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Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

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Saggy said:
"125 square feet" is a quote from the original published version, which is the English version published in New York City.
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Ummmmmmm.

No.

The *original* published version was written in Polish and published in Warsaw.

The version to which you refer is a mediocre translation of that original.

Do you read Polish? How about the Yiddish version he worked on?

No?


Okay, then on what page of this English translation do you find the 'quotation' in question?

What's that? Whomever told you those other lies didn't give you the page number?

Check with your buddy the library janitor, maybe he knows.
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Now Saggy or Seven Up (for it is he) must know that there is a long standing Rodoh thread created solely to document the excesses of the monolithic Codoh moderator, "Hannover." and his regime and his "non right to reply," approach to debate and discussion. Or just have a good look at Hans last post in the bunker. That's in the non censorious Codoh forum.

Before Hannover deletes it.
 
Saggy said:
"125 square feet" is a quote from the original published version, which is the English version published in New York City.
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Actually, it was first published in Yiddish and then in Polish. English was third. And whoever translated it into English got the dimensions incorrect, as the Yiddish has 125 square meters.

You really don't know anything about anything, do you?
 
Wroclaw said:
Actually, it was first published in Yiddish
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That's not the lie. Here is the lie ....

He made his way back to Warsaw and knocked on the door of Stefan Krzywoszewski, a Polish newspaper editor, according to a 1979 account edited by Alexander Donat. Wiernik was put in touch with leaders of the Bund and the Jewish underground movement, who encouraged him to write what he had witnessed. His story was set in type in a clandestine Warsaw print shop, and 2,000 copies of the booklet were published in Polish in May 1944.

Read more: http://forward.com/articles/104670/#ixzz1bzSSwHQR

And a challenge to Nick Terry ...... let's see a link to a copy of the published Polish version.
 
Either way, English isn't the language that it was first written in and it would appear that there was a translation error.

Where is the lie in Wiernik's account?
 
TSR said:
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Got any of that, you know, *proof* thingy that your excerpt is a lie?
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Sure. But why? You don't read Polski...
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Utwór chroniony prawem autorskim. Publikacja cyfrowa jest dostępna na stanowiskach komputerowych w czytelniach Biblioteki Narodowej.

This work is protected by copyright. Digital publication is accessible on computer in the reading-rooms of the National Library.

http://www.polona.pl/dlibra/doccontent?id=7149&from=PIONIER DLF

cue conspiracy theory in 1, 2, 3....
 
Saggy said:
That's not the lie. Here is the lie ....

He made his way back to Warsaw and knocked on the door of Stefan Krzywoszewski, a Polish newspaper editor, according to a 1979 account edited by Alexander Donat. Wiernik was put in touch with leaders of the Bund and the Jewish underground movement, who encouraged him to write what he had witnessed. His story was set in type in a clandestine Warsaw print shop, and 2,000 copies of the booklet were published in Polish in May 1944.

Read more: http://forward.com/articles/104670/#ixzz1bzSSwHQR

And a challenge to Nick Terry ...... let's see a link to a copy of the published Polish version.
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As soon as the gassing was over, Ivan and Nicholas investigated the results, passed over to the other side, opened the door leading to the platform, and proceeded to heave out the gassed victims. It was our lot to carry the corpses to the graves. We were dead tired from working all day on the construction job, but there was no one to appeal to and we had to obey. We could have refused, but that would have meant a whipping or death in the same manner, so we obeyed without grumbling.

Between 10,000 and 12,000 people were gassed daily. We built a narrow gauge track and drove the corpses, on the rolling platform, to the graves.

Read more: http://forward.com/articles/104670/#ixzz1bzjl2nfA
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Ah, the truth.
 
Nick Terry said:
Utwór chroniony prawem autorskim. Publikacja cyfrowa jest dostępna na stanowiskach komputerowych w czytelniach Biblioteki Narodowej.

This work is protected by copyright. Digital publication is accessible on computer in the reading-rooms of the National Library.

http://www.polona.pl/dlibra/doccontent?id=7149&from=PIONIER DLF

cue conspiracy theory in 1, 2, 3....
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Hey, I can't always be right. Do you read Polish? Is the English version a more or less word for word translation? Does Wiernik say 125 sq. meters or sq. feet? 125 sq meters would make the 'gas chamber' about 11m x 11 m or 33 ft by 33 ft, are these the consistent dimensions of the 'gas chamber' that Wiernik gives?
 
One also wonders why a European in 1944 would have been referring to measurements using feet...
 
Wroclaw said:
One also wonders why a European in 1944 would have been referring to measurements using feet...
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FEET? Your great-grands had feet? Mine had to walk on the bloody raw stumps of their shins through chest high snow to get to school -- uphill both ways.

And they were *proud* to do it...
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TSR said:
Ok, what parameters do you want to define?
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Assumptions about size. Broadly, what are we going to take 'judicial notice' of?


If this is relevant to the parameters you want to use, make a positive statement about the matter and be prepared to defend it.
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I'm not going to rely on a source that I'm then told isn't reliable. Nobody here has the ability to go back in time with a tape measure and walk around the perimeter and inside of all the death camps to see how big these structures are. And if someone actually did, how would he prove it to the satisfaction of people on the internet?

We have to rely on the published research of others. Is Arad a reliable source? Has he been usurped by some new hot shot AR camp researcher? Is there information in Arad's BST that has been updated?

We need to make the assumption that somewhere in and among all the material that has been published about the holocaust, there is information that is accurate and current. As far as I know, Arad is the gold standard for the AR camps. If I'm wrong, tell me so and give me another source I can use.

