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Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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So there's no video of Patrick's interview either? Thought not. I'll just bet that Daily Fail journalist has some tape of him saying he was abused by the police though.

Rolfe.
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Interesting Rolfe,

this may be old news to some, but it is a good question. Why isn't there a recording of Patrick's interrogation?

How could anyone argue that he wasn't a suspect and thus his interrogation should have been recorded.

The only way they can get away with this is if they presumed he was innocent and they didn't believe Amanda's statement and wanted to investigate it further.

Their investigation turned out to be an interrogation.

And they only considered him a real suspect until after the interrogation was over, which is why there was no recording.

He immediately took the daily mail up on it's offer, because he also thought LE (Law Enforcement) had recorded the interrogation. Just like Amanda did also.

It sounds like a scam to me. Tell suspects their interrogation is being recorded, slap therm around, and then when they complain charge them with calunnia.

Here's my question: Do those who who sign up for calunnia, do they get money out of it?
If they do get money, that's a neat little scam they got going in Italy.

Dave
 
Oh no, not the confession again!

He denied explicitly a semen stain could be his, in his first skype conversation.

I don't know what they think, but by my understanding Raffaele Sollecito did leave his DNA in the murder room. And I've read the whole Vecchiotti/Conti report.
He did also leave his footprint in blood, by the way.

Oh, You have new evidence ,great please share. If you can prove it (Steff do the blood test on that ? ). Be careful though. They tried to pass one of Guedes off on Raffeal before and it didn't work.

Four DNA traces of Rudy were found in Meredith's room. One of Raffaele Sollecito. None was found of Amanda, but I am wary about those numbers, because sampling follows a method itself selective.Nobody will know, for example, who was the owner of the long straigth light coloured hair, nor who had grabbed the victim's hir or who covered her mouth: no male DNA could be recovered from those areas. Often you need a Y-haplotype to spot DNA on a victim's body.
The selective method didn't lead them to test the semen stain found between the victims thighs which clearly would help tell the story of what happened. Yet your worried they didnt test enough to pin Knox ?
On the other hand, I can note that a mixed luminol trace with DNA of Knox and Meredith was found in the alleged burglary (or staging) room, but no trace of Rudy (DNA or fingerprint) was found there where he supposedly climbed in, and searched the room.

Same can be said here that they didn't try very hard to look for Rudy's DNA in the room. Mixed DNA of these two is worthless. They live together so it's bound to be there. (Guilter Trick)

Moreover no trace of Rudy was found in the bathroom, where he supposedly must have been to wash himself, while he was dirty with blood and maybe wounded and he supposely touched several things (light interruptor, faucet, bidet);
Supposedly ? Fact.. He said he got towels didn't he. Towels were found at the crime scene were they not ! Or are you going to claim that he went to the other end of the house to get towels from Laura's bathroom ? In reality if the Kabob got the best of him and he couldn't finish having sex,he would have used Merideth's bathroom anyhow. Only one reason to use the other one ! It was closer during his robbery!

only Knox and Meredith's DNA was found in this bathroom. This bathroom is obviously an extension of the murder scene, since it was a location for the murderer's activity and his interaction with environment.


And, a Knife was found with Amanda's DNA on it which has the victim's DNA on it. I know that you would believe a contamination, but I see no basis for that, in my opinion it is not possible to make this claim even based on the C&V report. I've read the report rather carefully.

Uhmm... There was a profile but who's we do not know ? Maybe Hellmans remember? After the first trial the Judges report was gospel to guilters. Now we pick and choose as we see fit ? Speaking of fit ... Hate to beat a dead horse here, but out of all the knives available in this murder case they only check one. Prophetic to say the least. They were carrying it around in her purse for protection? Dumped the cell phones but kept the murder weapon?


A final note: Amanda's false accusation was a story in which she was in the kitchen while someone else was killing Meredith. She would have been guilty in that case too. A person doesn't need to be physically in the murder room to be guilty of murder.
Others may dance with you on this one,not me. As I said before once you slap her forget it !! I'm not hearing it. I dont care how she responds afterwards. If she took her clothes off and did cartwheels with I did it tatooed on her ass! There's no tape by the choice/incompetence of the Prosecutor/police. Note came after the beat down. If it were before then we could talk. Doesn't matter to me if you were there ! Truth is if they dont purposely destroy the hard drives (alibi) it's all irrelivant anyhow.
 
