Things Occupy Wall Street activists should demand

Ban electronic voting machines that do not create a voter-verifiable PAPER ballot, which can be hand counted and shall be the official proof of any election outcome and make election fraud a felony punishable by life imprisonment.

Create a National Industrialization Bank to make loans for building of physical plant, funded by bonds which provide a tax shelter for income until the bonds are cashed in.

Tax repatriated capital at 75% percent unless invested in National Investment Bank bonds.
 
As a person who has actually camped out, held a sign and worked the kitchen at Occupy LA, I feel slightly more occupier-than-thou when it comes to this board.

I can not make demands on behalf of OWS, that's not how it works. I can only make suggestions. I suggest, actually I ask, that those of you who care enough to create demands for OWS go down and talk to some of your local occupiers first. It's very different in person than it is on the news or even the websites of the various protests. Get a feel for it before presuming to speak for them.
 
My demands would be:

1. No more bailouts.

2. Break up the bank cartels into smaller entities. If a financial institution collapses it will be allowed to fail without bringing down the entire edifice.

3. For any banks that have received bailout money: until the taxpayers are repaid, there will be no bonuses and no employee will be paid more than a civil servant of an equivalent rank.
 
My demands would be:

1. No more bailouts.

2. Break up the bank cartels into smaller entities. If a financial institution collapses it will be allowed to fail without bringing down the entire edifice.

3. For any banks that have received bailout money: until the taxpayers are repaid, there will be no bonuses and no employee will be paid more than a civil servant of an equivalent rank.

There's a problem with number 3 in that the bulk of TARP has been repaid.* What hasn't been repaid is the loss to people who were sold assets that banks and mortgage lenders re-packaged as sound investments, even though they were made up of bad loans.

*Although that's very hard to prove because there's about zero transparency. The records on who got what haven't been released yet and there have been some shady deals with repayment. GM, for example, paid back some of it's TARP loan with another loan from the government.
 
People throw the term "loophole" around all the time, and I have no idea what it means. There are no tax loopholes. There are deductions and credits. Is that what they are talking about?

They mean the deductions and credits being poorly worded enough or over broad to the point where they are used not for their intended effect, but by others for other purposes.

The business landscape shouldn't be so tied to who can game the system the best, but who can provided the best product.
 
From what I have seen, these people can't agree on anything, and since they require consensus on any issue nothing gets done. Really what I get the impression of is a massive party; those who compare it to Woodstock seem pretty accurate.
 
a) We're over streched waahhhhh
b) We then are responsbile for the people waaaahhh
c) A tac nuke burst harms the ozone layer and sets off early warning systems
nope

d) China would attack us not North Korea. not with the debt we have with them, you demonstrate you have no idea what you're talking about
e) France is an ally. no they're not
f) Mexico is a major narcostate but I doubt the people want us there. Do you remember the Maquis?

deep space nine reference? Really?
 
From what I have seen, these people can't agree on anything, and since they require consensus on any issue nothing gets done. Really what I get the impression of is a massive party; those who compare it to Woodstock seem pretty accurate. *shakes fist* and get off my lawn!

ftfy
 
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As a person who has actually camped out, held a sign and worked the kitchen at Occupy LA, I feel slightly more occupier-than-thou when it comes to this board.

I can not make demands on behalf of OWS, that's not how it works. I can only make suggestions. I suggest, actually I ask, that those of you who care enough to create demands for OWS go down and talk to some of your local occupiers first. It's very different in person than it is on the news or even the websites of the various protests. Get a feel for it before presuming to speak for them.

I've talked to the "occupiers" in both Madison and St. Louis. I could feel my brain atrophy.
 
From what I have seen, these people can't agree on anything, and since they require consensus on any issue nothing gets done. Really what I get the impression of is a massive party; those who compare it to Woodstock seem pretty accurate.

That's basically the criticism many have of the Tea Party, which the Tea Party of course leverages into plausible deniability for any crazy, bad, mean things they say/do.

What these people seem to agree on is that the current problems are at least partially because of businesses behaving badly and that we haven't addressed that enough. I'd agree with that too. But they also have a lot of crazy, bad, mean things thrown in, so I can't be completely supportive. However, at least they are bringing attention back to the issue of business douchbaggery and showing the less spine-abled in government that there really is support for better regulation of some business practices in general, and banking/investing specifically.
 
a) We're over streched waahhhhh
b) We then are responsbile for the people waaaahhh
c) A tac nuke burst harms the ozone layer and sets off early warning systems
nope

waahhh? That's some response there!

d) China would attack us not North Korea. not with the debt we have with them, you demonstrate you have no idea what you're talking about
e) France is an ally. no they're not

:boggled:

f) Mexico is a major narcostate but I doubt the people want us there. Do you remember the Maquis?

deep space nine reference? Really?

Try the French Resistance, which is where DS9 got the name from.
 
a) We're over streched waahhhhh
b) We then are responsbile for the people waaaahhh
c) A tac nuke burst harms the ozone layer and sets off early warning systems
nope

d) China would attack us not North Korea. not with the debt we have with them, you demonstrate you have no idea what you're talking about
e) France is an ally. no they're not
f) Mexico is a major narcostate but I doubt the people want us there. Do you remember the Maquis?

deep space nine reference? Really?

The US spends as much on defense as the next top fifteen combined. Twelve of them are our allies.
 
Why are they in a position to demand anything?

Something about them being citizens and that this is a democratic republic.

