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Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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I just went back to Massei and was pleased when I read the following quotes:

At the hearing of June 27, 2009, the witness Maria Antonietta Salvadori Del Prato Titone testified that on the morning of October 27, 2007, a Saturday, as she entered the nursery school at via Plinio 16, Milan, of which she was the principal, she noticed coming out of her office a person whom she didn't know, later identified as Rudy Guede. There were no signs of a break-in. There was some money missing from the money box, but just small change. Rudy Guede had a backpack inside which was a computer. Called at once, the police made him open the backpack, in which they found a 40cm kitchen knife.

The witnesses Paolo Brocchi and Matteo Palazzoli, lawyers, testified on the subject of the burglary of their legal office, located in via del Roscetto 3, Perugia, on the night between Saturday October 13 and Sunday October 14, 2007. The thief or thieves had entered through a window whose panes had been smashed with a rather large stone; the glass was scattered around. Later, the lawyer Paolo Brocchi recognised this person as Rudy Guede

This, alone, makes me believe that:
a)Guede was the murderer of Meredith;
b)Guede was the one who broke in through a window on Via Della Pergola on November 1st 2007

I'm amazed that it wasn't enough to leave Knox and Sollecito alone.
 
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Misseri loves company (maybe the third time around the message will get through)

Yea, the high profile nature of the case has nothing whatsoever to do with her hotness.

Nothing at all.

:boggled:

What a waste of time.
NoahFence,

It's a dollars-to-donuts bet that Sabrina Misseri is grateful for the attention that has flowed from the Knox/Sollecito case toward hers in the murder of Sarah Scazzi. I hope Frank Sfarzo, who blogged on the K/S case will continue to follow this one as well. The Scazzi murder investigation looks even more ridiculous, if that is possible.
 
NoahFence,

It's a dollars-to-donuts bet that Sabrina Misseri is grateful for the attention that has flowed from the Knox/Sollecito case toward hers in the murder of Sarah Scazzi. I hope Frank Sfarzo, who blogged on the K/S case will continue to follow this one as well. The Scazzi murder investigation looks even more ridiculous, if that is possible.

Can't say I'm totally up to speed on that case, or on the Knox case to be honest. All I know is the world would never know the names Amada Knox, Casey Anthony, or Natalee Holloway if they weren't so damn photogenic. And it appears that in the Knox case, we now have a hot sister! Awesome!

:boggled:
 
Daily Mail has yet another set of pictures of Amanda out and about.
She looks tired, I think. It must be overwhelming for her.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2049941/Another-day-freedom-Amanda-Knox.html
Yes. She looked very happy in the first pics: The ones where she was strolling in the sun with a male friend. But since then, she looks sad. The ones with Madison Paxton and now with Deanna show her looking worn out and wary. And of course they are saying on pmf that it is due to her "conscience kicking in". sigh.
 
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Can't say I'm totally up to speed on that case, or on the Knox case to be honest. All I know is the world would never know the names Amada Knox, Casey Anthony, or Natalee Holloway if they weren't so damn photogenic. And it appears that in the Knox case, we now have a hot sister! Awesome!

:boggled:

I agree that Knox is a particularly attractive woman and that was part of the hook that made this story famous. However, I think, far the more important reason the story gained so much publicity is the uniqueness of the crime alleged. If the story had been college student raped and murdered during a burglary attempt by a known thief very few people would have heard of this story outside of the local area.

And that is one reason, to be very skeptical of some of the reporting. The writers had a huge vested interest to find evidence for a highly unusual (I would say unique) crime since that story would generate interest internationally. I think the potential for fame in prosecuting a news worthy story might be one of the biases that drove Mignini to make flawed conclusions about this case.

It is interesting and not a little disturbing to see how an initial determination of guilt probably fueled by various self interest biases could turn into this wildly unjust prosecution fueled largely by uncontrolled and unexamined confirmation biases and the self interest bias of just not wanting to admit that you had been wrong.

Many people have made this point, but I wanted to add my concurrence. The US is not immune to this kind of thing and seeing this as some sort of uniquely Italian problem is just wrong. Unfortunately, many people in the US have been convicted of crimes that they didn't commit and examples of the misuse of scientific investigation techniques, outright fraud, and massive prosecutorial confirmation bias are all easy to find.
 
