JFK Conspiracy Theories: It Never Ends

[Tomtomkent]

No, first try to make a point.

A point was already made. Why do you need conditions to be met to read the evidence you asked for? Any chance of you proving this conspiracy allegation of yours any time soon? Or is there no evidence to sway from the null?

 

[Tomtomkent]

This is a small space. Name one item, not a thousand.

So you admit the weight of evidence is a thousand to none in favour of LHO being the shooter? Ok so what is wrong with the thousand pieces of evidence against you? What is your problem with the size of space in these posts?

Where is your one piece of evidence?

Let me make it easy.… all you have to do is say "this proves a conspiracy" and provide a single piece of evidence. Go ahead.

Until then the Warren comission and material evidence, despite a number of minor failings and gaps, almost entirely from unreliable eye witness statements, place LHO with a rifle in his hand.

 

[I Ratant]

From the source:
http://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/warren-commission-report/chapter-3.html#testimony
.
Warren Commission Report
Chapter 3.
"The Shots from the Texas School Book Depository"
.
Description of Rifle

The bolt-action, clip-fed rifle found on the sixth floor of the Depository, described more fully in appendix X, is inscribed with various markings, including "MADE ITALY," "CAL. 6.5," "1940" and the number C2766.126 (See Commission Exhibit Nos. 1303, 541(2) and 541 (3), pp. 82-83.) These markings have been explained as follows: "MADE ITALY" refers to its origin; "CAL. 6.5" refers to the rifle's caliber; "1940" refers to the year of manufacture; and the number C2766 is the serial number. This rifle is the only one of its type bearing that serial number.127 After review of standard reference works and the markings on the rifle, it was identified by the FBI as a 6.5-millimeter model 91/38 Mannlicher-Carcano rifle.128 Experts from the FBI made an independent determination of the caliber by inserting a Mannlicher-Carcano 6.5-millimeter cartridge into the weapon for fit, and by making a sulfur cast of the inside of the weapon's barrel and measuring
the cast with a micrometer.129 From outward appearance, the weapon would appear to be a 7.35-millimeter rifle, but its mechanism had been rebarreled with a 6.5-millimeter barrel.
130 Constable Deputy Sheriff Weitzman, who only saw the rifle at a glance and did not handle it, thought the weapon looked like a 7.65 Mauser bolt-action rifle.131
(See chapter V, p. 235.)
.
After making independent examinations, both Frazier and Nicol positively identified the nearly whole bullet from the stretcher and the two larger bullet fragments found in the Presidential limousine as having been fired in the C2766 Mannlicher-Carcano rifle found in the Depository to the exclusion of all other weapons.142 Each of the two bullet fragments had sufficient unmutilated area to provide the basis for an identification.
.
Easy, innit?
.
I visited two local gun shops looking for a Mauser today.
Found 4.
None were the 1896 carbine that had the below-stock magazine, but also, none of them had the name "MAUSER" nor the caliber visible on any part of the action.

 

[Robert Prey]

From the source:
http://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/warren-commission-report/chapter-3.html#testimony
.
Warren Commission Report
Chapter 3.
"The Shots from the Texas School Book Depository"
.
Description of Rifle

The bolt-action, clip-fed rifle found on the sixth floor of the Depository, described more fully in appendix X, is inscribed with various markings, including "MADE ITALY," "CAL. 6.5," "1940" and the number C2766.126 (See Commission Exhibit Nos. 1303, 541(2) and 541 (3), pp. 82-83.) These markings have been explained as follows: "MADE ITALY" refers to its origin; "CAL. 6.5" refers to the rifle's caliber; "1940" refers to the year of manufacture; and the number C2766 is the serial number. This rifle is the only one of its type bearing that serial number.127 After review of standard reference works and the markings on the rifle, it was identified by the FBI as a 6.5-millimeter model 91/38 Mannlicher-Carcano rifle.128 Experts from the FBI made an independent determination of the caliber by inserting a Mannlicher-Carcano 6.5-millimeter cartridge into the weapon for fit, and by making a sulfur cast of the inside of the weapon's barrel and measuring
the cast with a micrometer.129 From outward appearance, the weapon would appear to be a 7.35-millimeter rifle, but its mechanism had been rebarreled with a 6.5-millimeter barrel.
130 Constable Deputy Sheriff Weitzman, who only saw the rifle at a glance and did not handle it, thought the weapon looked like a 7.65 Mauser bolt-action rifle.131
(See chapter V, p. 235.)
.
After making independent examinations, both Frazier and Nicol positively identified the nearly whole bullet from the stretcher and the two larger bullet fragments found in the Presidential limousine as having been fired in the C2766 Mannlicher-Carcano rifle found in the Depository to the exclusion of all other weapons.142 Each of the two bullet fragments had sufficient unmutilated area to provide the basis for an identification.
.
Easy, innit?
.
I visited two local gun shops looking for a Mauser today.
Found 4.
None were the 1896 carbine that had the below-stock magazine, but also, none of them had the name "MAUSER" nor the caliber visible on any part of the action.

