I don't know if you saw the weird fantasy they had about an Amanda Knox arrest in Canada decades from now. Remember they were expecting
- disaster at trial
- disaster in sentencing
- a disaster when Amanda returns home
I didn't, I don't pop in often. I did a little while ago and saw something about gathering 'ammo' against 'groupies' saying mean things, and either that time or another Fiona suggest perhaps an innocent position was ethical. However I have a feeling I know how that's going to work out, (or already has) I don't have to watch it.
It's kind of like a Three's Company plot: everything predicated on some mindless misunderstanding and you know how it's going to turn out.
None of which has happen. Right now AK has to decide if she wants to be a celebrity or not. She's going to do the tough interview, where the police can't hit her with calumina for using words like "coercion" and discussing the facts of the interrogation. And of course my guess is the PDL might help her by leaking other cases where there has been severe judicial misconduct.
What's your take on the current political situation there?
She could be mighty impressive and effective with a little coaching.
Perhaps, I'd like to see her speaking English and not crying so I could make a better determination!
I don't think it will be a problem. Mignini has done much worse during this trial. No one who supports him now is going to be shocked he badmouthed the court.
I think I've managed to confuse this issue. What I was getting at was directly after the trial when Giulia Buongiorno left there were reportedly members of the police union waiting outside to 'protest' and shout "shame" at her and others as they left, if I recall correctly someone might have thrown something at her too. Some said Mignini got similar treatment, and reports seemed somewhat unnerved. I was simply suggesting that might be remembered by some in the long run, and struck me as rather arrogant behavior.
Yeah. He is a major prosecutor. That was one of the reasons to keep the support up, so Amanda didn't die in an accident.
I will forgo the Newark joke!
It was not an attempt to offend, I had a buddy once from New Jersey and in addition to telling me
continuously that New Jersey was the most densely populated state in the union, he'd also regale me with horror stories about the mean streets of Newark. I thought maybe it was a common joke there or something, kinda like me and Chicago at times.
Personally I didn't fear that, my guess was Mignini was so delusional he actually thought he'd win, and I don't think he's quite that type, cheating to do 'justice' is one thing, murder quite another.
I understand your theory. I just don't see that level of brain washing in 2 hrs. She has to build a seperate plan of events, like leaving Raffaele's house after they make love and going to back home to hear the murder...
<snip>
I understand. But that's pretty tricky.
1) You have to have her create a narrative and attach imagery to it.
2) She has to believe that narrative as memory. Which means forgetting the construction process.
3) She was to repeat it over and over, and deal with the tons of missing detail.
In a few hours?
That's not what I think they did, ironically in a sense it might have even appeared to be a rational argument. They found out that night she'd been doing hash the night of the murder, and of course she couldn't remember a detailed timeline, giving the cops the opportunity to push the idea that if she couldn't do that, then her memory was impaired. Amanda's tired, stressed, not thinking right with all the yelling and shouting, and they're even more suspicious because she hadn't told them about Patrick's text, putting her even more on the defensive and suggesting even moreso her memory was impaired, even though we both know it doesn't work like
that, she may not know for sure, and they're certainly willing to tell her it must!
They add in the 'repressed memory' element, pushing the phone in her face, demanding to know who she said she was going to meet, not listening to her pleas that they've got it wrong, she didn't meet anyone, she didn't mean it that way. She can't figure out how they could have 'hard evidence' at the scene or why Raffaele would say she left that night, she protests she doesn't remember anything like that, it couldn't be true. They're not buying any of this, they think the wicked little hip-wiggler must be
lying! She must be
guilty! Rita Ficarra decides to give her a little physical 'encouragement' while she's desperately trying to work all this out and she comes up with these images, just 'flashes' trying to imagine what could have happened, the whole time they're insisting something
must have.
So now she has an 'explanation!' Maybe the 'flashes' are part of the night coming back to her! She thought of Patrick because they led her right to him and tried to stuff the phone down her throat, but all she gets are a few thoughts of him vaguely associated with the cottage, basketball courts, etc. That's enough for them! They'll fill in the blanks, and to her
at this moment it must seem the answer to everything! It explains how they could have 'hard evidence' of her being at the scene, why Raffaele might have said she went out, and the police suspicions of Patrick, which they've been pretty clear about without mentioning his name by asking so many questions where the answer could only be him. It seems a revelation!
However, she wasn't thinking clearly, horribly stressed, sleep deprived, wholly uncomfortable, perhaps from having to talk nearly continuously without water and forbidden bathroom 'privileges.' They connect the dots, getting some sort of affirmative as to whether Patrick liked Meredith, this could have been as simple whether or not she thought he liked her with a little hyperbole added in by the friendly Perugian translation service just for color. If you look at the first 1:45 AM statement below with the improved translation by
Komponisto, there's just
not that much in the 1:45 AM statement. They didn't do due diligence here, they just got her 'admission' and her signature, not much else.
