Merged Electric Sun Theory (Split from: CME's, active regions and high energy flares)

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Of course we all know that if *I* had made any of those same mathematical errors, you folks would have been jumping down my throat.
Unlikely. Had anyone been so stupid as to jump down your throat for making exactly the same errors I made, you could have pointed out that all three equations were technically correct as written and follow directly from the definitions and calculations.

You could then explain that the only problem with the first two equations was that they didn't directly contradict your ignorant suggestion that magnetic reconnection is incompatible with Gauss's law for magnetism.

(You could also have pointed out that the second equation implies the third (which does directly contradict your ignorant claims), that the error in the second equation came from forgetting that the surfaces had been defined using cylindrical coordinates instead of Cartesian, and that the second equation would have been correct had a division by r been placed within the definition of those surfaces (which would have been a more natural place for it) instead of leaving that division for the equations. But really, Michael...you don't need to be all that defensive. ;))

Do you want to know the real reasons so many people are giving you a hard time? It's because you continue to repeat your errors even after you've been corrected, you run away from all relevant questions that could help you to learn something, and when some nice person tries to help you out, you accuse him of lying, hating, and religious bigotry, all the while pretending to be some sort of expert on subjects you actually know nothing about.

For example:

You have NO INTENTION of EVER providing ANY kind of published support for your *FALSE* claim that your so called "experiment" actually demonstrates "reconnection". You're just going right ahead handwaving away, tossing out a few equations to make it look legit, and your RUNNING away from supporting your actual claim trough ANY published materials. You're EXACTLY like arguing with a creationist that INSISTS "God did it" through some process that has absolutely NOTHING to do with "God".

You're well on your way to becoming a full fledged EU "hater".

Haters are like creationists. They don't care about the actual science. None of the haters (like RC) ever actually addresses or acknowledges the information presented. The haters also fail to provide any published materials to support their claims too like Clinger refuses to provide any PUBLISHED materials to support his handwaves about his "experiment" being an example of "reconnection". Instead he plows right ahead, ignoring the fact that absolutely NONE of his equations related to "reconnections" per unit length.

Yes, and since you've never bothered to read Cosmic Plasma or Peratt's book in all the YEARS that we've discussed these topics, you've personally made a CAREER out of arguing from pure ignorance. :covereyes


That argument isn't working, Michael. Just about everyone has figured out that you don't have a clue about freshman-level math or physics, so you can't possibly have understood whatever legitimate math and physics may be contained within your holy texts.
 
That argument isn't working, Michael. Just about everyone has figured out that you don't have a clue about freshman-level math or physics, so you can't possibly have understood whatever legitimate math and physics may be contained within your holy texts.

Your personal attacks aren't working Clinger, not in any scientific sense anyway. I've learned a LOT from noting the questions that you REFUSE to address.

You REFUSE to provide *ANY* kind of published references for your claim. Even though I provided TWO published references to support the fact that "electrical discharges" occur in plasma, you refuse to embrace that fact. You refuse to really spend any time at all addressing my questions about changing materials and changing *INDUCTANCE* per distance unit. You REFUSE to explain where any of the kinetic energy comes from at a couple "ZERO" points in magnetic field. You've pretty much REFUSED to address ANY of the relevant questions surrounding your so called "reconnection" experiment.

I know you think that attacking the individual has some sort of emotional value to you, but from the standpoint of PHYSICS and KINETIC ENERGY, I know for a fact that you have no idea how to answer any of these questions *WITHOUT* acknowledging CURRENTS that ultimately "reconnect" at that point, particularly in plasma.

Sooner or later other people will ask you for PUBLISHED references to support your handwaving, and they'll want answers about the million degree rise in temperatures. They'll be honestly curious to know those answers. Will you treat them as you've treated me? Will you lie through your teeth in an effort to attack that individual too, and will you run like hell from every relevant question they put before you? Will you NEVER read Alfven and Peratt's work for yourself, and rely upon ignorance and arrogance forever and ever?
 
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The "funny" (well "sad") part of your participation in this thread is that you've made absolutely no attempt to check out the validity of the statements RC or anyone else is making *BEFORE* jumping into the conversation.

The sad part in your response to my participation in this thread is that you think that every participant should do so in order to check out the validity of anyone's statement. My comment was relevant, you just don't like it.
 
Your personal attacks aren't working Clinger, not in any scientific sense anyway. I've learned a LOT from noting the questions that you REFUSE to address.
It is not a personal attack: I tis a conclusion dram from your display of ignorance, e.g. Michael Mozina's ignorance of high school science (the right hand rule).

