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Are Agnostics Welcome Here?

jasonpatterson said:
Not arguing with your statement, but I strongly suspect that the majority of those who make this claim don't know what the words agnosticism and atheism mean, especially those who claim to be agnostic without saying what they are agnostic about.
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Actually, no, I've heard cogent arguments here in favor of the proposition that atheism is illogical and one must stop at agnosticism.

Flawed arguments, yes, but not incoherent.
 
Nicole Friedman said:
Reading through many of the threads on this forum, I am honestly wondering how posters on this site feel about agnostics, particularly agnostics with "hope" that there is an intelligent force in the universe.
For the record, I consider myself to be a very rational thinker. I cannot commit myself to saying that G-d exists 100% because I have no tangible proof. However, I refuse to say that G-d does not exist for the same reason. Also, I honestly hope that there is some intelligent, good force in this universe; I admit my unscientific bias but even Einstein believed that there was something behind all of this... which leads me back to my thread topic "Are agnostics welcome here?"
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Welcome to the forum!

In answer to your unstated question, there is an intelligent good force in the universe; it's called humanity and the cool thing is, everyone is a part of it.

Seeing, however, your other posts specifically mentioning Yahweh, I'm wondering if that's the definition of god that you are hoping about in your OP.

In other words, what's your definition of intelligent, good force in this universe?
 
My answer would be that people are welcome here, but that some people are pretty well-versed in making themselves unwelcome.

Believe it or not, I have friends who are religious, and we don't argue or fight about it; I don't make fun of them or put them down or try to make them see my point of view. I'm glad they have their beliefs, and I'm sincerely glad if their beliefs comfort them and help them live better lives.

My belief didn't do that, and I couldn't reconcile holding my beliefs when they were so painful, and to me so obviously not true. But that's me. Whatever gets you through the night, it's all right.
 
Piggy said:
Actually, no, I've heard cogent arguments here in favor of the proposition that atheism is illogical and one must stop at agnosticism.

Flawed arguments, yes, but not incoherent.
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When they should actually jump instead to ignosticism.
 
Piggy said:
I do not accept that a proper application of skepticism and reason can lead to a belief in God, however; therefore, I don't agree that theists (even deists) can accurately describe themselves as skeptics, only as people who are skeptical about some things but not others, which makes them indistinguishable from non-skeptics.
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If probed carefully, almost all skeptics have an area where they fail to think critically. What area that is can be quite a bit different for any one individual. By your definition, almost everyone ends up being indistinguishable from non-skeptics.

As for the OP, there are people here that will give you a hard time. A few folks here are determined to force their perspective down you throat by asking you loaded questions like "Which god do you believe in" rather than acknowledge that agnosticism can apply to the general topic of a god rather than any specific entity.

When that happens, an argument develops around positions of knowledge and positions of belief. Just about every time such an argument has happened there has been at least one person refusing to deal with the differences and try to force and atheist identity on to you regardless of your preferences. In short, there are some people here with issues that they try to work out by making you conform to their preferred point of view rather than accepting what you choose to call yourself.
 
Or even igneousticism - belief that all gods are firegods (or firedogs). ETA:reply to 65 not 66
 
Why isn't "which god do you believe in" a critical thought-stimulating question?

Yes, it's loaded, but it has a purpose, and that purpose isn't really negative. It's to get you to think, critically, about why you believe the specific thing you believe. Is that a bad thing?
 
slingblade said:
Why isn't "which god do you believe in" a critical thought-stimulating question?

Yes, it's loaded, but it has a purpose, and that purpose isn't really negative. It's to get you to think, critically, about why you believe the specific thing you believe. Is that a bad thing?
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Because the question assumes that agnosticism applies to specific entities rather than the general concept of a god.
 
Doubt said:
Because the question assumes that agnosticism applies to specific entities rather than the general concept of a god.
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Does it? I thought agnostics don't claim to know if there are any gods...and I can't remember the last time, here anyway, that question was asked of an agnostic. It may have been, but I can't remember, and I think I would, because it seems downright odd to ask an agnostic which god they believe in, seeing as how they don't even know if there are any gods to believe in.

I think that question gets asked mostly of religious people who start talking about "god," and challenging atheists, who then challenge them back by pointing out there are hundreds of gods, and if you only believe in one of them, then you're atheist too...except for your plus one.
 