Mignini gets called in, and he sees how sparse the 'confession' is, perhaps doesn't think he's got enough, and goes through it again with her. As I highlight below, basically everything is qualified, she doesn't
know any of this stuff, she's just guessing with the helpful attendance of Mignini and company, coming up with the answers to fill in the blanks, but nothing really
certain because she doesn't actually 'remember' any of this. That's where the "Fine. We'll write that down. Fine." and her explaining how Mignini would ask how she went here, followed him here etc. in her testimony. She has no 'flashes' for this part, all she has is the few she mentioned, everything else is confabulation, duly noted for the careful reader of the 5:45 Statement. See how it works below?
Mignini's not actually going to use this for anything but an admission she and Patrick were at the scene. His narrative before Matteini is his own pornographic fantasy, the most described here is her cowering in the kitchen, and nothing really more is implied than Patrick and Meredith went to her room probably for sex, she screamed and presumably he killed her. So all that was really needed from her was that 'confession' basically founded upon those flashes, there's no massive brainwashing at work, no hallucinations really, just a few mental images and the mind of Mignini helping her very vaguely connect them, because he doesn't care all that much, he has his own scenario in mind and probably figures if she admits to this she admits to being involved in the murder, which means he can take from there--as he does.
So really it's just the job they did convincing her she must have been there, not just with all the pressure and intermittent cajoling, but also that it was the only explanation. She probably figures they know the rest of the answers. Her 'memory' is just those mental images, which for a while she thinks must be the answer, with them assuring her the rest will 'come back to her' when she balks. She
can't 'remember' the rest, just as your memory of yesterday isn't a reel-to-reel film, probably bits and pieces here and there and the associations. If you stop and think you can probably figure out what you were probably doing at a certain time, but not for the whole thing in one perfect recollection unless you are exceptionally blessed.
However, being as she
doesn't actually recall all this, and her condition being terribly stressed, sleep deprived and generally miserable, she's still confused and keeps trying to make that clear to them. They keep asking her questions she can't possibly answer, and they keep pushing her to try to get something real, however there's only so far she can go, which is what is reflected in all the qualifiers I highlighted below. They've momentarily convinced her she must have been there, and it must have been Patrick she was with, as that fits with Raffaele leaving and the 'hard evidence,' however the 'inconsistencies' bother her and she's tried to explain but they don't want to hear it, they got what they want and they're done with her, so she gets some paper so she can try to explain why she's so confused.
I agree. He's a great villain for all sorts of TV shows. Cop shows are regular on television and the Mignini style prosecutor.... It would be great justice if Mignini becomes like Iago.
That's a good one, the veneer of such 'honesty and integrity' which is just a cover for a scheming manipulator with sordid ulterior motives. He'd probably like that better than the slug I've had in mind for him since the CNN interview.
No the book was on my "to read" list and I bought it. I still want to read it.
You can find the same information online, and he actually
confirms that he still thinks the body-swapping theory valid! The pants sizes and haircuts don't match! I found out the other day that I had the translation of the
entire CNN interview unedited on my computer. It was translated to 'show' how they supposedly cut it to make him look bad, the translation was reportedly pulled when the rest of us noted that he looks worse in the rest, so it was actually an attempt to make him look good!
Good point. All the Perugians are good, all the outsiders evil. That does a nice job of explaining the verdict.
'All politics is local.'
Not always true of course, but enough so that it's worth keeping in mind. Places far away can be out of mind for the average citizen.
I don't see it as that complex. Remember my early scenarios I started with. I think those are all defensible based on the evidence we have. Once you assume Amanda had motive to derail the murder investigation... Think about the Scooter Libby indictment for perjury and how it got Cheney and Rove off. The prosecutor just focused on the leak.
Actually I don't even follow that anymore, I only 'vaguely and confusedly' know what you're talking about.
Here's the thing though: do the statements and then the arrest of Patrick and the little victory parade through town, with the admission they 'matched the facts we knew to be correct,' fit with typical police procedure
anywhere? Cops can be stupid, but they usually want more than drivel when they're suspicious, and if they then take what they get and throw it in the dumpster anyway isn't that more an indication
they were running the show and not the stressed, sleep-deprived foreign exchange student barely out of her teens? Isn't that how it usually works, the twelve cops with the power and experience at doing so are the ones doing the manipulating?
Does Amanda
at the time have more of a motive to lie, or do the police, who know they can get away with it, have more of a motive to both scapegoat her and make it look like she's a scheming manipulative murderess to bolster their fraudulent case?
Perugia Police Department
Mobile Squad
Subject: Transcript of briefing [sommarie informazioni] by person informed of facts given by:
Amanda Marie KNOX, born in Washington [sic] (U.S.A.) on 7-09-87, resident in Perugia at Via della Pergola no.7;
identified via Passport N. 422687114 issued by the U.S. Government on 06-13-2007.