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The only way anyone is going to prove there was a "staged" break-in is to convincingly argue that Ron Hendry's analysis is wrong.

The only other evidence is courtroom testimony. There is nothing recorded, no pictures or videos. Nothing that proves a thing one way or another.

Also in order to believe this was "staged", you have to ignore circumstantial evidence that Rudy had done this very kind of beak-in before.

Steffi Kercher looks smart. I'll bet she'll be the first one (if she hasn't already) to begin to see the light,

Dave
 
I hope someone decides to re-open Rudy's case on the back of all this, and grant him a re-trial. I'd dearly love to see him put away for life.

Rolfe.

He was acquitted with 530.1. They cannot convict him again for burglary.

I mean that if he asks for a new trial, this won't bring any risk to him. Because a retrial could never increase his penalty. Even if he was found guilty of killing a second person that night in the cottage, his maximum possible penalty for the whole case will be always 16 years, not more.
He has only to gain in asking for a new trial, there is nothing practical that he can loose.

I take the above exchange to mean:
1. If one is found not guilty under 530.1 double jeopardy applies and he can't be retried.
2. If one is found guilty and given a specific sentence his sentence can't be increased in a retrial.

But curiously if one is found not guilty under 530.2 he can be retried and sentenced to whatever the court decides is appropriate? If this is correct this is an interesting kind of double jeopardy protection. If one is found guilty double jeopardy restrictions apply and his sentence can't be increased but if one is found not guilty it is possible that double jeopardy restrictions don't apply and he can be retried.

So if Machiavelli is correct about Italian law on this, if RS/AK were found not guilty under 530.1 then all this talk about appeals is moot, they can't be retried. But if they were found guilty under 530.2 they can be retried (assuming a successful appeal by the prosecutor to the Italian Supreme Court) and given any sentence the court deems appropriate if they are found guilty?
 
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Grey fox Supposedly ? Fact.. He said he got towels didn't he. Towels were found at the crime scene were they not ! Or are you going to claim that he went to the other end of the house to get towels from Laura's bathroom ? In reality if the Kabob got the best of him and he couldn't finish having sex,he would have used Merideth's bathroom anyhow. Only one reason to use the other one ! It was closer during his robbery!

No DNA from Raff was found in that bathroom yet according Mach he washed up there and even left behind a footprint. So why does he think it's significant that Rudy didn't leave behind any DNA in the bathroom?
 
I will add this on the subject of what ought to be criticized regarding the Kercher's actions and current position. The (perfectly nice incidentally) Daily Mail article with the pictures of Amanda basically walking around trying to be normal, and the last line, a quote from John Kercher, ought to illustrate something. Amanda as well as Raffaele according to (private) reports from Italy, are being besieged by paparazzi, hiding out from them, while at the same time John Kercher is saying they shouldn't be allowed to 'profit' from the murder. However no one notes that he's also writing a book, has a civil case pending against the Sollecito's for 'damages' and his lawyer is still working to help put Amanda and Amanda's parents in jail on two other cases still to be heard.

There are some who fear for Amanda and Raffaele's safety, serious people with the qualifications to know, as the line has been developed that they got off on a 'technicality' or due to some conspiring with the government, succored by some spending four years of beating the drums of guilt. They continue the pretense that the 'facts' of the case indicate guilt, a position that appears to have resonance in some quarters. The propaganda that those that think them innocent are the promoters and deluded dupes of a 'PR campaign' has gained traction, another lie promoted and 'supported' by distortions and falsehoods.

The reality is that the Kerchers engaged in a PR campaign against Amanda and Raffaele through hiring a lawyer which complimented and expanded upon the one run by a corrupt prosecution. In addition they wrote numerous articles promoting bogus 'evidence' and accusations against supporters of Raffaele and Amanda as 'cultists' and decrying the fact that the normal process of justice in Italy allowed for an automatic second trial, placing that 'blame' squarely upon Amanda and Raffaele. The acquittal was described as 'ludicrous' suggesting a gross miscarriage of justice occurred. The same position was reflected in highly moderated websites that journalists perused and amounted to little more than propaganda outlets.

