UFOs: The Research, the Evidence

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All common dictionary definitions and all official definitions separate UFOs from mere flying objects that are unidentified by characteristics that indicate that they cannot be explained by conventional means and/or are in some way extraordinary. Some dictionaries include a reference to flying saucers as part of the definition, and of course we know flying saucers are thought to be alien craft. [my emphasis]

Not really.

From www.merriam-webster.com:
UFO: an unidentified flying object; especially : flying saucer
Flying Saucer: any of various unidentified flying objects usually described as being saucer-shaped or disk-shaped

From www.thefreedictionary.com
UFO: abbreviation for unidentified flying object

From Random House College Dictionary, rev. ed. 1984
UFO: unidentified flying object
 
If you just want to ignore what I'm saying and are looking for an excuse to join the ufology bashers club here then go ahead


It's not a matter of joining any "club." That false dichotomy is typical pseudoscience persecution complex claptrap. There's no "ufology bashers club." One does not need to subscribe to any particular ideology to recognize the obvious fundamental flaws in your redefinitions of words.

You seem to be operating on a misguided belief that promoting changes in the meanings of key English language words will somehow magically cause outer space aliens to become accepted without evidence. You need to realize that fiddling around with semantics in this way is not fooling anybody. It doesn't fool the editors of Wikipedia, it doesn't even fool the UFOnauts over at the Paracast Forums, so why would you expect it to fly here?
 
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As far as McClelland is concerned, I was doing some research on Kecksburg. He was one of the original promoters of the case when he wrote an article for Len Stringfield about it. McClelland basically copied the flawed work of Ivan Sanderson and threw a few interviews with locals in to flavor it. He, as all the Kecksburg crash advocates, completely ignored all the scientific evidence suggesting it was just a bright fireball. We have been over that in this thread. If McClelland was hyping a UFO non-event in 1980, it does not say much for his objectivity if you ask me. McClelland was working with NASA at one time but that does not make him much of an expert if you ask me especially when he ignores scientific data (as in Kecksburg).
A cursory look at the Stargate Chronicles site is sufficient to raise woo flags here with his hyping the debunked STS-48 video (the thruster/ice crystals one) another example of ignorance. Hand-waving about the 'Shadow Government' is another red flag. Oh, did I say he needed money?

Those that want more info should go to the ATS site and look for Jim Oberg's postings. Woos beware, it ain't pretty. :)
 
He calls his website, "Stargate Chronicles" and presents it as fact. That should indicate something fishy right there.
 
Krikkiter,

If you just want to ignore what I'm saying and are looking for an excuse to join the ufology bashers club here then go ahead, I'm sure they'd be glad to have you. However if you are serious about understanding ufology, and insist you saw a UFO, then you need to explain why the object you saw can't be explained as something conventional.

You admit that you have a sneaking suspicion the object was a satellite, so what reason have you given for me to think it was anything other than that? None. What made it so extraordinary that you can justify calling it a UFO? Please explain.
Category error.

Just because a sighting has a potential mundane cause does not mean that that explanation is definitively the cause of the sighting.

In the above you are effictively stating that any potential explanation ends the discussion, which is absurd.

Let's take an example.

In the Rogue River case the diagrams supplied by the witnesses bear a striking resemblance to a blimp, and we know that there was a blimp in the general area just a few days before. However, this doesn't mean that the sighting was definitely caused by misperception of a blimp, just that it's possible, or even probable. It remains unidentified, because we don't know whether or not any blimps were actually there on the day in question, and without that knowledge no positive identification can be made. It remains a UFO.
 
Not really.