Everything I know and I'll bet everything you know about Belzec Sobibor and Treblinka as well, was learned by reading books written by other people whom we believe know what they're talking about. If we don't agree on who these people are then we'll never be able to discuss this issue.


Note that you were *not* requested to ask random questions in return.
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Note that *you* did not ask any questions. Uke2se did. I'm not talking to you. If you want to enter the discussion you will answer my questions.



Is there a reason you bring up right-to-life? Has anyone, anyone at all in this thread done so, or is this yet another lame attempt on your part to distract from the fact that you have once again made a claim you cannot or at best will not support?
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I have seen stories that were published on Christian or extremist websites referring to the places where abortion clinics dump their trash as "mass graves." I want to limit the definition of a "mass grave" to include only full term humans.

If you believe this 'largest mass grave ever found' is relevant, make a positive statement about the matter and be prepared to defend it.
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Yes it is relevant because size matters. Conducting a quick internet search for the largest mass graves ever found will give you some interesting results as far as the number of bodies. But they are only of limited use because they don't provide a way to calculate cubic dimensions.

But still, documented mass graves existing outside of the holocaust are different in size compared to those existing inside the holocaust. If you believe this is not the case, please do some research and find what you believe is the largest non-holocaust mass grave. The scale of the difference might be instructive.


Note that you were *not* requested to ask random questions instead of documenting that the original claim wasn't just you talking out of the hole in your keyboard.
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And again, *you* will answer questions, not ask.


Or are you going to lie again about how everyone accepts your premise in general and that quibbling about its details is all that's left?
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No, I'm going to predict that nobody, especially not you, will agree to some basic details about the camps in question. You will not agree who is a reliable a source and will demand that I defend my choice of Arad.

I'm not going to waste my time doing that. As I've said, I know that we both get our information about the AR camps from sources we believe are reliable. If you believe my source isn't reliable, it's because you rely on a different source that you believe is better. So simply tell me who that is and we can go from there.

Please be aware that if you won't agree with me that I can use Arad as a source, and you won't tell me who I can, you'll be admitting that 1) you don't know if Arad is reliable because you haven't read anything about the AR camps and shouldn't be participating in this discussion or 2) there simply are no reliable sources for accurate information about the most thoroughly documented crime in history. Or both.
 
uke2se said:
Pretty much what TSR said. Prove your assertion. Then you can ask questions.
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I will prove my assertions. But only if you agree on some basics first. Can we take judicial notice of what Arad wrote in BST? That is, can we agree that what Arad said about the nature and character of the AR camps is an accurate reflection of what holocaust historians believe today? If not, who is a better source?

I predict you'll dance around answering because being unable to nail down any specifics about the holocaust is what keeps it alive. As long as it's a soft gelatinous mass that can ooze out of it's contradictions, it remains unfalsifiable. But if it firms up a little, it becomes a little bit more fragile. That's why you avoid agreeing to any hard data--you know that if the holocaust gets hard, I can nail it.
 
Dogzilla said:
Assumptions about size. Broadly, what are we going to take 'judicial notice' of?




I'm not going to rely on a source that I'm then told isn't reliable. Nobody here has the ability to go back in time with a tape measure and walk around the perimeter and inside of all the death camps to see how big these structures are. And if someone actually did, how would he prove it to the satisfaction of people on the internet?

We have to rely on the published research of others. Is Arad a reliable source? Has he been usurped by some new hot shot AR camp researcher? Is there information in Arad's BST that has been updated?

We need to make the assumption that somewhere in and among all the material that has been published about the holocaust, there is information that is accurate and current. As far as I know, Arad is the gold standard for the AR camps. If I'm wrong, tell me so and give me another source I can use.

Everything I know and I'll bet everything you know about Belzec Sobibor and Treblinka as well, was learned by reading books written by other people whom we believe know what they're talking about. If we don't agree on who these people are then we'll never be able to discuss this issue.




Note that *you* did not ask any questions. Uke2se did. I'm not talking to you. If you want to enter the discussion you will answer my questions.





I have seen stories that were published on Christian or extremist websites referring to the places where abortion clinics dump their trash as "mass graves." I want to limit the definition of a "mass grave" to include only full term humans.



Yes it is relevant because size matters. Conducting a quick internet search for the largest mass graves ever found will give you some interesting results as far as the number of bodies. But they are only of limited use because they don't provide a way to calculate cubic dimensions.

But still, documented mass graves existing outside of the holocaust are different in size compared to those existing inside the holocaust. If you believe this is not the case, please do some research and find what you believe is the largest non-holocaust mass grave. The scale of the difference might be instructive.




And again, *you* will answer questions, not ask.





No, I'm going to predict that nobody, especially not you, will agree to some basic details about the camps in question. You will not agree who is a reliable a source and will demand that I defend my choice of Arad.

I'm not going to waste my time doing that. As I've said, I know that we both get our information about the AR camps from sources we believe are reliable. If you believe my source isn't reliable, it's because you rely on a different source that you believe is better. So simply tell me who that is and we can go from there.

Please be aware that if you won't agree with me that I can use Arad as a source, and you won't tell me who I can, you'll be admitting that 1) you don't know if Arad is reliable because you haven't read anything about the AR camps and shouldn't be participating in this discussion or 2) there simply are no reliable sources for accurate information about the most thoroughly documented crime in history. Or both.
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Proximity is a key to the Holohoax myth. 10000 people who pee at least three times a day are waiting to be gassed. Nobody notices that today's 10000 are different from the previous days 10000?

Where do 7, 8 , 9 thousand people WAIT in a camp? It's called staging.
Do they get meals? Do they get water?
 
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