It is truly tragic what has occurred to the Kerchers, the majority of that blame ought to be directly focused upon the men and women with authority who deceived them, namely Mignini, Maresca, Napoleoni, Stefanoni, and the guys above the latter two in the Polizia Scientifica and Polizia di Stato notably Biondi and the two who've done such a fine job hiding behind Napoleoni's skirt I cannot recall their names. However, at this point with the verdict of the trial of the second instance the one that really mattered in this process rendered on the murder charge, the idea that the actions and attitudes of the ones who pretend they're the only ones that suffered ought to be subject to criticism, as I honestly believe this attitude dangerous not just to Raffaele and Amanda, but also the Kerchers themselves and to a certain extent the future of justice in both countries.

It may seem perfectly reasonable to want to reimburse the Kerchers for expenses, however I think there should be some consideration for whether this is behavior that ought to be subsidized. Should every victim of a murder such as this be encouraged to seek a lawyer to run a 'PR campaign' on their behalf? In Italy that 'PR campaign' gets to speak in the courtroom, but in Britain and the United States they can still do plenty of damage to public opinion as this case has been instructive as no one will dare criticize anything a victim's lawyer might say, or suggest to his clients they say, even if it is demonstrably untrue.

In this case it lead to delusional clients of the 'victims lawyer,' and while the same phenomena may exist without it, I'd suggest that adding a Maresca to the mix and investing the relatives of the victims in a particular outcome may very well guarantee that they'll never be able to let it go. Does anyone want a precedent set that encourages lawyers to seek out the families of victims at their most vulnerable and invest them early and openly in a particular outcome? Think of it, even if they lose they can bill the government and maybe write a book about their loss and perhaps even blame the victim of their excess forevermore in some quarters?

There is powerful emotional appeal to 'remembering the victim' however the ones accused in cases like this are by law and custom considered 'innocent until proven guilty.' Except in this case, they weren't, they were condemned freely and openly by the 'victims lawyer' and the online lynch mob. When exonerated they ought to be considered innocent, yet in this case there's a movement afoot to ensure they will never have that dignity restored. One promoted by incestuous tightly controlled propaganda outlets that get cited by media yet no one ever investigates the claims made by them or exposes them as the fraudulent promoters of falsehoods that they are. This would be Perugia Murder File, True Justice for Meredith Kercher, and Maundy Gregory site, none of which permit opposing opinion they disagree with and cannot pretend to refute as Maundy Gregory does, giving the illusion he is allowing 'all sides.' Not if he can't think of what looks like a answer he doesn't! On the other hand Injustice in Perugia, View from Wilmington and this thread allows any claim to be contested, that ought to tell people something.

Amanda Knox, Raffaele Sollecito and their families are victims too. Real victims, not just ones associated with one, but ones who will have to bear the burden of accusation and expense for the rest of their lives, and who did nothing but try to defend themselves from ridiculous scurrilous charges by the prosecution, the 'victims lawyers' and the online lynch mob. There are those who would want to taint them forever as being killers or those who 'sprung' a murderess with a 'PR campaign.' Amanda and Raffaele's parents still have charges pending against them from daring to speak out in defense of their children when provable lies were being told against them and bogus 'evidence' collected, yet for some reason this goes unnoticed? Instead, having the additional expense and having to risk those charges and criticism for the little they could do is used against them as 'proof' that they somehow dishonestly affected the court's outcome?

The ones attempting to dishonestly affect the court's outcome and who ran a concerted and expensive 'PR campaign' to destroy the lives of innocents were not Amanda and Raffaele's families. How could the ones that did that expect that they now can influence the lives of their victims by telling them they shouldn't 'profit' from the murder? They didn't have anything to do with the murder, except as victims themselves. What they endured is something that should be exposed, and their pain and suffering rewarded if they so choose by telling it, it should not be up to the ones who victimized them and actually did and are still trying to profit off of the murder.

Those that prejudge, who refuse to abide by the law and custom of justice that defendants are innocent until proven guilty and who work to destroy the accused and their families, then refuse to accept the verdict of the court, should not have any mantle of victimhood or aura of infallibility. This is lynch mob justice, it is something that ought to be condemned, not subsidized or encouraged. It has consequences not only for the objects of their misguided vengeance, but for them and all future victims of terrible tragedies such as this. This is a precedent that ought not to be set.