(snip)

And some print dictionaries, as I just returned from the library where I was helping students with research and had a lot of free time on my hands:

American Heritage Collegiate: UFO: unidentified flying object
American Heritage Dictionary: UFO: unidentified flying object
Funk and Wagnall's Dictionary: UFO: unidentified flying object; "flying saucer"
Merriam-Webster: UFO: unidentified flying object; flying saucer
Oxford American Dictionary: UFO: abbr., unidentified flying object
Oxford English Dictionary, Second Edition: UFO: acronym, unidentified flying object; "flying saucer"
Scholastic Student Dictionary: UFO: unidentified flying object
Webster's New American: UFO: unidentified flying object
Webster's New College: UFO: acronym unidentified flying object
Webster's New World: UFO: unidentified flying object
Webster's Third New International: UFO: unidentified flying object; compare "flying saucer"
Leading to… Webster's Third New International: flying saucer: any of various unidentified moving objects reported as seen in the air and us. alleged to be saucer- or disk-shaped; also called flying disk
 
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I'm looking for information to back up or confirm the credibility of Clark C. McLelland including experience, credentials or logical inconsistencies in his accounts.

http://www.stargate-chronicles.com/site/

I'm not looking for simple offhanded dismissals based on a lack of sufficient scientific evidence.

Here's another perfect example of your personal bias and flawed research method. You ONLY want data that supports your point of view, and I am willing to bet you will IGNORE any data that is contrary to your preconceptions.

Based on the available evidence (the contents of the website you linked), Clark C. McLelland is a crackpot. He has ZERO evidence to back up any of his claims about extraterrestrials, and asks everyone to accept his crackpot stories on faith. The only people that believe him are people that already believe in woo.

:cool:
 
And some print dictionaries, as I just returned from the library where I was helping students with research and had a lot of free time on my hands:

American Heritage Collegiate: UFO: unidentified flying object
American Heritage Dictionary: UFO: unidentified flying object
Funk and Wagnall's Dictionary: UFO: unidentified flying object; "flying saucer"
Merriam-Webster: UFO: unidentified flying object; flying saucer
Oxford American Dictionary: UFO: abbr., unidentified flying object
Oxford English Dictionary, Second Edition: UFO: acronym, unidentified flying object; "flying saucer"
Scholastic Student Dictionary: UFO: unidentified flying object
Webster's New American: UFO: unidentified flying object
Webster's New College: UFO: acronym unidentified flying object
Webster's New World: UFO: unidentified flying object
Webster's Third New International: UFO: unidentified flying object; compare "flying saucer"
Leading to… Webster's Third New International: flying saucer: any of various unidentified moving objects reported as seen in the air and us. alleged to be saucer- or disk-shaped; also called flying disk

Can anyone help me identify any trends you might see in these definitions? :thanks
 
...You [ufology] seem to be operating on a misguided belief that promoting changes in the meanings of key English language words will somehow magically cause outer space aliens to become accepted without evidence. You need to realize that fiddling around with semantics in this way is not fooling anybody. It doesn't fool the editors of Wikipedia, it doesn't even fool the UFOnauts over at the Paracast Forums, so why would you expect it to fly here?

I don't think he has what it takes to understand that. Seriously. To give him credit for having the capacity to understand that would force one to conclude he's just being a prick. The reason I think he really 'doesn't get it' is the fact he's tried this over at the Paracast forum as well, a site that he has no reason to troll. Maybe his shtick is a combination of the two, but whatever his malfunction is, no one here is going to succeed in getting that particular horse to drink from the well of rationality.

My suggestion (one I'm going to follow) is to not give his BS (the 'UFO=alien craft' nonsense being the most prominent) any more attention. If he and/or others want to actually honor the thread title and make a case for any particular facet of ufological lore being the elusive 'smoking gun' then I'll weigh in but this constant immersion in semantical minutiae and other off-topic malarkey brought to the table by ufology is not UFOs: The Research, the Evidence, it's just a waste of time.
 
A cursory look at the Stargate Chronicles site is sufficient to raise woo flags here with his hyping the debunked STS-48 video (the thruster/ice crystals one) another example of ignorance. Hand-waving about the 'Shadow Government' is another red flag. Oh, did I say he needed money?
Oh dear. What an incredibly lame begging letter. :( Surely he could do better? Couldn't he work up some of those advanced alien technologies that he gleaned whilst working at NASA and flog them on:

etbay.jpg


Then I'm sure he'd make enough to buy a new Dell. :)
 
Can anyone help me identify any trends you might see in these definitions?