He had given references for his claim (any textbook on electromagnetism) which is that you can demonstrate MR using EM.

You have no references - just delusions about them:
Michael Mozina's fantasy about Anthony Peratt's definition of electrical discharge!
13th January 2011: Dungey's and Peratt's definition of discharge are different
You refuse to really spend any time at all addressing my questions about changing materials and changing *INDUCTANCE* per distance unit.
You are lying: he stated what you should know - the permeability of air is different from the permeability of free space.
And as you see above - there is no permeability in the equations when we get back to B.

There is no *INDUCTANCE* per distance unit: Michael Mozina's delusion that permeability is inductance!
 
MM: Induction = solar flares take a million years to happen (31st December 2009)

Irony overload. You folks are the ones who are DESPERATELY trying to redefine INDUCTANCE as "reconnection". Your entire argument is based on a logical fallacy called equivocation.
Ignorance overload. We folks are the ones who are FOLLOWING WHAT THE SCIENCE DOES: defining magnetic reconnection as .... magnetic reconnection!

Your entire argument of magnetic reconnection = inductance is based on a logical fallacy called argument from ignorance or maybe a new fallacy which I will call argument from delusion.

You continue to ignore the physics that the energy released from solar flares would take a million years if released through induction :jaw-dropp!

Magnetic Reconnection Redux V (31st December 2009)
The conversion of magnetic energy into a current always operates on a time-scale characteristic of the system, and that time scale is controlled by the ability of the magnetic field to move through the conductor, in order to create a dB/dt term from which the current is generated. That time-scale in a plasma is rather different than it is for a fixed conductor. Here we find the real deal once again in Priest & Forbes:
"In space physics the distinction between ideal and non-ideal processes is important because simple estimates imply that magnetic dissipation acts on a time-scale which is many orders of magnitude slower than the observed time-scale of dynamic phenomena. For example, solar flares release stored magnetic energy in the corona within a period of 100 s. By comparison, the time-scale for magnetic dissipation based on a global scale length of 105 km is of the order of 106 yrs."
Priest & Forbes, page 6
All of this occurs in the first few pages of the book, but evidently Mozina has not even bothered to look at it. Why bother to suggest books & papers when the evidence suggests that Mozina will never consult them anyway?
 
a simple derivation of magnetic reconnection, part 2

In the first part of this derivation and an erratum, we used 5 equations to derive the magnetic field B around a current-carrying rod.

In this part of the derivation, we will express that magnetic field in both cylindrical and Cartesian coordinates.

In part 3, we will show that the magnetic field around four current-carrying rods reproduces both of the figures in Dungey's 1958 paper, figure 3a in the survey paper by Yamada et al, and the still figure in Wikipedia's current article on magnetic reconnection.

In part 4, I will describe a simple variation of the experiment I've been suggesting to Michael Mozina and prove that the topology of the magnetic field changes during that experiment. As Yamada et al explain in their appendix, that change in the topology of the magnetic field is what we mean by magnetic reconnection.

[size=+1]Notation for B[/size]

When we write ∇∙B, we're thinking of B as a function of points in 3-space. When we write dB/dt or ∂B/∂t, we're thinking of B as a function of time.

As will become painfully clear if you read Michael Mozina's posts, that contextual overloading of B can confuse people. Let's take a minute to review the notation.

We usually speak of B as the magnetic field, which means it's a function from points in 3-space (which we write as R3) to vectors of magnetic flux density (which we also write as R3). In that kind of context, B is a function from R3 to R3, and it would be correct to write
B ∈ (R3 ➝ R3)​
where (R3 ➝ R3) is the set of all functions from R3 to R3.

When we speak of B as a function from time to magnetic fields, it would be correct to write
B ∈ (R ➝ (R3 ➝ R3))​

We may also regard B as a function of four variables (x, y, z, and t), so it would be correct to write
B ∈ ((R3 × R) ➝ R3)​
Because (R ➝ (R3 ➝ R3)) is isomorphic to ((R3 × R) ➝ R3), these last two meanings for B are consistent.

I'll continue to use the traditional notation (instead of lambda calculus, which would be more precise), but everyone should keep in mind that context determines whether we're thinking of B as a function of space or time.