The Kerchers suffered a terrible loss, they were then used by delusional and dishonest men and women, and are still being used today by their sycophants in the media and elsewhere to try to control or destroy the futures of those who are also innocent victims of Rudy Guede, Mignini and the rest of his band of mendacious thugs. This should not be celebrated, it ought to be condemned, and if any restitution out of pity is to be made it ought to come with an apology to his victims and a denouncing of the rest of the slavering hordes that lit torches and tried to pervert the course of justice for two innocent youngsters whom common sense, logic, science and law have now exonerated. If this does not happen, Raffaele and Amanda may be condemned to a life of suspicion and contempt by the ignorant and deluded and may someday end up roasting in the bonfire of the hatred fueled by that attempt.

All it takes is one person who thinks they 'escaped' justice, or that one of those family members 'perverted' it and is unhinged enough to do something. Even if that doesn't happen, any attempt to stigmatize the victims and families of the real victims of the Amanda Knox case ought to be open to criticism. There are stakes here that go beyond what happened to the Kerchers in their tragedy, or even Raffaele, Amanda and their families if we want to pretend we live in a civilized society.
 
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I don't know what they think, but by my understanding Raffaele Sollecito did leave his DNA in the murder room. And I've read the whole Vecchiotti/Conti report.
He did also leave his footprint in blood, by the way.
Four DNA traces of Rudy were found in Meredith's room. One of Raffaele Sollecito. None was found of Amanda, but I am wary about those numbers, because sampling follows a method itself selective. Nobody will know, for example, who was the owner of the long straigth light coloured hair, nor who had grabbed the victim's hir or who covered her mouth: no male DNA could be recovered from those areas. Often you need a Y-haplotype to spot DNA on a victim's body.
On the other hand, I can note that a mixed luminol trace with DNA of Knox and Meredith was found in the alleged burglary (or staging) room, but no trace of Rudy (DNA or fingerprint) was found there where he supposedly climbed in, and searched the room.
Moreover no trace of Rudy was found in the bathroom, where he supposedly must have been to wash himself, while he was dirty with blood and maybe wounded and he supposely touched several things (light interruptor, faucet, bidet); only Knox and Meredith's DNA was found in this bathroom. This bathroom is obviously an extension of the murder scene, since it was a location for the murderer's activity and his interaction with environment.
And, a Knife was found with Amanda's DNA on it which has the victim's DNA on it. I know that you would believe a contamination, but I see no basis for that, in my opinion it is not possible to make this claim even based on the C&V report. I've read the report rather carefully.
A final note: Amanda's false accusation was a story in which she was in the kitchen while someone else was killing Meredith. She would have been guilty in that case too. A person doesn't need to be physically in the murder room to be guilty of murder.

I take the above exchange to mean:
1. If one is found not guilty under 530.1 double jeopardy applies and he can't be retried.
2. If one is found guilty and given a specific sentence his sentence can't be increased in a retrial.

But curiously if one is found not guilty under 530.2 he can be retried and sentenced to whatever the court decides is appropriate? If this is correct this is an interesting kind of double jeopardy protection. If one is found guilty double jeopardy restrictions apply and his sentence can't be increased but if one is found not guilty it is possible that double jeopardy restrictions don't apply and he can be retried.

So if Machiavelli is correct about Italian law on this, if RS/AK were found not guilty under 530.1 then all this talk about appeals is moot, they can't be retried. But if they were found guilty under 530.2 they can be retried (assuming a successful appeal by the prosecutor to the Italian Supreme Court) and given any sentence the court deems appropriate if they are found guilty?


Great if that's true. We do have a quote from Hellman that does appear to indicate a 530.1 acquittal.

But then again, why did Mach act like a 530.1 acquittal presented a greater problem for the defense?
 
The bottom line is that there is no compelling evidence whatsoever linking either Ms. Knox or Mr. Solletico to the murder of Ms. Kercher. They are probably entirely innocent and, in any event, they are certainly not guilty beyond reasonable doubt. Machiavelili is just talking nonsense without any supporting evidence whatsoever.

Wrongful convictions happen all the time, unfortunately, in lots of countries, including the U.S. and Canada. But at least this time, the Italian system corrected its error and overturned the wrongful convictions of Ms. Knox and Mr. Sollecito.