Can't say I'm totally up to speed on that case, or on the Knox case to be honest. All I know is the world would never know the names Amada Knox, Casey Anthony, or Natalee Holloway if they weren't so damn photogenic. And it appears that in the Knox case, we now have a hot sister! Awesome!

:boggled:

We probably wouldn't have heard the archaic and sexist prosecution argument that Amanda is a seductress witch/she-devil either. Her looks definitely played a role, to her own detriment.
 
This was posted by Otto on Websleuths, in response to something I was asking regarding the time the prosecutorial appeal might take. If what he says here is correct, then I am satisfied, at this point, that the case is over, in all but the most superficial sense.
I rather doubt it. Hellman's ruling concluded that Knox and Sollecito did not participate in the murder. The prosecution must have permission to appeal, and if that permission is granted and the appeal verdict is successfully appealed, then the Supreme Court will send the case back to the Appeal court for another review. The Supreme Court ruling could take another 9 months or year, then another year or so for the appeal, then another Supreme Court hearing ... could take several years.

Personally, I think Italy (politics) wants to be done with the case. Hellman stated that the pair may have been involved, but he did not think there was enough evidence to connect them to the murder. Another judge (+lay-judges) may rule differently, but I suspect that the case against Knox and Sollecito is now done simply because it became an international nightmare.
Anyone from the US charged with a crime in Europe should follow the process (PR firm, media pressure, political connections) used by the Knox/Mellas family to increase their chances of avoiding a prison sentence.
 
For once, I think he's right. I'm not sure about the calumny conviction though. I don't understand how Hellmann came up with that in the first place, and I wonder if that is susceptible to overturning at Supreme Court level.

Rolfe.
 
Can't say I'm totally up to speed on that case, or on the Knox case to be honest. All I know is the world would never know the names Amada Knox, Casey Anthony, or Natalee Holloway if they weren't so damn photogenic. And it appears that in the Knox case, we now have a hot sister! Awesome!

:boggled:

Amanda is photogenic, that's true, however, the attention grabber in this case was the nature of the crime, the mystery around it and the theories that popped out one after another. Amanda's looks did play a huge part, but I'm not sure if it wasn't just an addition.

I remember when I learned about the case back in 2007. I was working on my laptop and the news came on the tv that there is a "murder mystery that involves two students and a bar owner. All three of them killed a British student after she refused to take part in some sort of a sex game." It, basically, caused me to abandon work and perform a Google search and the first thing I typed was Meredith Kercher, not Amanda Knox. It was only after few days that everyone seemed to be focusing on Amanda's looks. Raffaele was hardly mentioned and Meredith was just a victim. I remember also that during the first weeks, when I had no knowledge about the evidence, I thought how weird that a young American student along with her new Italian boyfriend and her boss (then replaced by Guede) would kill another young girl during a sex game. I couldn't imagine these people performing any kind of sex game together. To date, even though the suspects swifted and the stories changed, no one came forward with a logical scenario as to how the alleged sex game looked like between Knox/Sollecito/Guede and Meredith Kercher. It was then, when I stared to think that there must be something wrong with the investigation and that something's just not adding up.

As I've said, for me, the most interesting thing about this case is the murder and the mystery around it and multiple theories. AK and RS are free and innocent, however it was more than fascinating to read all those stories for the past 4 years.
 
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Hey they stole my story. :)

I just don't understand why Koko's involvement wasn't a subject all along. I'd say the supertanker really missed the boat (pun intended) by not having all the US media telling this story over and over.

We've known Koko was there since early 2008 and that his story looked like a cover for what he was really doing there. Too bad that they didn't tell his "eye witness" account including olives and cell phones.
 
Can't say I'm totally up to speed on that case, or on the Knox case to be honest. All I know is the world would never know the names Amada Knox, Casey Anthony, or Natalee Holloway if they weren't so damn photogenic. And it appears that in the Knox case, we now have a hot sister! Awesome!

:boggled:

If Meredith wasn't a young attractive woman the PG sites would never have existed. TJMK definitely wouldn't have been started.

The PG sites won't be looking to preserve the memory of unattractive victims.
 
