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We Now Know When Jesus Returns

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Resistible said:
There are about 15 original papyrus still surviving from the 2nd century. Nobody else has this in antiquity.
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This is also false, we have 115 fragments of Heraclitus' writing alone, not to mention other Ancient Greek Philosophers.
 
Flea2143 said:
This is also false, we have 115 fragments of Heraclitus' writing alone, not to mention other Ancient Greek Philosophers.
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That centuries later and perhaps one source. Nobody has still surviving papyrus so close to their deaths as for Jesus.
 
Hi Resistable, I'm late to this thread, so I apologise if you've answered this already, but: What is Jesus going to do exactly when he comes back and: Do you see yourself as amongst the saved being taken up to heaven?
 
Brainache said:
Hi Resistable, I'm late to this thread, so I apologise if you've answered this already, but: What is Jesus going to do exactly when he comes back and: Do you see yourself as amongst the saved being taken up to heaven?
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First He is going to destroy the Antichrist and False Prophet by throwing them into Hell, then He is going to put Satan into the pit for 1000 years. With His words He is going to stop the nations from fighting and destroy the wicked nations and all those who took the implant under their skin to buy and sell. Then He is going to reign in the 3rd Temple over the nations with His overcomers, those believers who overcometh in Him.
 
Resistible said:
This proves they knew and interacted with Jesus for they said so and people don't willingly die for what they know is a lie.
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Really? Oddly enough, I can think of scenarios where people would die in the name of causes that they know are a lie. A number of them.


Resistible said:
The logic stands. If you want to claim an infinite regress of cause and effects then that is an eternity of the past in which you would have had an eternity to come into being before now, yet here you are.
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The logic fails, when dealt with theoretically. If there was an infinite amount of time previously, how can you say that I, or at least something so like me as to be indistinguishable, could not have existed? That I exist now has *no* bearing, at all, on whether "I" could have existed before. Nor would I likely have any reasonable way of knowing whether I existed before, so it's pointless to try to argue along that line, anyways. It sounds like you're trying to say that I can't exist otherwise because I exist now, therefore, you must be right. Strangely enough, that concepts of past lives, multiple lives, reincarnation, and so on exist, alone, means that your base is not theoretically necessary as a base assumption, by the reasoning that you put forth.

Again, though, you still haven't remotely justified your questionable bases or demonstrated that your bases mean that your conclusion is logically true.
 
bikerdruid said:
dude...you are going to have to start providing some evidence.
there are scholars here.
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"Every document apparently ancient coming from the proper repository or custody and bearing on its face no evident marks of forgery, the law presumes to be genuine and devolves on the opposing party the burden of proving it to be otherwise."

"This ancient document, the Scripture, has come from the proper repository, that is, it is has been in the hands of the persons of the Church for 2000 years almost and it bears on its face no evident marks of forgery, and therefore the law presumes it to be genuine, and those who would presume otherwise upon them devolves the responsibility of proving it to be false. We don't have to prove it to be true. They have to prove it to be false. That's what the law says."

(Simon Greenleaf, The Testimony of the Evangelists: The Gospels Examined for the Rules of Evidence)

"It was IMPOSSIBLE that the apostles could have persisted in affirming the truths they had narrated, had not JESUS CHRIST ACTUALLY RISEN FROM THE DEAD, . . ."

(Simon Greenleaf, An Examination of the Testimony of the Four Evangelists by the Rules of Evidence Administered in the Courts of Justice, p.29.)
 
Resistible said:
This proves they knew and interacted with Jesus for they said so and people don't willingly die for what they know is a lie.
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They can die for what they think is true, without it being true, or even good. People died to establish the Nazi regime. That makes Nazism true? All religions have martyrs. All true?

Anyway, apart from uncertain (to say the least) Church tradition, we have no idea how the apostles died, or even if they ever lived, for that matter. And if you think the gospels were written by eye witnesses, how do you account for the ludicrous discrepancies in their accounts of the same alleged events?

For example, was Jesus born during the reign of Herod, per Matthew, or at the time of the Census, per Luke? Herod died in 4 BC, and the Census was conducted in 6 AD.
 
Aridas said:
reincarnation,
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The you that you are now would have happened already so infinite regress is impossible. And something can't come from nothing, so nature needs a cause outside of itself, outside of time and space, being uncreated. This is whom we call God.
 
Resistible said:
First He is going to destroy the Antichrist and False Prophet by throwing them into Hell, then He is going to put Satan into the pit for 1000 years. With His words He is going to stop the nations from fighting and destroy the wicked nations and all those who took the implant under their skin to buy and sell. Then He is going to reign in the 3rd Temple over the nations with His overcomers, those believers who overcometh in Him.
Click to expand...

What does it mean to "overcometh in Him"?
 
Resistible said:
"Every document apparently ancient coming from the proper repository or custody and bearing on its face no evident marks of forgery, the law presumes to be genuine and devolves on the opposing party the burden of proving it to be otherwise."

"This ancient document, the Scripture, has come from the proper repository, that is, it is has been in the hands of the persons of the Church for 2000 years almost and it bears on its face no evident marks of forgery, and therefore the law presumes it to be genuine, and those who would presume otherwise upon them devolves the responsibility of proving it to be false. We don't have to prove it to be true. They have to prove it to be false. That's what the law says."

(Simon Greenleaf, The Testimony of the Evangelists: The Gospels Examined for the Rules of Evidence)

"It was IMPOSSIBLE that the apostles could have persisted in affirming the truths they had narrated, had not JESUS CHRIST ACTUALLY RISEN FROM THE DEAD, . . ."

(Simon Greenleaf, An Examination of the Testimony of the Four Evangelists by the Rules of Evidence Administered in the Courts of Justice, p.29.)
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i'm afraid that you are going to have to do better than that.
are you related to doc by any chance?
 
Craig B said:
They can die for what they think is true,
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But they didn't lie. They truly believed they saw Jesus alive from the dead in various group settings. Since group hallucinations are impossible then Jesus rose from the dead proving He is God.
 
Resistible said:
But they didn't lie. They truly believed they saw Jesus alive from the dead in various group settings. Since group hallucinations are impossible then Jesus rose from the dead proving He is God.
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What makes you think group hallucinations are impossible?(I'd say improbable, not impossible) Also, which account of the resurrection is correct?
 
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