the iceburg of all the ridiculous mandates that I left out.

So, in other words, you don't know.

Re:Abortions: "Thou Shalt Not Kill." -- One of the ten Commandments

You have gone on record as not necessarily being a Christian. So now you're quoting the Bible. So, which is it? Of course, what we are dealing with here is when, during pregnancy, we consider the embryo or fetus to be a person.

Re: Pregnancy. Since men have not much chance of needing the coverage, why should we have to pay for it?

The last time I checked, male involvement was necessary to the creation of a baby. The husband of a pregnant woman might well benefit from pregnancy coverage.

Re: ED. It's pretty expensive for the average person and where do such mandates end? HRT therapy? Soon you're talking real money.

Okay, suppose we limit it to taking Viagra, Levitra or Cialis. Would that satisfy you?

 

[Robert Prey]

Re:

Re: Pregnancy. Since men have not much chance of needing the coverage, why should we have to pay for it?

The last time I checked, male involvement was necessary to the creation of a baby. The husband of a pregnant woman might well benefit from pregnancy coverage.

Okay, suppose we limit it to taking Viagra, Levitra or Cialis. Would that satisfy you?

"You have gone on record as not necessarily being a Christian. So now you're quoting the Bible. So, which is it? Of course, what we are dealing with here is when, during pregnancy, we consider the embryo or fetus to be a person."

Commnet: That's a question I would ask of you.

"The last time I checked, male involvement was necessary to the creation of a baby. The husband of a pregnant woman might well benefit from pregnancy coverage."

Comment: Fine. So why not let both opt for the coverage, and leave others to not have to support it?

"Okay, suppose we limit it to taking Viagra, Levitra or Cialis. Would that satisfy you?"

Comment: At my age, I'm not sure if it would.

 

[Robert Prey]

Ok so you advocate shootiing illegals?

For resisting arrest, of course. Otherwise you might as well not even have a pea shooter.

 

[Robert Prey]

HRT is available on the NHS IIRC and yet we still pay less than your system......

Hmmm. There must be a flaw there somewhere. Otherwise, I could be converted. Nah. It wouldn't work in the US. Too many deadbeats.