Paul,

If you want to settle for such poor results just to suit your bias then all your doing is proving your lack of standards. And I don't believe you for a second that you didn't cherry pick your results to suit your bias. When your type "define UFO" into google the first result is this:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ufo

UFO  [yoo-ef-oh or, sometimes, yoo-foh] noun, plural UFO's, UFOs.

any unexplained moving objectobserved in the sky, especially one assumed by some observers to be of extraterrestrial origin.

============================

When you go to a reputable actual definition like The Oxford Online Dictionary you get this:

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/UFO

UFO(UFO) noun (plural UFOs)

a mysterious object seen in the sky for which it is claimed no orthodox scientific explanation can be found, often supposed to be a vehicle carrying extraterrestrials.

Origin:
1950s: acronym from unidentified flying object.

============================

When you look at virtually every depiction of a UFO you see something resembling an alien craft. Furthermore verybody knows that when someone uses the word UFO they are referring to an alien craft. Even if explicit references to alien craft have been omitted from the definition, at the very least a UFO is understood to be something extraordinary and unexplainable in conventional terms. Your willful ignornace of this fact in the face of overwhelming obvious evidence betrays your bias.

And of course I've left out official & investigative definitions like:

CUFOS:

"The reported perception of an object or light seen in the sky or upon the land the appearance, trajectory, and general dynamic and luminescent behavior of which do not suggest a logical, conventional explanation and which is not only mystifying to the original percipients but remains unidentified after close scrutiny of all available evidence by persons who are technically capable of making a common sense identification, if one is possible."

or USAF

“any airborne object which by performance, aerodynamic characteristics, or unusual features, does not conform to any presently known aircraft or missile type, or which cannot be positively identified as a familiar object.”

or USAF

2. Definitions. To insure proper and uniform usage in UFO screenings, investigations, and reportings, the objects are defined as follows:

a.Familiar or Known Objects - Aircraft, birds, balloons, kites, searchlights, and astronomical bodies (meteors, planets, stars).

b.Unknown Aircraft:
(1) Flying objects determined to be aircraft. These generally appear as a result of ADIZ violations and often prompt the UFO reports submitted by the general public. They are readily identifiable as, or known to be, aircraft, but their type, purpose, origin, and destination are unknown. Air Defense Command is responsible for reports of "unknown" aircraft and they should not be reported as UFO's under this regulation.
(2) Aircraft flares, jet exhausts, condensation trails, blinking or steady lights observed at night, lights circling or near airports and airways, and other similar phenomena resulting from, or indications of aircraft. These should not be reported under this regulation as they do not fall within the definition of a UFO.
(3) Pilotless aircraft and missiles.


c. Unidentified Flying Objects - Any airborne object which, by performance, aerodynamic characteristics, or unusual features, does not conform to known aircraft or missiles, or which does not correspond to definitions in a. and b. above.

=========================

And there are plenty more definitions out there ... real ones ... not like the ones you picked that aren't even real definitions. But I don't expect that you'd want to use them because the critics here are notorious for purposefully leaving out relevant information and in doing so are lying by omission and misrepresenting the field.

Lastly, I still have no useful information from any skeptics here on Clark McClelland. But perhaps skeptic Lance will dig something up. At least he's provided some useful information in the past. Or maybe the SUNlite people or CSI ( formerly CSICOP ). But the JREF people here seem to do nothing but ufology bash and spread anti ufology propoganda.
 
That's all you need? A sneaking suspicion? It might have been a satellite, it might have been a whole lot of things (it could even have been an alien craft if there was any evidence that alien craft exist. Why not? Do all alien craft behave as if they are alien?) but to this day it remains unidentified. If you want to do a UFOlogy investigation and report on it to clear things up then go ahead.

To me it remains unidentified, as in Unidentified Flying Object but NOT an alien craft.


Krikkiter,

You still haven't provided any reason that suggests the object you saw was something extraordinary that defies conventional explanation. Therefore there is no evidence that you saw a UFO.
 