Date: November 6, 2007, at 1:45 am in Perugia, at the Offices of the Mobile Squad of the Perugia Police Department.
Present are the undersigned Officials of the Judicial Police, Inspector Rita FICARRA, and Officers Lorena ZUGARINI and Ivano RAFFO, in service at the office indicated above, and the named subject, who adequately understands and speaks the Italian language, assisted by English-language interpreter Anna Donnino, [and] who, regarding the death of Meredith Susanna Cara KERCHER, and following statements made previously, declares as follows:
"In addition to what has already been reported via the preceding statements rendered here at this Office, I wish to explain that I am aware of other persons whom I frequent and who have frequented (if occasionally) my residence, who have also made the acquaintance of Meredith, and whose cellular phone information [relative utenze cellulari] I [hereby] provide.
"One of these persons is Patrik, a citizen of color about 1.70-1.75 [m] tall, with pigtails, owner of the "Le Chic" pub located on Via Alessi, whom I know to live in the area near the Porta Pesa rotunda. Tel. 393387195723, a location where I am employed two times per week on Monday and Thursday, from 10:00 pm to around 2:00 am.
"Last Thursday, November 1, a day on which I normally work, while I was at the house of my boyfriend Raffaele, at around 8:30 pm, I received a message on my cellular phone from Patrik, who told me that the premises would remain closed that evening, because there were no customers, and thus I would not need to go to work.
"I responded to the message by telling him that we would see each other at once; I then left the house, telling my boyfriend that I had to go to work. In view of the fact that during the afternoon I had smoked a joint, I felt confused, since I do not frequently make use of mind-altering substances, nor of heavier substances.
"I met Patrik immediately afterward, at the basketball court on Piazza Grimana, and together we went [to my] home. I do not recall whether Meredith was there or arrived afterward. I struggle to remember those moments, but Patrik had sex with Meredith, with whom he was infatuated, but I do not recall whether Meredith had been threatened beforehand. I recall confusedly that he killed her."
The Office records that the statement was interrupted and that Amanda KNOX was placed at the disposition of the Judicial Authority for further proceedings.
5:45 am:
Quote:
Perugia Police Department
Mobile Squad
Subject: Transcript of spontaneous statement made by:
Amanda Marie KNOX, born in Washington [sic] (U.S.A) on 07-09-87, resident in Perugia at Via della Pergola no. 7;identified via Passport No. 422687114 issued by the U.S. Goverment on 06-13-2007
Date: November 6, 2007, at 5:45 am, in Perugia at the Offices of the Mobile Squad of the Police Department. Present are the undersigned Dr. Giuliano MIGNINI, Deputy Prosecutor at the Prosecutor's Office of the Tribunal of Perugia, and the Officials of the Judicial Police, Inspector Rita FICARRA, in service at the office indicated above, and the named subject, who, despite adequately understanding and speaking the Italian language, is assisted by the English-language interpreter Anna Donnino, and who, regarding the death of Meredith Susanna Cara KERCHER, declares as follows:
"I wish to spontaneously report what happened because this case has deeply disturbed me and I am very afraid of Patrick, the African owner if the pub called 'Le Chic' on Via Alessi where I occasionally work. I met him on the evening of the first of November, after having sent him a message replying to his, with the words 'see you' ['ci vediamo', lit. "we'll see each other"].
"We met immediately afterward around 9:00 pm at the basketball court on Piazza Grimana. We went to my house at Via Della Pergola no. 7.
I do not recall exactly whether my friend Meredith was already home or if she arrived later, [but] what I can say is that Patrik and Meredith went off to Meredith's room,
while it seems to me that I stayed in the kitchen.
I cannot recall how much time they stayed together in the room
but can only say that at a certain point I heard Meredith screaming and I, frightened, covered my ears.
Then I don't remember anything anymore, I am very confused in my head.
I do not recall whether Meredith was screaming
and if [I? she?](*) also heard thuds [tonfi] because I was involved,
but I was imagining what could have happened.
"I met Patrik this morning, in front of the Univeristy for Foreigners, and he asked me some questions, specifcially he wanted to know what questions I had been asked by the Police.
I think that he also asked if I wanted to meet with journalists
perhaps in order to find out if I knew anything about Meredith's death.
[I am] not sure whether Raffaele was present that evening but I do remember waking up at my boyfriend's house in his bed, and that I returned in the morning to my residence, where I found the door to the apartment open. When I woke up, the morning of November 2, I was in bed with my boyfriend."
It is recorded that KNOX repeatedly brings her hands to her head and shakes the latter.
Read[,] confirmed and signed [sottoscritto] at the time and place indicated above.
(*)what is written is senti, which does not make sense here; appears to be a typo for either sentii ("I heard") or sentì ("she heard"); sentivo ("I was hearing") or sentiva ("she was hearing") would also make (as much) sense.
