UFOs: The Research, the Evidence

[RoboTimbo]

Not enought information. Sure for some cases, but there are cases that have excellent amount of information and even: the better the information the more unknown the object is.

Let me know when you've ruled out every mundane explanation (not object).

This good information means that most mundane objects have been able to rule out and object is still unknown.

I'm going to need for you to list all the mundane explanations (not just objects) that you have ruled out to see if "most" have been ruled out.

Of course we could discuss cases with bad information, but to presume that UFO-phenomena exists only because of bad information is like putting your head into a bush and hide from the truth. Of course sceptical person can always say that there is not information enough, since: if we had enough information then there would be not the U in UFO. I think this goes rounds though like a dog chasing it´s tail.

Its goes round like a dog chasing its tail because the only cases presented in this thread have been the ones with bad information - anecdotes. I'm sure everyone would welcome a case that has good information.

What about cases that have excellent information and there still can´t be found a mundane explanation. Is there no room for speculation? The only thing we can do, is to say: "We don´t know". At least we know 99% of the objects it is not based on the good information (I am not talking about bad information cases here).

If you or anyone has a case with excellent information, you should present it here. And I'll need for you to list that "99%" of objects you've ruled out. Using a process of elimination, I have been able to rule out 100% of non-mundane explanations in the cases so far presented.

The remaining 1% is what all this is about. Some say aliens. Some say unknown mundane object. Maybe sometimes they are the same. I am not claiming though I am only saying: could be. At least it´s not totally impossible. Aliens proven: no.

If you aren't claiming anything, then there isn't anything to discuss. We're on the same page already. Skeptics already agree that it could be aliens, it just never has been.

Maybe instead of UFO´s we should investigate mundane phenomenon and find out the truth that way. What is the phenomena if not aliens. What is the answer. What mundane things are there yet to be found to explain good information cases. ET-hypothesis is the most interesting one so far. What other hypothesis there could be.

I think that's what UFOlogists do already, investigate mundane things. They just think they're investigating aliens.

 

[TjW]

I had an interesting experience last night. At about 11:00pm I saw a line of 4 yellow flickering lights moving across the sky from my backyard. I watched them from low in the horizon to nearly zenith. Its been rainy here and the cloud ceiling is low. They had to be pretty close. I assumed low flying helicopters. But as they approached I heard no noise and saw no running lights and they drifted oddly. Something was wrong. For a moment I hoped I was experiencing a real alien 'invasion'. And I consider myself a skeptic.

I had my binoculars nearby and a quick look showed the flickering yellow orbs to be candles. Probably only a few hundred feet away. I was witness to a chinese lantern invasion.

I guess I mention this because even the mundane can seem inexplicable. And the desire to witness something as unique as an alien visitation is pretty strong. Well, it was for me.

I, for one, welcome our new chinese lantern overlords.

 

[Akhenaten]

Tomi71,

Could you be specific please? What exactly is unexplained, for which you are asking for an explanation?

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[Spektator]

Did it look something like this?...

Now I'm wondering if Edge checked to see if his camper hadn't landed on and crushed a bad witch.

 

[Cuddles]

What is the phenomena if not aliens.

How many times do you have to be told this - there is no single explanation. Just in this thread off the top of my head, there have been blimps, boats, Venus, oil wells, malfunctioning aircraft equipment, fireflies, car headlights, photographic artefacts, and outright lies. None of those are absolutely 100% certain, but they're about as close as we can get given the information available.

So what is the phenomenon? There isn't one. There is no such thing as the UFO phenomenon. It's an entirely imaginary phenomenon made up by desperate believers trying to convince people not that their fantasy explanation is correct, but that there is even anything for them to fantasise about in the first place. This isn't like psychics and dowsing, where well known phenomena like cold reading and the ideomotor effect explain the majority of the appearance, it's just a random collection of completely unrelated stories that believers throw together in a big pile labelled "UFOs" in the hopes that people will pay attention to them.

 

[edge]

Did it look something like this?...

​

No we just noticed it there, and then after I snapped the picture it was gone.
It wasn't there longer than about half a minute or less.