Apparently there was an m/c found at the TSBD. But on a lower floor. I question the "exclusion of all other weapons" assertion, but nonetheless, doesn't prove Oswald it, nor to the exclusion of of other shooters.

 

[Tomtomkent]

Apparently there was an m/c found at the TSBD. But on a lower floor. I question the "exclusion of all other weapons" assertion, but nonetheless, doesn't prove Oswald it, nor to the exclusion of of other shooters.

And that assertion is?

The ballistics tie to the rifle. The rifle ties to Oswald. No evidence has been supplied to suggest an alternative weapon. The word "Apparently" is not evidence.

 

[Robert Prey]

So you admit the weight of evidence is a thousand to none in favour of LHO being the shooter? Ok so what is wrong with the thousand pieces of evidence against you? What is your problem with the size of space in these posts?

Where is your one piece of evidence?

Let me make it easy.… all you have to do is say "this proves a conspiracy" and provide a single piece of evidence. Go ahead.

Until then the Warren comission and material evidence, despite a number of minor failings and gaps, almost entirely from unreliable eye witness statements, place LHO with a rifle in his hand.

You might interpret a thousand items of evidence as leading to one single shooter or a single perp. I would suggest that all those items of evidence could also point to the framing of a patsy. I have two items of evidence proving a conspiracy. The first I can summarize in just two words. But first, I want to hear from all you "critical thinkers" just what ipso facto evidence you have for your Lone Nutter dogma.

 

[Robert Prey]

Yawn. There were plenty of chances for him to see the rifle and by his own admission he was not an expert. He saw what looked like a Mauser, being less than 20 years out of WW2 Mausers were probabaly the 1st bolt action rifle that would come to an average American detective's mind, especially when presented with a rifle of very similar design. This is not a strech, so you don't need any fanciful nonsense like this:



Speculative, paranoid nonsense that cannot even remotely be taken seriously. This is the dreck 'evidence' we are to expect from you?!

There was no evidence of a Mauser, no Mauser brass, and no Mauser bullets to be found anywhere in Dealy plaza. The Carcano resembles a Mauser and it is an easy mistake to make.



Craig told a lot of tales, as my previous link on him showed. but your silly, paranoid fantasy ramblings about his suicide being an asassination is ludicrous.

And Craig was contradictory about it being a Mauser: http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/craig.htm#mauser

You'll get a better response from me if you stick to one point at a time. JFK Assassination Careerist Debunker Macadams cites Craig's statement that
". A few years later, when he was interviewed for "Two Men in Dallas," Craig claimed to have viewed the rifle close-up and seen the notation "7.65 Mauser."

Just what I pointed out.

 

[Robert Prey]

Then the burden is on you to show there were additional assassins.

And "show" means provide evidence, not spam a couple of unsupported claims.

Thanks. I'll keep that in mind when I give my proof in just two words.

 

[Tomtomkent]

Thanks. I'll keep that in mind when I give my proof in just two words.

Will it be any time soon? As I can't see any reason for you having failed to produce it so far.

Two words leaves little room for citation however. And as "no evidence" is now truly debunked your work is cut out.

 

[Tomtomkent]

You might interpret a thousand items of evidence as leading to one single shooter or a single perp. I would suggest that all those items of evidence could also point to the framing of a patsy. I have two items of evidence proving a conspiracy. The first I can summarize in just two words. But first, I want to hear from all you "critical thinkers" just what ipso facto evidence you have for your Lone Nutter dogma.

BUZZZZZ! And we have an epic fail! Conclusive proof for a lone shooter is not required because LHO IS THE ONLY SHOOTER FOR WHICH THERE IS ANY EVIDENCE. Leaving the only reasonable surmisation not to be "Patsy" for which you have supplied NO EVIDENCE AT ALL.

Telling us you have evidence is worth zero. If it is coherent evidence there is absolutely no reason why it would require our opinions to be heard first. Supply it, or leave. What is there not to get?

 

[carlitos]

Thanks. I'll keep that in mind when I give my proof in just two words.

Super. Could you at least tell us the date for the upcoming big reveal of your "proof in just two words?" I want to make sure I'm tuned in, refreshing the screen so as not to miss it. This news could rock the world.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Tomtomkent]

You'll get a better response from me if you stick to one point at a time. JFK Assassination Careerist Debunker Macadams cites Craig's statement that
". A few years later, when he was interviewed for "Two Men in Dallas," Craig claimed to have viewed the rifle close-up and seen the notation "7.65 Mauser."

