Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[smkovalinksy]

This reminds me of the case of Liz McLean, the social worker involved in the Orkney child abuse scandal. Even after the whole thing had been completely exploded as fantasy and imagination, she continued to repeat that she knew the whole satanic abuse thing had really happened. When interviewers pointed out that the children involved were and are adamant that no such thing occurred, she merely smiled slyly and knowingly and said that this sort of denial is exactly what you'd expect to encounter in a case like that.

Rolfe.

Yes, it does not stop with the fanatical mind----there simply is no persuading these types --- this has gone on numerous times here - also happened in the U.S. with the Charles Starkweather/Carol Fugate case. Carol was only 14 when her much older boyfriend killed her family, grabbed her as a hostage, and took her riding around on a several day killing spree. At 14, she was too terrified to break away, in the cold, snowy plains of Nebraska. When caught, he got the electric chair, she, life in prison. Finally, after lie detector tests, psychologists, etc., nearly 20 years had passed, and the Governor finally declared she was wrongfully convicted for culpability in the murders. She was set free, but many continued to see her as a crazed killer. Oy vey......

 

[smkovalinksy]

So SlimVirgin is on the side of the angels in the Kercher article? That's a turnup for the books!

Wikipedia and Lockerbie

Spies in Wikipedia




So yeah, weird.

Rolfe.

I agree, it is distinctly weird. But I thought YOU were SlimVirgin, you sly devil!

 

[Diocletus]

Interesting

So this is from Stefanie Kercher's open letter: "On November 1 at 9pm I will light a candle for my sister, may she rest in peace."

Does she believe that this is representative of when Meredith died?

 

[smkovalinksy]

So this is from Stefanie Kercher's open letter: "On November 1 at 9pm I will light a candle for my sister, may she rest in peace."

Does she believe that this is representative of when Meredith died?

It must be. And it fits in with Hendry's time of death, and the Guede as Lone Wolf Killer analysis. ETA: Unless it is simply the last known time when she was OK...

 

[Chris_Halkides]

pseudoarguments

Here are their crimes:
SNIP
5. Denial of Speedy Trial: The trial was too slow and Knox should have been free on bail while it proceeded.

Diocletus,

Thank you for this list. Although it could be argued that Knox was a flight risk, the same cannot be said of Sollecito. Moreover, other remedies existed besides precautionary detention even for Knox. Finally, the rationale for holding Knox included sexist pseudoarguments, whatever the merits of their case with respect to Knox's being a flight risk. That sort of nonsense should have been laughed out of court.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

interpreter versus mediator

She testified she saw her job as a mediator. A mediator tries to arrive at a compromise. When you compromise the truth you have a falsehood. She succeeded in creating a fantasy.

RoseMontague,

Great point and well spoken.

 

[Didaktylos]

Yes, it does not stop with the fanatical mind----there simply is no persuading these types --- this has gone on numerous times here - also happened in the U.S. with the Charles Starkweather/Carol Fugate case. Carol was only 14 when her much older boyfriend killed her family, grabbed her as a hostage, and took her riding around on a several day killing spree. At 14, she was too terrified to break away, in the cold, snowy plains of Nebraska. When caught, he got the electric chair, she, life in prison. Finally, after lie detector tests, psychologists, etc., nearly 20 years had passed, and the Governor finally declared she was wrongfully convicted for culpability in the murders. She was set free, but many continued to see her as a crazed killer. Oy vey......

I didn't know Fugate was pardoned - the version I've heard was that she simply qualified for parole in the ordinary course of events.

 

[Paninaro]

Frank's post is right on. It is a difficult read because it is all true. This is a very sad case but not a complicated one.

Well, it's the style he has chosen that's the problem, not was he's saying. Giving it in the form of a made up monologue by Meredith Kercher was not a very good idea. The family members of the victim sadly still seem convinced that Knox and Sollecito were guilty. The loss is theirs and her memory first and foremost belongs to them. Given that I understand how this can be seen as a provocation. I actually agree with the pro guilt people on this one, although there's no need to make too much of it. A mistake by Sfarzo, IMHO.