We'll have to wait and see what the Hellmann court says in its reasons for judgment in order to determine whether or not it's worth appealing the "calunnia" conviction against Ms. Knox, but there is no doubt that the murder convictions of Ms. Knox and Mr. Sollecito at first instance were entirely bogus, unfounded, and unsupported by evidence.
 
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Never heard Biscotti being wary. If you have a quote, that would be helpful.
No, as far as I know, he cannot be sentenced to more prison time.

I found where I referred to it on this thread but I didn't link the source at the time. I didn't make it up, but it's possible I misunderstood. I 'vaguely and confusedly' think it might have been something linked from an Italian source that I went to and google-translated. It would have been a couple days after the trial and at best I recall basically that he was thinking about it but there were concerns he might receive a longer sentence. I'm pretty sure his whole name, Valter Biscotti, was used. Perhaps a google-search in Italian might reveal the source?
 
... However no one notes that he's also writing a book, has a civil case pending against the Sollecito's for 'damages' and his lawyer is still working to help put Amanda and Amanda's parents in jail on two other cases still to be heard.

...

I tried to pin down the issue of the civil case without success. My questions:
1. Did the second RS/AK trial include civil actions against them?
2. If the trial included a civil suit by the Kerchers was that suit explicitly settled by the Hellman court, presumably in the favor of RS/AK.
3. Are you sure that Kercher has initiated another suit against RS/AK families? It was reported in this thread that he had but the links and stories looked more equivocal on the matter as I recall.
4. Where would Kercher initiate his suit. Presumably he has already lost his suit in Italy if my understanding of that is correct. Can he just sue again on the same facts in Italy? That seems doubtful.
5. What is the legal theory that would make either the RS or the AK families liable in Italy. If RS/AK did the deed why aren't they responsible and not their families? Especially RS, wasn't he over 21 at the time of the crime?
 
No, Rudy Guede will only be a source of problems for Knox and Sollecito in the future.
He has not became "guilty" of anything more, by now. He has not committed any burglary.
But if he gains a new trial, not only he will not tke any risk, he will also most likely be released.
His game - if legally conducted by his lawyers - will be: do you think I have committed a burglary and murdered alone? Then prove it.
If he is entitled a new trial on this, he has very good chances to be released in the meanwhile. And he would stay in freedom for two or three years at least (if not forever).
But this only can happen if Knox and Sollecito had won at the Cassazione. If they loose, the story will be way different.

In that case the blame would fall on Mignini for wrongfully prosecuting Amanda and Raffaele, not the two innocents for not being convicted!

You're not going to win this one, Machiavelli! Think about it. :)
 
He was acquitted with 530.1. They cannot convict him again for burglary.

How could they possibly acquit him? Is this just fallout from trying to prosecute Amanda and Raffaele on the 'staged' break-in? What a weird loophole.
 
How do you know that was a false testimony?
Nobody ever established it was false.
Moreover Rudy was legitimized in his claim by the Supreme Court. He did not claim anythig different from what officially established.

Machiavelli, have you considered the possibility the court found the restored computer data compelling? We don't much talk about it, but it was added in the appeals addendum and thus germane to the issue of their alibi.
 
I know the semen stain was never tested but was it ever collected ? Just in case ? Rudy acts like he never finished business because his bowel movement got the best of him overriding his desire to finish what he started. I don't recall reading anywhere that he admits the semen stain on the pillow is his, just that he had sex with the victim.

That facet was suggested in the story Alessi and the others testified to in court.
 
I tried to pin down the issue of the civil case without success. My questions:
1. Did the second RS/AK trial include civil actions against them?

Yes; the same as the first trial.


2. If the trial included a civil suit by the Kerchers was that suit explicitly settled by the Hellman court, presumably in the favor of RS/AK.

Yes.

3. Are you sure that Kercher has initiated another suit against RS/AK families? It was reported in this thread that he had but the links and stories looked more equivocal on the matter as I recall.

They are rumored by the tabloid press to be considering another suit (presumably in a different jurisdiction; one is inclined to say "good luck with that").

4. Where would Kercher initiate his suit. Presumably he has already lost his suit in Italy if my understanding of that is correct. Can he just sue again on the same facts in Italy? That seems doubtful.

If they're actually looking into this, I think they're going to find that there really isn't any way.