Just what I pointed out.

And you will get better responses from us when you:
1) Supply evidence.
2) Offer reasonable hypothosis based upon evidence.
3) Stop making pathetic excuses about there being TOO MUCH evidence against you. You know what, if people offer too many points addres them one at a time. But don't complain about how much evidence is being supplied. Especially when you supply NONE.

 

[Tomtomkent]

As lets be honest, it can "suggest" the framing of the patsy, but with out evidence this happened, we might as well say "It points to a robot from the future!" When that "evidence" for framing the patsy includes only claims post mortem palm prints, and a rifle that was NOT connected to Oswald apparently framing him, with no tangible (or sensible) reason why this would be the case, no evidence of a conspiracy, no evidence of conspiritors to do the framing, no evidence of need for a patsy, and no reason to discount the most obvious conclusion (itself supported by TOO MUCH evidence apparently) why do we assume "conspiracy", or "werewolves", "vampires", "time travelling robots", "Dave Lister", "angles", "UFOS", or literally anything else it COULD point to with out evidence?



Because a guy promises evidence at some point? Nope. Not good enough.

The burden of proof is proving a conspiracy before proving LHO was the patsy. The burden has yet to be carried.

 

[Monza]

Thanks. I'll keep that in mind when I give my proof in just two words.

I have this sinking feeling that those words are going to be, "You Tube".

 

[Tomtomkent]

Or worse another "Two Oswalds!" mallarky. Urgh.

 

[Walter Ego]

So, in a few words, exactly what is your point?

Oh, I see, you don't like to read posts with more than one paragraph. Is English your second language? You also have trouble expressing yourself clearly. And you still haven't provided any evidence for whatever conspiracy theory you're peddling. (Hint: Unsourced assertions from books by conspiracy writers is not evidence.)

You need help, Robert. You are heading towards an epic fail. Do you have any conspiracy-minded buds who could drop by and give you a helping hand?

The conspiracy community regularly seizes on one slip of the tongue, misunderstanding, or slight discrepancy to defeat twenty pieces of solid evidence; accepts one witness of theirs, even if he or she is a provable nut, as being far more credible than ten normal witnesses on the other side; treats rumors, even questions, as the equivalent of proof; leaps from the most minuscule of discoveries to the grandest of conclusions; and insists that the failure to explain everything perfectly negates all that is explained. Page xliii

Reclaiming History: The Assassination of President John F. Kennedy by Vincent Bugliosi

 

[Monza]

Here's a question I submit no one dare answer: What is the one single strongest piece of evidence proving a lone assassin?

You seem to be avoiding Walter Ego's post #53. But to summarize his list into a "single piece of evidence"... The bullet that struck Kennedy and Connaly originated from the location where a rifle (owned by Oswald with his prints on it) was found and where Oswald was seen that day.

 

[Tomtomkent]

You seem to be avoiding Walter Ego's post #53. But to summarize his list into a "single piece of evidence"... The bullet that struck Kennedy and Connaly originated from the location where a rifle (owned by Oswald with his prints on it) was found and where Oswald was seen that day.

My statement would be: "There is no single piece of evidence, to claim thus would be to have unrealistic expectations. There are however many smaller pieces that fit together to give a case which is proven beyond reasonable doubt, with no other satisfactory alternative, and no evidence to support further layers of conspiracy."

To expect a single piece of magic evidence is to misunderstand the process entirely. And by extension to misunderstand how reality tends to work. The palm prints on the rifle that fired the shots, in the location the shots were fired from, is more than reasonable.

 

[Mudcat]

No, the burden is on those who make the accusation.

You are making the accusation here, no one else, of a conspiracy so that would be your cue to start producing evidence.... you know, just in case you got confused by hard wards or distracted by a shiny object or something.

 

[I Ratant]

Apparently there was an m/c found at the TSBD. But on a lower floor. I question the "exclusion of all other weapons" assertion, but nonetheless, doesn't prove Oswald it, nor to the exclusion of of other shooters.

.
You are lost forever in the conspiracy sewers.
"Warren Commission Report
Chapter 3.
"The Shots from the Texas School Book Depository"
.
Description of Rifle

The bolt-action, clip-fed rifle found on the sixth floor of the Depository, described more fully in appendix X, is inscribed with various markings, including "MADE ITALY," "CAL. 6.5," "1940" and the number C2766.126 (See Commission Exhibit Nos. 1303, 541(2) and 541 (3), pp. 82-83.)