Nicole Friedman said:
Reading through many of the threads on this forum, I am honestly wondering how posters on this site feel about agnostics, particularly agnostics with "hope" that there is an intelligent force in the universe.
For the record, I consider myself to be a very rational thinker. I cannot commit myself to saying that G-d exists 100% because I have no tangible proof. However, I refuse to say that G-d does not exist for the same reason. Also, I honestly hope that there is some intelligent, good force in this universe; I admit my unscientific bias but even Einstein believed that there was something behind all of this... which leads me back to my thread topic "Are agnostics welcome here?"
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Welcome.
 
Doubt said:
If probed carefully, almost all skeptics have an area where they fail to think critically. What area that is can be quite a bit different for any one individual. By your definition, almost everyone ends up being indistinguishable from non-skeptics.

As for the OP, there are people here that will give you a hard time. A few folks here are determined to force their perspective down you throat by asking you loaded questions like "Which god do you believe in" rather than acknowledge that agnosticism can apply to the general topic of a god rather than any specific entity.
When that happens, an argument develops around positions of knowledge and positions of belief. Just about every time such an argument has happened there has been at least one person refusing to deal with the differences and try to force and atheist identity on to you regardless of your preferences. In short, there are some people here with issues that they try to work out by making you conform to their preferred point of view rather than accepting what you choose to call yourself.
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What is a general topic of a god? What does it mean to be generally considered a god?
 
Leumas said:
I just explained to you why spelling out God as G-d is a totally meaningless practice.
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Well, I'm not going to judge the meaning for someone else, but I decided long ago to just spell the darn word. I even capitalize 'He' when referring to God in the third person. I'd rather take the step and show believers some respect, than to editorialize the English language.

Yet somehow my snarkiness still shows through.

You can't completely hide the snark.
 
citizenzen said:
Well, I'm not going to judge the meaning for someone else, but I decided long ago to just spell the darn word. I even capitalize 'He' when referring to God in the third person. I'd rather take the step and show believers some respect, than to editorialize the English language.

Yet somehow my snarkiness still shows through.

You can't completely hide the snark.
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If you wish to show respect, the Christian god has a name; why not just use it?

<snark>
'God' isn't a name, it's a job description.
</snark>
 
slingblade said:
Does it? I thought agnostics don't claim to know if there are any gods...and I can't remember the last time, here anyway, that question was asked of an agnostic. It may have been, but I can't remember, and I think I would, because it seems downright odd to ask an agnostic which god they believe in, seeing as how they don't even know if there are any gods to believe in.

I think that question gets asked mostly of religious people who start talking about "god," and challenging atheists, who then challenge them back by pointing out there are hundreds of gods, and if you only believe in one of them, then you're atheist too...except for your plus one.
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One of our board admins here is rather fond of using that question. He has tried it twice on me alone, let alone others.
 
Doubt said:
One of our board admins here is rather fond of using that question. He has tried it twice on me alone, let alone others.
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Then in that case, I think it's really odd. You're agnostic, then? Why on earth would anyone ask someone who doesn't claim to know there are or aren't any gods which one he believes in?

That's just weird.

Sorry for doubting you, Doubt.

...yes, writing that last made me grin. :p
 
Why? Let's take the big bang. We know it happened but we do not yet know its cause or what (if anything) came before it. Let's say that one day we do find an answer to the cause or what came before it... but then what came before that? Either our universe had a beginning or it's always been... either way we may always be left with more and more questions. Can we ever find evidence or proof in the future that satisfies those questions and prove without a doubt that G-d doesn't exist? Anything is possible- I just highly doubt that will ever happen.
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Okay.

What created the god you're speculating about? Because to claim that the Big Bang had to have a cause, despite evidence that our concepts of cause, effect, and time break down at the Big Bang, but to not apply that same logic to gods is special pleading. ;)

citizenzen said:
Do they prefer it being used?
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In day-to-day Christian usage, God refers to the Father. He may have a name, but few "man-in-the-pew" Christians (as opposed to theologians) actually use it, and I doubt most even know it. The Son is referred to as Jesus Christ, and the Spirit is, well, the Holy Spirit. The Trinity is the word for all three in one. Again, theologians use the terms differently, but that's what your average Catholic is going to use those terms to mean.
 
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