5. What is the legal theory that would make either the RS or the AK families liable in Italy. If RS/AK did the deed why aren't they responsible and not their families? Especially RS, wasn't he over 21 at the time of the crime?

None; the suit against AK's parents is being brought by the police and does not involve the Kerchers.
 
Thanks for the answers komponisto.

As an aside one of the things that I didn't notice right away was that not being able to understand Italian makes it difficult to research some issues of this case.

...

None; the suit against AK's parents is being brought by the police and does not involve the Kerchers.

I wasn't referring to the defamation suits against the RS/AK families.

I was referring to the Kercher suits against RS/AK. I thought the parties being sued included the families. There was talk in this thread about the financial ability of the families to pay damages and I assumed that they were being sued. Perhaps this wasn't the case and the suits were only against RS/AK. If that was so, could the families be forced to pay judgments against their children?
 
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I tried to pin down the issue of the civil case without success. My questions:
1. Did the second RS/AK trial include civil actions against them?

The same one from the first, appealed. Someone mentioned privately the other day that the Kerchers may have demanded payment after the result of the first trial, which of course they weren't entitled to. I vaguely recall coming across that myself, the strategy was to impair/denounce the 'PR campaign' as they shouldn't be spending money on that when they 'owed' the Kerchers money. I am not certain of this, or that reason I seem to recall.

Patrick had a civil suit and was rewarded, I forget what it was, 30k Euros? Something like that.

2. If the trial included a civil suit by the Kerchers was that suit explicitly settled by the Hellman court, presumably in the favor of RS/AK.

Yes.

3. Are you sure that Kercher has initiated another suit against RS/AK families? It was reported in this thread that he had but the links and stories looked more equivocal on the matter as I recall.

No, this is different. Mignini filed charges against five Sollecitos for what amounts to 'using undue influence' (Masonic networks!) or somesuch to get the Telenorba broadcast of the crime scene videos that included the bra clasp 'collection.' Maresca took up the 'civil part' which claimed damages to the Kerchers for that 1-2 second blurry scene of the neck wound. In my view basically Mignini was trying to silence the Sollecitos and Maresca was there to help.

Maresca also took up the 'civil part' in the actions against Amanda for the (entirely separate--there are two calunnia charges against Amanda) interrogation by police. He did the same when they filed charges against Amanda's parents for their statements in an article which is no longer available online! I just checked for it, I've linked it a dozen times, the last time to expose that Follain had either relied on a mendacious distortion of a 'translation' of Amanda's story to pretend that there was a rape scene in it, or had himself changed the words to make the fight between the brothers a rape.

At any rate, if you check this thread you'll find some discussion on the topic, you won't find anyone (that I can recall) answering my repeated question of what could have possibly been actionable about it. Basically all they did is say what Amanda had told them, it wasn't even an accusation and they were pretty reasonable about it, but the theory is the cops wanted to shut up any talk about the interrogation. They filed this right as the decision came down, the day or so before the original verdict. The article was from June 15th, 2008.


4. Where would Kercher initiate his suit. Presumably he has already lost his suit in Italy if my understanding of that is correct. Can he just sue again on the same facts in Italy? That seems doubtful.

As I noted, there are still three criminal suits pending against Amanda, Amanda's parents, and five Sollecitos. Maresca took up the civil part in all three, two on behalf of the police and one on behalf of the Kerchers.

5. What is the legal theory that would make either the RS or the AK families liable in Italy. If RS/AK did the deed why aren't they responsible and not their families? Especially RS, wasn't he over 21 at the time of the crime?

As noted these were separate charges Mignini filed in addition to what went through the appeals trial recently. Maresca involved himself in all of them, even though they are all three basically trumped up.
 
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No, I just sent Hoyle an e-mail, which she was kind enough to answer, but she just confirmed that Lumumba had told her what was in the interview. Well, she must confirm it I guess, but never the less. Anyone can try to get her to reveal more details. I don't think she will let us look at her working material, anyway.

I agree with you that if Lumumba was abused by the police, this would show that Knox's story is probably true. Knox's lawyers maybe should try to get Lumumba to appear under oath and tell the truth?

Amanda's lawyer could pay Hoyle for a recording of the interview with Lumumba.

It might be a lucrative investment.
 
Thanks for the answers komponisto.