We were trying to see if the camera was capable with flash for a night time photo.
We took one before it's arrival when the fire was peaking and one after it arrived or appeared.
I only needed the one shot so as to not waste the pictures, she took the first one I took the second one.
Right after I took the shot it faded out or vanished it just wasn’t there any longer.
We made fires every day it wasn’t a bug it wasn’t a bird, we did see flying insects dive into the fire even at night but this wasn’t the same.
Gee Mack Your misrepresenting what happened.
This orb was on the west side of the fire and if you notice in the first shot the flames are above my rock wall the flame is leaning to the east, so it wasn’t an ember because it would have been going the wrong direction into the wind it would have had to drift to the right side of the fire or over my camp area.
This is the photo before it appeared.
There is not enough heat there to make embers fly in the orb picture but in the first shot you would think there would be, the flame is hot enough to do that and it would have been reddish.
Good grief you even added sound, there was no sound, stop it!

 

[carlitos]

photographic artefacts, and outright lies.

That was eerily prescient.

 

[edge]

I had an interesting experience last night. At about 11:00pm I saw a line of 4 yellow flickering lights moving across the sky from my backyard. I watched them from low in the horizon to nearly zenith. Its been rainy here and the cloud ceiling is low. They had to be pretty close. I assumed low flying helicopters. But as they approached I heard no noise and saw no running lights and they drifted oddly. Something was wrong. For a moment I hoped I was experiencing a real alien 'invasion'. And I consider myself a skeptic.

I had my binoculars nearby and a quick look showed the flickering yellow orbs to be candles. Probably only a few hundred feet away. I was witness to a chinese lantern invasion.

I guess I mention this because even the mundane can seem inexplicable. And the desire to witness something as unique as an alien visitation is pretty strong. Well, it was for me.

Millions of sightings happen like yours, it’s that one in a million that is wrong that you can't figure out at all that can creep a person out.
Keep observing till you figure it out is exactly is what you need to do.

 

[Toke]

​

An accurate find.

 

[AdMan]

No we just noticed it there, and then after I snapped the picture it was gone.
It wasn't there longer than about half a minute or less.

We were trying to see if the camera was capable with flash for a night time photo.
We took one before it's arrival when the fire was peaking and one after it arrived or appeared.
I only needed the one shot so as to not waste the pictures, she took the first one I took the second one.
Right after I took the shot it faded out or vanished it just wasn’t there any longer.
We made fires every day it wasn’t a bug it wasn’t a bird, we did see flying insects dive into the fire even at night but this wasn’t the same.
Gee Mack Your misrepresenting what happened.
This orb was on the west side of the fire and if you notice in the first shot the flames are above my rock wall the flame is leaning to the east, so it wasn’t an ember because it would have been going the wrong direction into the wind it would have had to drift to the right side of the fire or over my camp area.
This is the photo before it appeared.
There is not enough heat there to make embers fly in the orb picture but in the first shot you would think there would be, the flame is hot enough to do that and it would have been reddish.

That's your best evidence for orbs?

Let me ask you this--if you were trying to photograph the orb, why didn't you center it in the frame?

I don't understand your claim that you didn't want to "waste pictures." You didn't want more evidence of something so out of the ordinary as a floating orb?

Here's what I think--you didn't see any orb when you were there, and only discovered this one when you looked at the picture.

That's exactly the way it works with photographic "orbs".

 

[edge]

How many times do you have to be told this - there is no single explanation. Just in this thread off the top of my head, there have been blimps, boats, Venus, oil wells, malfunctioning aircraft equipment, fireflies, car headlights, photographic artefacts, and outright lies. None of those are absolutely 100% certain, but they're about as close as we can get given the information available.

So what is the phenomenon? There isn't one. There is no such thing as the UFO phenomenon. It's an entirely imaginary phenomenon made up by desperate believers trying to convince people not that their fantasy explanation is correct, but that there is even anything for them to fantasise about in the first place. This isn't like psychics and dowsing, where well known phenomena like cold reading and the ideomotor effect explain the majority of the appearance, it's just a random collection of completely unrelated stories that believers throw together in a big pile labelled "UFOs" in the hopes that people will pay attention to them.

