Occupy Wall Street better defend its identity

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stilicho said:
The Comedy Central guys are really bending over backwards to help make these people actually mean something but they just come across as dimwits. Why not send up people who actually make sense?
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You are assuming they have someone that actually makes sense. Justin and Ketchup seem to be the best spokespeople they have. Recall, she was part of the Ted Hall, III insane meltdown.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOkMizZjhBI&feature=related
 
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Stacko said:
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There's something vaguely racist in that Indian time thing. It reminded me of that episode of Penn & Teller's BS that had the cultural sensitivities consultant that was talking about Black and German time.
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I agree absolutely. It's also an evasion to the point of being a lie. Obviously they couldn't get anyone interested in marching on the church.

I don't live in Vancouver but where I'm from the churches in the poorer areas are among the best attended because the homeless have a place to rest and be warm for a portion of their Sundays.
 
It doesn't matter that OWS has no clear agenda at this stage. They have been effective in focusing attention on to Wall St. and they have not gone away quietly into the night. Regardless of whether the winter closes down the current protest in New York, I would bet that 2012 will bring a stronger and more focussed protest, especially as the economic climate will probably have deteriorated over the winter.

Also, there will be more revelations of the shady dealings of Wall St. Today we have the MF Global scandal, where it seems that one of the Fed's Primary Dealers has been appropriating their customer's cash:

(Reuters) - MF Global Holdings Ltd failed to protect customer accounts by keeping them separate from its own funds, said a top U.S. exchange regulator, another shock for commodity markets scrambling to contain fallout from the brokerage's bankruptcy. The revelation on Tuesday by CME Group Inc, MF Global's immediate regulator, suggests MF Global violated a central tenet of futures brokerage. It could put client money at risk and erode confidence in a market that for decades has enjoyed a sterling reputation for safety.
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One wonders how much of this is actually going on?
 
Alt+F4 said:
You are assuming they have someone that actually makes sense. Justin and Ketchup seem to be the best spokespeople they have. Recall, she was part of the Ted Hall, III insane meltdown.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOkMizZjhBI&feature=related
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I'm thinking they ought to fly RandFan to New York City to be their spokesperson. I don't intend that as any putdown either. He's making all kinds of sense here but what he's saying is not actually their agenda. Heck, they could fly me down there to be their spokesperson and I don't even agree with their approach. I need a generous cut of that $500,000 or whatever they're supposed to have raised but I can guarantee you I'm worth every penny.
 
stilicho said:
Should be pretty easy up there to identify the 1%. That would be just over 120 people. Or does this only work on a county, state, or national level?
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I'm sorry, and?

Do you agree with the Canadian "Adbusters" guy who thinks the OWS people should try to form a third party? IMO, that's absolute political suicide; much better to co-opt a Democrat or two or someone like Ron Paul. OTOH, they might just be scaring the hell out of the Democrats who figure they're going to split their party and send the moderates who voted for Obama for fun to vote for whichever mofo wins the Republican turkey shoot.
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Actually, I think we should pay Ann Coulter and Laura Ingraham to have a lesbian affair and cause scandal in the GOP because they don't have gay scandals.

Fun fact: If OWS had taken all their money on OCT 03 and invested it in Wall Street (S&P Index), and in spite of a couple of days of hits from EU indecision, they'd have earned a 14% return in one month! That's a whole lot of tofu!!
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See, we could have used that money to pay Ann and Laura.
 
I have been thinking that the OCW needs a simple unifying piece of legislation. And that is pass legislation that corporations are not persons in law. Take it away from the courts. By doing that corporations then can be barred from being involved in the political process. Politicians will no longer rely upon corporate money and as a result will not be beholden. The catch is they also won't be personally enriching themselves but that will be a choice they will have to make with everyone watching.

The script goes, fighting for democracy and is enemy is corporatism. The majority wants imperialism to end but corporations want militarism and its profits. So democracy looses. The push for this one piece of legislation will put the politicians on the spot. The optics will be clear. Is it self enrichment politicians are after or public service. The fight is to save democracy.

If the US leads every other country would follow and corporations will no longer have political influence as there will be no gains for the politician.

At G20 meetings the politicians meet in secret with corporate CEO's. That sort of thing will be brought to an end.

some will say but corporations provide all the jobs. With 30 years of corporations running legislation in the US, and with resultant job losses I think there is enough empirical evidence to prove that is a false statement.
 
Democracy Simulator said:
It doesn't matter that OWS has no clear agenda at this stage. They have been effective in focusing attention on to Wall St. and they have not gone away quietly into the night. Regardless of whether the winter closes down the current protest in New York, I would bet that 2012 will bring a stronger and more focussed protest, especially as the economic climate will probably have deteriorated over the winter.

Also, there will be more revelations of the shady dealings of Wall St. Today we have the MF Global scandal, where it seems that one of the Fed's Primary Dealers has been appropriating their customer's cash:

One wonders how much of this is actually going on?
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Yeah, that was my feelings also. I think the belittling and demeaning of the movement by the folks in their ivory towers will just make things worse. It blows me away that they honestly think the solution is to mock and try to discredit them. People who are facing homelessness, loss of health insurance with little to no prospects of finding jobs are not going to be influenced by that. And many who are not suffering know people that are.

It's just really dumb IMO.
 
Democracy Simulator said:
It doesn't matter that OWS has no clear agenda at this stage. They have been effective in focusing attention on to Wall St. and they have not gone away quietly into the night. Regardless of whether the winter closes down the current protest in New York, I would bet that 2012 will bring a stronger and more focussed protest, especially as the economic climate will probably have deteriorated over the winter.

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You've got it exactly. It's a Doomsday Cult and it actually requires that things get worse to survive.