A belated thank you for all information on the case btw. The murder case is indeed over, but I however think justice still hasn't been done, since the calunnia conviction was upheld. It makes no sense whatsoever that an innocent person should get three years of prison for an alleged crime that would not have happened if the police had conducted the investigation of the crime in a proper fashion.

 

[Poppy1016]

Fugate was paroled in 1976 after serving 17 years in prison.

 

[smkovalinksy]

I didn't know Fugate was pardoned - the version I've heard was that she simply qualified for parole in the ordinary course of events.

Gee, maybe I have it wrong. I seem to recall her being pardoned, but if not, then I stand corrected. Bad example, then, but there are a myriad of others...

 

[smkovalinksy]

Fugate was paroled in 1976 after serving 17 years in prison.

OK. Thank you. I saw a special where the Governor spoke on her behalf, but I guess she was not pardoned.

ETA: She was denied a full pardon in 1996.

 

[smkovalinksy]

Well, it's the style he has chosen that's the problem, not was he's saying. Giving it in the form of a made up monologue by Meredith Kercher was not a very good idea. The family members of the victim sadly still seem convinced that Knox and Sollecito were guilty. The loss is theirs and her memory first and foremost belongs to them. Given that I understand how this can be seen as a provocation. I actually agree with the pro guilt people on this one, although there's no need to make too much of it. A mistake by Sfarzo, IMHO.

A belated thank you for all information on the case btw. The murder case is indeed over, but I however think justice still hasn't been done, since the calunnia conviction was upheld. It makes no sense whatsoever that an innocent person should get three years of prison for an alleged crime that would not have happened if the police had conducted the investigation of the crime in a proper fashion.

I think Sfarzo used this quite common literary technique because he hoped it would penetrate the psyche in a way that no other technique would - I think he knew it might initially offend the family and supporters, but felt he had to do it , for Meredith's sake as well as Knox and Sollecito's. I say bravo to him. It was well written.

 

[Diocletus]

On what legal basis?

The Vienna Convention on Consular Relations, Article 36:

if he so requests, the competent authorities of the receiving State shall, without delay, inform the consular post of the sending State if, within its consular district, a national of that State is arrested or committed to prison or to custody pending trial or is detained in any other manner. Any communication addressed to the consular post by the person arrested, in prison, custody or detention shall be forwarded by the said authorities without delay. The said authorities shall inform the person concerned without delay of his rights under this subparagraph

 

[Diocletus]

Was too slow in your opinion? Which authority determind this trial was slow? (three years for a second instance verdict is almost a record break in Italy)
Should there be a bail only for Knox where it does not exist by law?

I know it when I see it. Keeping an innocent person in jail for 4 years is outrageous, don't you think so?

 

[Osterwelle]

Hello and thank you!

Hello to all!

After I read about the acquittal I happen to come around these threads here and spend quite some time reading through a lot of pages since "Continuation Part 2". Now that I finally caught up I decided to register at JREF.

Before I start posting I'd like to give a big "Thank You!" to all who have shared their views and knowledge here. It was very interesting to read for someone who never heard much about this case before and I certainly learned a lot.

-
Osterwelle

 

[snook1]

Pilot,

It's over. You were wrong. Your friends were wrong. If you would have listened to me instead of calling me a liar, you would not have ended up on the wrong side of history. You chose to attack instead of listen. You lose.

What's wrong? Are you having trouble finding another case where you can use your talent to display multiple personalities from board to board?

I almost feel sorry for you. You are obviously in your twilight years; why all the anger? Relax and enjoy life. It all ends in a flash for all of us.

That's, actually, something that Pilot should read every morning before he decides to log in here and write something. Every freaking morning. Every line.