You are so absolutely right there is no such thing as a UFO that millions have seen through out history at one time or another.
Wow is you special.
Right then, we should end all of this nonsense.
There is no need for me to present anything else.
There that's settled.

 

[GeeMack]

You are so absolutely right there is no such thing as a UFO that millions have seen through out history at one time or another.
Wow is you special.
Right then, we should end all of this nonsense.
There is no need for me to present anything else.
There that's settled.

There is exactly as much evidence to suggest the alleged orb looked like this...

​

... as there is to suggest yours is an accurate description. There that's settled.

 

[Stray Cat]

You are so absolutely right there is no such thing as a UFO that millions have seen through out history at one time or another.
Wow is you special.
Right then, we should end all of this nonsense.
There is no need for me to present anything else.
There that's settled.

Is that a deliberate misrepresentation of what Cuddles was saying?

There is no single "UFO phenomenon"
No one is denying that UFOs are regularly seen and reported.

However, the only thing they have in common is that they are not identified by the people who see them. Some of them aren't flying and some of them aren't even objects.

 

[RoboTimbo]

You are so absolutely right there is no such thing as a UFO that millions have seen through out history at one time or another.
Wow is you special.
Right then, we should end all of this nonsense.
There is no need for me to present anything else.
There that's settled.

You may want to have someone explain to you what Cuddles's paragraph was saying.

 

[Akhenaten]

You are so absolutely right there is no such thing as a UFO that millions have seen through out history at one time or another.

​

Wow is you special.

​

Right then, we should end all of this nonsense.

​

There is no need for me to present anything else.

​

There that's settled.

​

 

[PetiteMalleolus]

John Albert -- No, no, what you had written was fine, and I wasn't asking for more, but, now that you've gone into great-detail, I say: Thanks a lot -- I couldn't possibly have asked for more. I have to keep this somewhat-short at the moment, and I'll catch-up to you later, but I'll at-least touch-on some of what you wrote -- actually, your post made me realize a lot of things that didn't even have to do with UFOs.

Sorry (and to everyone) -- You guys joke-around a lot, and I had figured that people would get my many jokes and exaggerations. Most of them were attempts to humorously simulate the kind of claims that you guys face all the time here in this forum, thus I wrote things like (with more detail added here):


"I know somebody who's the most knowledgeable, brilliant, talented, educated, reliable person in the world, so he must be right."

"I flew an alien ship to my buddy's house, but I only flew 1 mile*, everyone was sleeping, and cameras are banned in our county, so I can't give you guys any evidence." *- (obviously amounting to a mere blink-of-an-eye).

"I was absent during most of the Rramjett thread -- absent because I was abducted." --- and, of course, the last thing aliens, particularly those described by UFO-ET-advocates here, want is for someone to view the J.R.E.F. forums, particularly the skeptic forums.

"I've never believed, and never will, in any paranormal things -- so, obviously, this UFO-alien stuff I've seen is real."


I'm rather clueless in the fields of science and philosophy (slowly improving, though, I hope), and am more in the arts, so I'm used to going to lengths in "weaving tales" that aren't designed to be taken seriously, but, sorry, I should've realized that you guys aren't necessarily gonna realize that. However, while my stories weren't supposed to be believable, my fundamental questions to you guys have been quite non-fictional. It was indeed the case that I watched "UFOs Are Real" with a friend, and he found the stories that I've mentioned worthy of consideration, and I couldn't totally understand why. So, I figured I could get some input from you guys, and then me and him could toss-around whatever ideas I happen to pick up from you guys.

The thoughts from you guys have helped me confirm that most (I hope...) of what I'd picked up here in recent months has been at-least-somewhat absorbed correctly (null hypothesis, burden of proof, memory fallibility, a few logical fallacies), and I already had learned some things about E.C.R.E.E. here previously. As for government cover-ups, thanks for the recent replies -- I realize you guys don't always have time for long replies of things you've already covered many times, but I couldn't find any good back-and-forths in the old Rramjet stuff, so, if it's really easy for someone to do, maybe I could get linked to a good spot, or maybe there's some easy search way that I don't know about. If not, I'll eventually find a way to plod thorough all of it.