For once, I think he's right. I'm not sure about the calumny conviction though. I don't understand how Hellmann came up with that in the first place, and I wonder if that is susceptible to overturning at Supreme Court level.

Rolfe.



I'm going to have to beg to differ. I think Otto's reasoning is completely incorrect. The reason why the case is over regarding Knox and Sollecito and the murder charges (plus the staging, theft and transportation of the knife) is that there's no evidence which points to their guilt of these crimes. There appear to be no solid grounds for a prosecution appeal to the Supreme Court on these charges. Even if a prosecution Supreme Court appeal were to be successful, and the murder (etc) charges were referred back for retrial at appeal court level, I am near certain that Knox and Sollecito would be "re-acquitted" in such a retrial.

Furthermore, Otto is regurgitating two pieces of nonsense that have become part of the pro-guilt rationalisation mantra: firstly, (s)he is asserting that Hellmann, in some post-trial remarks, "stated that the pair may have been involved, but he did not think there was enough evidence to connect them to the murder". This is a total distortion of what Hellmann said. Hellmann's point was essentially that he does not know what happened on the night of the murder (and nor was it his court's job to try to determine what happened). He stated that Guede most certainly does know, and that it's possible that Knox and Sollecito also know (and were also involved). He's stating a philosophically-correct position that neither he nor anyone else (other than Knox, Sollecito and Guede) can know with certainty whether or not Knox or Sollecito participated in the murder. But that is categorically not to suggest that Hellmann's position is that Knox or Sollecito might have been involved, in the sense that they should be viewed as suspects. Rather, it means that Knox and/or Sollecito might have been involved in the same sense that anyone in or around Perugia on that night (who doesn't have an unimpeachable alibi for the time of the murder) might have been involved.

Secondly, Otto clearly suggests that a particular "process" (his/her word) employed by Knox and her family/friends had a material impact upon the Hellmann court's verdict. In Otto's mind, this malevolent "process" is some diabolical combination of "PR firm, media pressure (and) political connections", and (s)he is clearly insinuating that it had a measurable effect upon the outcome of the appeal trial. My position is that this "argument" is arrant nonsense, is an insult to the integrity of Hellmann's court (and the Italian judiciary in general), and is totally unsupported by any evidence.

Anyhow, notwithstanding all of the above, to me the really interesting part of the Supreme Court issue is that concerning a Knox defence appeal over the Lumumba slander charge. I personally feel that Knox's lawyers have pretty good grounds for a successful appeal on a couple of points of law related to this charge. But the more interesting question is this: does Knox herself (and her lawyers) actually want a successful Supreme Court appeal on this charge? After all, a successful appeal will only lead to a retrial at appeal court level. And even though I think Knox would have a high chance of acquittal in any retrial on this single charge, I have to wonder whether she (or her family) would want to travel back to Perugia and spend weeks if not months attending a retrial. This, to me, is by far the most interesting thing left to discuss.
 
For once, I think he's right. I'm not sure about the calumny conviction though. I don't understand how Hellmann came up with that in the first place, and I wonder if that is susceptible to overturning at Supreme Court level.

Rolfe.
I may be cynical, but I believed Hellman ruled as he did on the calumnia charge ("three years of imprisonment for that") to show he was not being soft, before the reforma verdicts came on charges A-E.
 
I just went back to Massei and was pleased when I read the following quotes:





This, alone, makes me believe that:
a)Guede was the murderer of Meredith;
b)Guede was the one who broke in through a window on Via Della Pergola on November 1st 2007

I'm amazed that it wasn't enough to leave Knox and Sollecito alone.

Thanks for the quotes. I had forgotten that the lawyer identified Rudy as the burglar. In the past, guilters have tried to give credence to Rudy's story that he bought the stolen goods off of somebody else. That he was identified as the culprit undermines that claim. Even if he hadn't been identified, his story still wouldn't be credible considering his linkage to another crime with a very similar break-in. Way too coincidental.

The break-in evidence and Rudy's history as a cat burglar is what clinched it for me. And the mountain of tangible, non-ambiguous evidence proving his presence at the crime scene during the murder is just icing on the cake. Meanwhile guilters have to rely on amateur footprint "measurements" of partial bloody prints on tuft surfaces, weak traces of DNA on "weapons" that can be excluded from the main stab wounds, and other ambiguous evidence.