Paul,

If you want to settle for such poor results just to suit your bias then all your doing is proving your lack of standards. And I don't believe you for a second that you didn't cherry pick your results to suit your bias. When your type "define UFO" into google the first result is this:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ufo

UFO  [yoo-ef-oh or, sometimes, yoo-foh] noun, plural UFO's, UFOs.

any unexplained moving object observed in the sky, especially one assumed by some observers to be of extraterrestrial origin.

============================

When you go to a reputable actual definition like The Oxford Online Dictionary you get this:

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/UFO

UFO(UFO) noun (plural UFOs)

a mysterious object seen in the sky for which it is claimed no orthodox scientific explanation can be found, often supposed to be a vehicle carrying extraterrestrials.

Origin:
1950s: acronym from unidentified flying object.

I've changed the bolding to emphasize how you've misrepresented those definitions. Both make it clear that UFO covers all flying objects for which no explanation cane be determined and that extraterrestrial origin is just an assumption. Frankly Ufology I think you are giving a wonderful demonstration of the difference between what you see and what you perceive.
 
...
any unexplained moving objectobserved in the sky, especially one assumed by some observers to be of extraterrestrial origin...
font sized (only) by Daylightstar
Yes, this is your claimed definition.
But, as it has already been explained to you, here we do not assume a UFO to be of extraterrestrial origin.

As you already know, this is in accordance with the null hypothesis:

"All UFOs are of mundane origin"

please stop trying to force your assumptions down other people's throats.
 
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Krikkiter,

You still haven't provided any reason that suggests the object you saw was something extraordinary that defies conventional explanation. Therefore there is no evidence that you saw a UFO.

Does standing logic on its head like that hurt Ufology?
 
Lastly, I still have no useful information from any skeptics here on Clark McClelland. But perhaps skeptic Lance will dig something up. At least he's provided some useful information in the past. Or maybe the SUNlite people or CSI ( formerly CSICOP ). But the JREF people here seem to do nothing but ufology bash and spread anti ufology propoganda.

That's BS. Multiple people here gave perfectly useful information, however you simply (and quite predictably) ignored that information because it did not support your point of view. McClelland is a nutter trying to make money off of other nutters. Every single one of his "examples" of extraterrestrials has been thoroughly and completely debunked.

Perhaps you should quit trying to redefine the term UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECT and present some actual physical evidence to support your claim that aliens exist.

Stop trying to get everyone else to do your work for you. Its dishonest.
Stop trying to redefine common words. Its dishonest.
And STOP bashing the folks that are actually trying to help you think critically. Its just flippin annoying!

:cool:
 
Krikkiter,

You still haven't provided any reason that suggests the object you saw was something extraordinary that defies conventional explanation. Therefore there is no evidence that you saw a UFO.

1. The object remains unidentified therefore it is an Unidentified Flying Object despite your insistence that it was a satellite.

2. You're showing your bias when you insist that UFO's must behave in extraordinary ways to be classes as UFO = OMG Aliens!
 
Garrison said:
Paul,

If you want to settle for such poor results just to suit your bias then all your doing is proving your lack of standards. And I don't believe you for a second that you didn't cherry pick your results to suit your bias. When your type "define UFO" into google the first result is this:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ufo

UFO  [yoo-ef-oh or, sometimes, yoo-foh] noun, plural UFO's, UFOs.

any unexplained moving object observed in the sky, especially one assumed by some observers to be of extraterrestrial origin.

============================

When you go to a reputable actual definition like The Oxford Online Dictionary you get this:

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/UFO

UFO(UFO) noun (plural UFOs)

a mysterious object seen in the sky for which it is claimed no orthodox scientific explanation can be found, often supposed to be a vehicle carrying extraterrestrials.

Origin:
1950s: acronym from unidentified flying object.

I've changed the bolding to emphasize how you've misrepresented those definitions. Both make it clear that UFO covers all flying objects for which no explanation cane be determined and that extraterrestrial origin is just an assumption. Frankly Ufology I think you are giving a wonderful demonstration of the difference between what you see and what you perceive.


Good post, and very true.
 
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