From part 1, here are the equations we'll need as we move forward:

[size=+1]Equation 3 (integral form of Ampère's law)[/size]

[latex]
\[
\oint_C \hbox{{\bf B}} \cdot d \hbox{{\bf l}} =
\int_S \nabla \times \hbox{{\bf B}} \cdot \hbox{{\bf n}} \; da =
\mu_0 \int_S \hbox{{\bf J}} \cdot \hbox{{\bf n}} \; da
\]
[/latex]​


[size=+1]Equation 4 (magnitude of magnetic field around a current-carrying rod)[/size]

In cylindrical coordinates:

[latex]
\[
| \hbox{{\bf B}} | = | \hbox{{\bf B}} (r, \theta, z, t) | = | \hbox{{\bf B}} (t) (r, \theta, z) | = \frac{\mu_0}{2 \pi} \frac{I(t)}{r}
\]
[/latex]​

where those first two equalities illustrate the context-dependent overloading of B.


[size=+1]Equation 5 (superposition)[/size]

[latex]
\[
\hbox{{\bf B}} = \sum_{i} \hbox{{\bf B}}_i
\]
[/latex]​


[size=+1]Magnetic field around a single rod (cylindrical coordinates)[/size]

From equations 3 and 4, the magnetic field around a single current-carrying rod positioned at r=0 is

[latex]
\[
\hbox{{\bf B}} = \hbox{{\bf B}} (r, \theta, z, t) = \hbox{{\bf B}} (t) (r, \theta, z) = \frac{\mu_0}{2 \pi} \frac{I(t)}{r} \hbox{{\bf e}}_\theta
\]
[/latex]​
where eθ is the unit vector in the θ direction.


[size=+1]Magnetic field around a single rod (Cartesian coordinates)[/size]

In part 3, we'll derive the magnetic field for two and then four current-carrying rods. They won't all be positioned at r=0. To derive the magnetic field around rods positioned elsewhere, Cartesian coordinates will be more convenient. From the equation above for cylindrical coordinates, the magnetic field around a single current-carrying rod positioned at the origin of a Cartesian coordinate system is

[latex]
\[
\begin{align*}
\hbox{{\bf B}} &= \hbox{{\bf B}} (x, y, z, t) = \hbox{{\bf B}} (t) (x, y, z) \\
&= \frac{\mu_0}{2 \pi} \frac{I(t)}{\sqrt{x^2+y^2}}
\left( - \frac{y}{\sqrt{x^2+y^2}} \, \hbox{{\bf e}}_x + \frac{x}{\sqrt{x^2+y^2}} \, \hbox{{\bf e}}_y \right) \\
&= \frac{\mu_0}{2 \pi} \frac{I(t)}{x^2+y^2}
\left( - y \, \hbox{{\bf e}}_x + x \, \hbox{{\bf e}}_y \right)
\end{align*}
\]
[/latex]​
where ex and ey are the unit vectors in the x and y directions.

Everything we've done so far is found within standard textbooks on electromagnetism. In part 3, we'll go beyond freshman-level textbooks by reproducing the magnetic fields shown in Dungey's figures and in Yamada et al's figure 3a.
 
As Yamada et al explain in their appendix, that change in the topology of the magnetic field is what we mean by magnetic reconnection.
The existence of the Yamada et. al. does emphasis a problem that Michael Mozina seems to have: he is so convinced that his fantasies are correct that he ignores the actual science and any citations to the actual science.

Yamada et al were first cited in this thread on 27th January 2011 by tusenfem and there is no sign that MM has even looked at the paper :eye-poppi.
 
In the first part of this derivation and an erratum, we used 5 equations to derive the magnetic field B around a current-carrying rod.

In other words, just like any good creationist, you absolutely, positively refuse to provide ANY kind of published work to support your OUTRAGEOUS claims, instead you just keep handwaving away and tossing around formulas related to INDUCTANCE per distance unit, not RECONNECTION. You also refused to answer any of my related questions about kinetic energy at two zero points in a magnetic field. You just keep flailing away, and trying to use completely unrelated work inside of ELECTRICAL DISCHARGE PLASMAS to support your case (Dungey/Yamada). Wow. Evidently you never intend to address those permeability questions or electrical discharge questions (Dungey) in any meaningful way.
 
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The existence of the Yamada et. al. does emphasis a problem that Michael Mozina seems to have: he is so convinced that his fantasies are correct that he ignores the actual science and any citations to the actual science.

Huh?

Let see. Clinger has name dropped four names now, Purcell, Jackson, Dungey and Yamada in support of his personal "reconnection experiment", two of which NEVER EVEN MENTIONED reconnection. The other two papers he keeps referring to (Dungey/Yamada) occur in PLASMAS, include ELECTRICAL DISCHARGES/Discharge chambers, and have NOTHING whatsoever to do with Clinger's personal 'experiment'. Would Clinger like to throw in Jesus and Einstein too as MR proponents? They never mentioned "magnetic reconnection" either, but that clearly doesn't seem to stop him from trying to use them to support his case.
 