And for the future here, I officially vow to abandon my indecipherable-writing style, learn the multi-quote function, and use smiley-faces whenever I'm not being serious...

 

[Archer17]

...As for government cover-ups, thanks for the recent replies -- I realize you guys don't always have time for long replies of things you've already covered many times, but I couldn't find any good back-and-forths in the old Rramjet stuff, so, if it's really easy for someone to do, maybe I could get linked to a good spot, or maybe there's some easy search way that I don't know about. If not, I'll eventually find a way to plod thorough all of it.

What are you looking for? I guarantee that no viable mechanism has ever been proposed by those that use 'cover-ups' as a crutch to evade the burden of evidence for how such a pervasive suppression could work. The geopolitical realities aside, the global PTB would have to assign their MIB to "sanitize" practically everyone out there that is a threat to look up - from astronomers, pilots, meteorologists, on down to Joe Sixpack and his backyard telescope. That's a lot of MIB. That's also a problem for those Fox Mulder's out there who want you to believe they, and only they, can penetrate this global cabal and get enough info to sell books and get away with it. Ask them for evidence though and they have that cover-up crutch to lean on. Then there's the "aliens" to consider. They'd have to play along as well. Sound credible to you? I hope not.

 

[GeeMack]

What are you looking for? I guarantee that no viable mechanism has ever been proposed by those that use 'cover-ups' as a crutch to evade the burden of evidence for how such a pervasive suppression could work. The geopolitical realities aside, the global PTB would have to assign their MIB to "sanitize" practically everyone out there that is a threat to look up - from astronomers, pilots, meteorologists, on down to Joe Sixpack and his backyard telescope.

You forgot bird watchers, millions of them always watching the sky. When they go to the grocery store, they look up. When they take the garbage cans out to the street, they look up. They drive hundreds of miles from home for the exclusive purpose of looking up. They skip meals and turn down invitations and spend lots of money on books, binoculars, gas, and motel rooms just so they can do more looking up. They take cameras with them, good cameras, really good cameras. Sometimes they go alone, but often they gather in vary large groups in order to verify what each other is seeing while they're looking up.

And they are highly trained observers. Many birdwatchers are so well practiced that they can discern a White Throated Sparrow from a White Crowned Sparrow (nearly identical birds not much larger than a chicken egg) from a couple hundred yards away. Some are so skilled at observing detail that a Golden Eagle, juvenile Bald Eagle, and a Turkey Vulture can be visually sorted from each other over a half mile in the sky.

So okay, there are occasionally mysterious black Cadillacs cruising the parking lot at the nature center on Audubon Society meeting nights, but that doesn't... hey... wait just a minute. Now I'm beginning to understand!

 

[Marduk]

What are you looking for? I guarantee that no viable mechanism has ever been proposed by those that use 'cover-ups' as a crutch to evade the burden of evidence for how such a pervasive suppression could work. The geopolitical realities aside, the global PTB would have to assign their MIB to "sanitize" practically everyone out there that is a threat to look up - from astronomers, pilots, meteorologists, on down to Joe Sixpack and his backyard telescope. That's a lot of MIB. That's also a problem for those Fox Mulder's out there who want you to believe they, and only they, can penetrate this global cabal and get enough info to sell books and get away with it. Ask them for evidence though and they have that cover-up crutch to lean on. Then there's the "aliens" to consider. They'd have to play along as well. Sound credible to you? I hope not.

also, think about the witness reaction, someone you don't know has come to your home and threatened you, if that was me they'd need a black ambulance too, hey maybe thats why some are described as having no visible teeth and odd shaped noses,

 

[Archer17]

also, think about the witness reaction, someone you don't know has come to your home and threatened you, if that was me they'd need a black ambulance too, hey maybe thats why some are described as having no visible teeth and odd shaped noses,

Remind me not to trick or treat at your house dressed as a MIB.