As an aside one of the things that I didn't notice right away was that not being able to understand Italian makes it difficult to research some issues of this case.

There is always the joy of google translate. You put perfectly good Italian into it, and it comes out in a very strange mixture of English and gobblety-gook. It has the additional charming habit of mixing up male and female pronouns, as well as sometimes dropping negation in sentences. I have described the process of reading too much of it as akin to having a railroad spike driven through one's head.

Rose read, or attempted to read, the Massei Report through google translate. This might be considered attempted suicide by aggravated brain hemorrhaging in some jurisdictions!


I was referring to the Kercher suits against RS/AK. I thought the parties being sued included the families. There was talk in this thread about the financial ability of the families to pay damages and I assumed that they were being sued. Perhaps this wasn't the case and the suits were only against RS/AK. If that was so, could the families be forced to pay judgments against their children?

The big suit, against Raffaele and Amanda which they lost, could only have been against them, not their parents. Amanda had about 5k dollars, and should have gotten about 25-50k Euros for the unauthorized publication of her diary.

Raffaele's mother was wealthy and left him ~3 million Euros in property in her will.

I am unsure of the dollar amounts demanded from the parents of Amanda and the Sollecitos for those trumped up charges.
 
None; the suit against AK's parents is being brought by the police and does not involve the Kerchers.[/QUOTE]

Except that... Maresca (memba him?) is representing the police in this action. Just when you think you have heard it all and that Italian lawyers and prosecutors must certainly think everyone else in the whole world are idiots....here comes some more Maresca. And I bet they pick Mattenni as judge.

Ok briefly on the last few pages...

Meredith did indeed have a boyfriend back in England...and sadly or oddly or whatever, she was wearing a old pair of his jeans when she was attacked, raped, and murdered by Rudy Guede. They can be seen laying on the floor near her murdered body in several crime scene photos.

During his summation Luca Maori ask that charges be filed against several people ( I don’t have the names at my fingertips) for actions against his client RS. At last the defendants finally take some offensive position.

Randy I have all the same questions you do and I suppose someone will have to contact Burelgh to get the answer. This gold watch issue is important because it adds another layer of proof that Mignini and company are responsible for allowing a known criminal to roam free on the streets of Perugia and so to enable on the night of 1 November 2007 this dangerous and well known criminal to burgle, rape and kill Meredith Kercher. It seems clear to me by allowing a known dangerous criminal free to roam the streets of the city you have a duty to protect, then you have failed your duty and you have allowed crimes to happen that you must share the blame in or at least be investigated to the degree to assure that you could have done things differently in order to protect the public. Its clear that a formal investigation needs to be taken against Perugia Police and the Prosecutors office since they clearly failed to protect Meredith from a well known criminal who is constantly ignored for his crimes rather than being locked safely away from young helpless students. This case was a distraction against unanswerable questions as to why the police failed to lock up a known and quite active criminal. Anyone? Yummi?


For the slander charge to remain against Knox is impossible. It must be overturned by the Supreme Court because Knox Must Know that Lumumba is innocent for there to be slander. Even today it would be impossible to know this for certain. Lumumba could have left his bar at 11 and been an accomplice within the prosecutions TOD. It is mentioned in several statements, even one of his own that he was very fond of Meredith. At one point he wants to have a Meredith night at his bar. Then we have Lumumbas cell ping near the cottage and we have his sim card change the next day....now add the police certainty about his involvement and their claim to AK that she must be covering (but in reality she knows she is not covering for anyone) so he just may well be guilty. Certainly it would be impossible for Knox to know Lumumba was innocent especially now that we know and the court has decreed that she did not commit the crimes A,B,C,and D. Then we have that Donnono mind meld transdisportation ( I just made that word up) theory about lost memories during broken ankles and so she had to be there but she was not and so how exactly do you sustain a ridiculous claim of slander against the man you are told did it? Anyone ? Yummi?

I say that is a not guilty too.

But I bet Hellmanns motivation report ventures into Massei (crazy ) land for that part. And we again will hear words like… imagine if you will, in theory, its probable…and any other number of ridiculous words that have no place in a finding of fact, but which Italian judges seem perfectly comfortable using without even cracking a smile as they condemn the innocent to life…reduced to 26 years. This is Mafiosi!
 
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