This is the exact opposite of the various Arab Spring-style popular flashmobs-cum-tyrant-topplings seen elsewhere. Those protests are based on things improving in the long-term in spite of sacrifice on the part of the participants.

I don't think OWS knows the meaning of the word "sacrifice". I'll bet "Ketchup" doesn't even have an appropriate hand sign for it.
 
debunker of debunker said:
I have been thinking that the OCW needs a simple unifying piece of legislation. And that is pass legislation that corporations are not persons in law.
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Not possible. Congress can not legislate away a Supreme Court decision. What would be needed is a Constitutional Amendment or the Supreme Court can overrule itself through another case it hears (Brown v. Board of Ed. overruled Plessy v. Fergurson).
 
Alt+F4 said:
Not possible. Congress can not legislate away a Supreme Court decision. What would be needed is a Constitutional Amendment or the Supreme Court can overrule itself through another case it hears (Brown v. Board of Ed. overruled Plessy v. Fergurson).
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I keep forgetting this thing is in the US Politics forum. That's why everyone's proposing US solutions. But there are Occupy Whatevers all over the place except in the communist countries where everyone's apparently very pleased with the economic situation.

Shouldn't this thread be in Social Affairs or Economics/True Crime or something? Sports? Humour?
 
stilicho said:
You've got it exactly. It's a Doomsday Cult and it actually requires that things get worse to survive.
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I don't buy that. It's a statistical thing. I think to survive the status quo just need continue. Things getting worse will simply increase the likelyhood of its survival.

Odd thing is, I would VERY MUCH like for things to get better and OWS die. That would make me happy. Are the powers that be likely to actually do something to fix anything? That's the important question.

I honestly don't think most politicians give a damn about anything or anyone except the people who pay for their campaigns and what the people who pay for their campaigns want. Sadly most campaign money comes from those who want the status quo. Those who don't give a rats ass about people out of work.

God forbid that the rich should sacrifice one goddamn dime more than they already are. Because we all know that for the rich there is no such thing as enough.
 
RandFan said:
It's been done. Turns out that the appropriate authorities are promised cushy jobs after they leave the public sector by the very people they are supposed to investigate, so they investigate, ask the the financial institutions to self regulate and then they destroy all records of the investigation. No, I'm NOT making that up.

S.E.C. Files Were Illegally Destroyed, Lawyer Says

Taibbi on SEC’s Records Destruction Reveals How Deeply Entrenched Official Corrpution Is
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Alert appropriate investigators.
 
stilicho said:
I keep forgetting this thing is in the US Politics forum. That's why everyone's proposing US solutions.
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Actually, House of Representatives member Donna Edwards recently introduced a resolution to overturn the Citizens United decision by adding a 28th Amendment to the Constitution. OWS is not supporting her efforts, they are too busy working on developing their General Assembly into becoming the world's new Politburo.
 
respect said:
Alert appropriate investigators.
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? That is, in essence, what we are doing now. THAT'S the bleeding point. The appropriate investigators won't do anything so we are protesting. You've heard of protesting? Freedom of speech? When the system doesn't work and the appropriate investigators and appropriate authorities won't do anything you protest. That's the stage where we are at right now. See, it's like this, there were these folks who sought redress from King George and he ignored them just as the investigators, authorities and legislature are ignoring us now.. So these folks decided to do something about. Once they kicked King George's ass out of the colonies they realized that the right to protest was important so they enshrined freedom of speech and the right to redress into our constitution.

Kinda cool don't ya think?

And it wasn't just in America either. Throughout history the "appropriate authorities" have ignored people and paid a price. You should check out the French Revolution, or the Bolshevik revolution, hell, Google Revolution. Sometimes notifying the authorities just doesn't cut it.

Got it?
 
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RandFan said:
? That is, in essence, what we are doing now. THAT'S the bleeding point. The appropriate investigators won't do anything so we are protesting. You've heard of protesting? Freedom of speech? When the system doesn't work and the appropriate investigators and appropriate authorities won't do anything you protest. That's the stage where we are at right now. See, it's like this, there were these folks who sought redress from King George and he ignored them just as the investigators, authorities and legislature are ignoring us now.. So these folks decided to do something about. Once they kicked King George's ass out of the colonies they realized that the right to protest was important so they enshrined freedom speech and the right to redress into our constitution.

Kinda cool don't ya think.

And it wasn't just in America either. Throughout history the "appropriate authorities" have ignored people and paid a price. You should check out the French Revolution, or the Bolshevik revolution, hell, Google Revolution. Sometimes notifying the authorities just doesn't cut it.

Got it?
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You are largely contacting the wrong authorities, according to Taibbi, you need to contact Goldman Sachs, they secretly rule the world.
 
respect said:
You are largely contacting the wrong authorities, according to Taibbi, you need to contact Goldman Sachs, they secretly rule the world.
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No, it's the right authorities. Even with Sachs considerable power (I've read just about everything Taibbi has written and I don't think that is his take) regardless the US has the ability, if it had the will, to do something about it. If Teddy Roosevelt could break up monopolies then we can do it now. We just have to convince our legislature that we matter more than the money of Sachs. That's not an easy thing to do and that's Taibbi's point. Sachs can spend billions on politicians and still that would be a fraction of its wealth. Money well spent if it brings in billions more.
 
RandFan said:
And it wasn't just in America either. Throughout history the "appropriate authorities" have ignored people and paid a price. You should check out the French Revolution, or the Bolshevik revolution, hell, Google Revolution. Sometimes notifying the authorities just doesn't cut it.
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And with the exception of the Google Revolution these other revolutions were violent and resulted in the deaths of tens of thousands of persons. OWS is not advocating violent revolution, they don't want to fix, reform or make government/society better, they want to replace government/society with their particular form of communism which they try to spin as "direct democracy".
 
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