I can appreciate where you're coming from on this and many of these demands look reasonable on the surface. I'd just like to add my objections





I thought part of the justification for some subsidies was to provide smaller farms with a living return on investment and as a consequence stem the tide of the agri-business.

Of course one of the problems with any subsidy is that the canny learn to take advantage of them and that big business benefits best.

If agricultural subsidies are withdrawn then there'll be a lot of hardship for family farmers in the short term which will allow big business to pick up farmland more cheaply and benefit even more from economies of scale

The small family farm may have to go the way of the Dodo. We do need agriculture and if the most efficient way to deliver it is from a series of large corporations then so be it.

I find it hard to argue against this one but presumably the spending goes to someone and helps to pay someone's salary. If DOD spending is cut significantly, US manufacturing is going to take a major hit. That's what has happened here in the UK, the upshot of the defence cuts is putting thousands of skilled engineers on the dole.

This is why I proposed to bust up the contractors simultaneously. Doing this will require seed money to establish numerous new businesses or allow existing ones to diversify. Maybe Lockheed and Northrop would get into the commercial airliner game? That might be bad for Boeing but would probably be better for everyone else.

Otherwise I'm pretty sure the DOD can absorb a 20% cut and still remain functional in it's missions. We'd have to refocus some. Keep more troops home and rely more on prepositioning and fast sealift.

I'm sure they'd love to, but it's very difficult to do.

If you insist that US based companies pay US tax on all their earnings then this will unfairly penalise companies with international business.

If you insist that all companies with a US presence pay US tax on their US (or all) income then that'll result in a major international hoo-ha

I always hear this argument. I'm not convinced. Major corporations need the stability and economy of societies with strong government social support.

That's a great idea, where does the money come from ?

From the money freed up from the cuts to the DOD and agriculture.

Oh, ending oil subsidies would be nice too.

So now you're placing an unexpected demand on US banks that their international competitors don't have. US banks would be placed at a significant disadvantage which will just make things worse for them

Well right now they are dealing with more and more defaults. This might actually help the banks.

So instead of objective testing you end up with subjective assessment which will necessarily be subject to political pressure. The committees (full of government fat cats) will find that schools with a religious slant are doing fine while secular schools are mysteriously found wanting.

Maybe that isn't the right thing to replace it with. But what I do know is that the current paradigm is insane. Schools no longer teach they just prepare kids to pass the seemingly endless tests. As if they were the same thing.

It's nuts and needs to stop immediately before we screw up even more generations.

Which will inevitably mean that the rich seeking election will be operating at an even greater advantage than Joe Public. The rich can meet many costs out of their own pocket (especially "soft" costs like travel), the rest of us cannot.

That is one possible side effect. Everything has it's price.

Even I cannot come up with an argument against this one, so long as the infrastructure improvements don't turn into a huge boondoggle. The investment should deliver high requirement infrastructure, develop required technologies and deliver required skills.

Very few infrastructure projects are actual boondoggles. Even ones that are much maligned like the Big Dig were actually net benefits to their communities once finished.

I can really only name one complete boondoogle off the top of my head, The Bay Bridge East Span replacement. For the price we're paying we could have retrofited the existing one and built an entirely new bridge parallel to the old one. Of course when they started building it over ten years ago no one knew that steel and concrete would triple in price thanks to demand in China.

The cost of developing any aerospace system these days is so ruinously expensive that there's only space for a handful of companies globally. Forcing US companies to split would put them at a significant disadvantage globally.

I don't know about that. We have companies building space delivery systems using the amount of money that Boeing probably spends on styrofoam coffee cups in any given year.

Almost all of what you say are laudable objectives. I just think that there are significant consequences associated with each that need to be thought through.

Indeed there are always consequences. Doing nothing has it's own set of them.
 
As I said in another Occupy Wall Street thread, I think that it's amazing and hopeful that such disparate elements have come together to show their unhappiness with how the country is functioning. I agree with this quote from occupywallst.org:
Our nation, our species and our world are in crisis. The US has an important role to play in the solution, but we can no longer afford to let corporate greed and corrupt politics set the policies if [sic] our nation.
I would suggest demanding the following:

  • Reverse all the deregulation since 1970, starting with the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act and the 1980 deregulation of S&Ls.

  • Enact and enforce strict campaign reform laws that limit campaign spending dramatically and that reduce allowable corporate contributions. Make sure the penalties are substantial and that they are imposed.

  • Change the tax laws to dramatically increase taxes on corporate profits over a certain (to be argued over and finally determined) level. Make sure profits are not wiped out by fancy accounting practices.

  • Change the tax laws to dramatically increase taxes on bonuses (both monetary and in other forms) over a certain (to be argued over and finally determined) level.

  • Raise the tax rate on eligible dividends and capital gains.

  • Simplify personal income taxes.

  • Penalize investments (corporate and private) outside the United States.

  • Penalize outsourcing.

  • Reduce farm subsidies. Only give subsidies to small farmers - not agribusinesses. Base direct payment subsidies on the economic need of the recipients or the financial condition of the farm economy. Don't give subsidies for ethanol.

  • Prohibit government employment contracts (at all levels, Federal, state, and local) from hiring someone for a short time and then letting them leave with full pension benefits.

  • Bring back modified versions of the Works Progress Administration and the Civilian Conservation Corps; our infrastructure could use some work and most state and local governments can't afford it. Money to fund the programs could come from the new taxes on bonuses and excessive profits and the other tax changes mentioned above.
 

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