Also, what you wrote about Frank's latest piece - it's just as you've put it. Sad, disturbing but so very true.

Hi and welcome, Osterwelle.

 

[smkovalinksy]

Hello to all!

After I read about the acquittal I happen to come around these threads here and spend quite some time reading through a lot of pages since "Continuation Part 2". Now that I finally caught up I decided to register at JREF.

Before I start posting I'd like to give a big "Thank You!" to all who have shared their views and knowledge here. It was very interesting to read for someone who never heard much about this case before and I certainly learned a lot.

-
Osterwelle

Hi, and welcome!

 

[smkovalinksy]

Pilot,

It's over. You were wrong. Your friends were wrong. If you would have listened to me instead of calling me a liar, you would not have ended up on the wrong side of history. You chose to attack instead of listen. You lose.

What's wrong? Are you having trouble finding another case where you can use your talent to display multiple personalities from board to board?

I almost feel sorry for you. You are obviously in your twilight years; why all the anger? Relax and enjoy life. It all ends in a flash for all of us.

Well said, and I agree with snook1 that pilot ought to read this before he posts.

 

[Rolfe]

I don't know if this has been posted at PMF yet, but 3.... 2.... 1....

Amanda Knox prosecutor Giuliano Mignini back in court as a defendant

It was four years ago today that Italian police broke down a locked door inside a house in Perugia, Italy. There, they discovered the lifeless body of Meredith Kercher. Her throat was slit and the 21-year-old British student was lying on her bedroom floor in a pool of blood.

A few weeks later, police arrested Rudy Guede for the brutal murder. Police had found Guede's bloody fingerprints at the Kercher crime scene.

Within a year, Guede was tried, convicted and sentenced to 30 years in prison (later reduced to 16 years on appeal). That should have been that. But, of course, the case didn't end - or begin - with Guede.

By the time Rudy Guede was arrested in mid-November 2007, the Perugia authorities had made a profound error - they'd jumped the shark.

Rolfe.

 

[smkovalinksy]

I don't know if this has been posted at PMF yet, but 3.... 2.... 1....

Amanda Knox prosecutor Giuliano Mignini back in court as a defendant




Rolfe.

Thanks for posting! Yes, it was time for him to go back to court....I like this part, and will post it also on websleuths. Thanks!

On October 3, 2011 Italian Appellate Judge Claudio Pratillo Hellman acquitted Amanda Knox and Raffale Sollecito of the murder of Meredith Kercher and freed the two young defendants. The main prosecutor in the case, Giuliano Mignini was shocked by the court's verdict. Italian journalist Mario Spezi snapped a picture of Mignini at the exact moment the decision came down. It shows a man in pure agony.

Now, some Italians wonder if they will see that same expression on Mignini's face once again at the end of this month.

That's because Mignini is scheduled to return to an appellate court at the end of November. This time, he is not going as a prosecutor, but rather as a defendant. Two years ago, Mignini was convicted of abuse of office in another case. Though he was sentenced to 16 months in prison, Mignini is a free man who is allowed to remain a prosecutor pending the outcome of his appeal. If Mignini loses his November appeal, will he be out of the prosecutor's office - though he can still appeal to the Italian Supreme Court.

Prosecutor Mignini's resume has taken a tumble. While the world was watching last month, Mignini lost the Knox-Sollecito appeal. His witnesses were discredited; his DNA evidence was judged unreliable. Last year, Mignini lost a case against 20 defendants who the prosecution charged (some say fantasized) were part of a violent, Satanic cult. Then there is his own abuse of power conviction and possible prison sentence.

In the last few days, various media have wondered how, on the four year anniversary of Meredith Kercher's murder, Amanda Knox could have gone to a Halloween party, over the weekend in Seattle, dressed as a cat burglar.

Perhaps a better question would be how Giuliano Mignini continues to dress in the formal robes of an Italian prosecutor.