Edit: I just read more of Massei and he was not identified as "the burglar" but as the man trying to sell stolen goods.
 
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I may be cynical, but I believed Hellman ruled as he did on the calumnia charge ("three years of imprisonment for that") to show he was not being soft, before the reforma verdicts came on charges A-E.

I was thinking that he knows it will be sent back to a court of the first instance because Massei shouldn't have allowed the two cases to be tried at the same time. Also the defense didn't dare attack the cops and risk more charges from Mignini.
 
WORLD EXCLUSIVE: AMANDA KNOX COCAINE DEAL SCANDAL!

Published on: October 17, 2011
by NATIONAL ENQUIRER staff


A secret drug deal took place just before the grisly murder of AMANDA KNOX’s tragic roommate – and it could have changed the course of the sensational case had it come to light during Amanda’s trial!

Highly placed Italian insiders told The ENQUIRER that Rudy Guede – the convicted killer who implicated Amanda and her Italian boyfriend in the murder of British exchange student Meredith Kercher – met with a mystery man, a drug dealer, outside Meredith’s home on the fateful night.

But that information was squelched by overzealous prosecutors bent on prov*ing their theory that the American beauty orchestrated the bloody slaughter in a drug- and sex-fueled frenzy.

Shockingly, the bombshell evidence hid*den during their trial could have instantly cleared 24-year-old Amanda and her Ital*ian lover Raffaele Sollecito of Meredith Kercher’s brutal slaying.

“Had Rudy Guede revealed what he knew, a fourth person would have been implicated in the murder and Amanda and Raffaele never would have been con*victed in Meredith’s death,” a close source told The ENQUIRER.
http://www.nationalenquirer.com/celebrity/world-exclusive-amanda-knox-cocaine-deal-scandal
 
Thanks for the quotes. I had forgotten that the lawyer identified Rudy as the burglar. In the past, guilters have tried to give credence to Rudy's story that he bought the stolen goods off of somebody else. That he was identified as the culprit undermines that claim. Even if he hadn't been identified, his story still wouldn't be credible considering his linkage to another crime with a very similar break-in. Way too coincidental.

The break-in evidence and Rudy's history as a cat burglar is what clinched it for me. And the mountain of tangible, non-ambiguous evidence proving his presence at the crime scene during the murder is just icing on the cake. Meanwhile guilters have to rely on amateur footprint "measurements" of partial bloody prints on tuft surfaces, weak traces of DNA on "weapons" that can be excluded from the main stab wounds, and other ambiguous evidence.

Rudy went to the lawyers and told he had purchased the stuff in Milan. Who could doubt that? Everyone knows that Perugian thieves sell their stuff in Milan.
 
The has been one or two parties consistently proclaiming that Meredith Kercher has been forgotten. I have been following Google Trends for some time and the news coverage has been pretty even between the two. Only since the Hellmann verdict has Amanda Knox received more coverage than what's-her-name. Web searches have always been skewed towards Amanda. This may simply be because Amanda Knox is easier to remember and type.

An interesting recent trend, I compared the trends for: Amanda Knox innocent, Amanda Knox guilty and Amanda Knox not guilty. The guilty searches far outnumber the others which in itself is surprising. But more interesting is those searches are mostly generated from two cities, London and New York. It's almost like there is a conspiracy between those two. But who could they possibly be?
 
The has been one or two parties consistently proclaiming that Meredith Kercher has been forgotten. I have been following Google Trends for some time and the news coverage has been pretty even between the two. Only since the Hellmann verdict has Amanda Knox received more coverage than what's-her-name. Web searches have always been skewed towards Amanda. This may simply be because Amanda Knox is easier to remember and type.

An interesting recent trend, I compared the trends for: Amanda Knox innocent, Amanda Knox guilty and Amanda Knox not guilty. The guilty searches far outnumber the others which in itself is surprising. But more interesting is those searches are mostly generated from two cities, London and New York. It's almost like there is a conspiracy between those two. But who could they possibly be?

Name one person Harris and Klebold killed.

Name one person Bundy killed.

Meredith has not been forgotten. Had they just convicted Rudy she would have been much more so.
 
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