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The sad part in your response to my participation in this thread is that you think that every participant should do so in order to check out the validity of anyone's statement. My comment was relevant, you just don't like it.

http://books.google.com/books?id=e6...onepage&q=electrical discharge dungey&f=false

I think it's reasonable to be asking yourself who's telling you the truth and who isn't. RC is in pure denial of the fact that both Dungey and Peratt described "electrical discharges" in plasmas. In fact Dungey (and Giovanelli before him) specifically linked flares to "electrical discharges" and Dungey specifically links "discharges" to "reconnection" events. The sad part is that you simply don't care to find out who's telling the truth.
 
That link is a play list of 5 videos. The easiest one to understand in the context of our discussion is Simulation of Magnetic Reconnection in a Dusty Plasma - DENISIS which shows the magnteic field lines curving into the null point at the center of the plasma to form an X and then reconnecting.

Oh, science by pretty "looks like a reconnection bunny" pictures. :) Where does the kinetic energy come from at two ZERO points in two magnetic fields RC? Dungey used ELECTRICAL DISCHARGES.
 
In other words, just like any good creationist, ..usual rant....
In other words, just like any honest person, W.D. Clinger is trying (obviously in vain) to educate you about the basic EM theory that the experiment I've been suggesting to Michael Mozina uses.

You continue to lie about his claim:
W.D. Clinger'sclaim is that you can use freshman-level EM to describe magnetic reconnection. His 2 'simple derivation' posts so far have used freshman-level EM to describe the magnetic field around a current carying rod.
FYI: Maxwell's equations are introduced to physics students in their first (freshman) year.

You continue to lie about his references:
W.D. Clinger has cited at least one freshman-level EM textbook, one book on magnetic reconnection and one magnetic reconnection paper (a 2010 review).

He refused to answer your 'kinetic energy at two zero points in a magnetic field' question becuase the question is
  1. Gibberish
  2. Nothing to do with his proposed experiment (no plasma = no particles = no kinetic energy).
Now try reading his posts again:
a simple derivation of magnetic reconnection, part 2
In the first part of this derivation and an erratum, we used 5 equations to derive the magnetic field B around a current-carrying rod.

In this part of the derivation, we will express that magnetic field in both cylindrical and Cartesian coordinates.

In part 3, we will show that the magnetic field around four current-carrying rods reproduces both of the figures in Dungey's 1958 paper, figure 3a in the survey paper by Yamada et al, and the still figure in Wikipedia's current article on magnetic reconnection.

So far this is definitely freshman EM: Maxwell's equations plus a bit of calculus.
 
In other words, just like any honest person, W.D. Clinger is trying (obviously in vain) to educate you about the basic EM theory that the experiment I've been suggesting to Michael Mozina uses.

An "honest" man would provide a PUBLISHED REFERENCE that was DIRECTLY RELATED to his actual experiment, he'd explain where the kinetic energy comes from, and he'd answer my questions about permeability and INDUCTANCE per unit length.
 
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So far this is definitely freshman EM: Maxwell's equations plus a bit of calculus.
You're right, but all of it relates to INDUCTANCE and not a single bit of it relates to "reconnection". Purcell never even mentioned "reconnection", but I'm sure he explained permeability and INDUCTANCE in his book.
 
Clingers use of circuit theory is quite ironic, particularly in current carrying plasma (like Yamada and Dungey) where Alfven's double layer paper makes MR theory OBSOLETE.
 
Oh, science by pretty "looks like a reconnection bunny" pictures. :)
Oh, science by plug the laws of physics into a completer simulation and see what we get - pretty pictures that illustrate the science :jaw-dropp !


This is not your very ignorant 'I see bunnies in the clouds' logic where you ignore the science in favor of your fantasies, e.g.
 
An "honest" man would provide a PUBLISHED REFERENCE that was DIRECTLY RELATED to his actual experiment, he'd explain where the kinetic energy comes from, and he'd answer my question about permeability and INDUCTANCE per unit length.
An honest man would not lie about what W.D. Clinger has stated.
He has never stated that the proposed experiment is in a PUBLISHED REFERENCE.
You have been cited many PUBLISHED REFERENCES on magnetic reconnection experiments that are DIRECTLY RELATED to his actual experiment.
He does not have to answer gibberish that is unrelated to his proposed experiment.

He does not have to cater to your delusions: Michael Mozina's delusion that permeability is inductance!
 
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