Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[NewtonTrino]

Wow that statement analysis stuff is a bunch of garbage. What quackery.

 

[RandyN]

The Dave Letterman stuff is actually funny.

Unlike the Yummi stuff which is Mignini like in its depth and logic. He's still arguing about an article 90210 thing when there is no chance in hell Italy will ever get another shot at Amanda. Better for Yummi to start working on a plan to keep the criminally insane man Mignini out of prison. This POS needs prosecuted and locked away himself. This fat faced Jabba the Hut witch hunter needs a jail cell right next to Guede who he obviously holds in high esteem. The two evil ones in this story...Guede for killing Meredith and Mignini for allowing the known burglar and drug dealer the freedom to be available to kill and rape on 1 Nov 2007.

This true story wont stay hidden forever.. Mignini and his Flying Idiots will one day pay for allowing Meredith to be killed by this Guede. Who allows freedom to a man caught dead nuts robbing a school, in possession of items stolen in other crimes and with a KNIFE>>>ding ding Yummi? Mignini and the Flying Idiots,,,thats who.

Think you can keep that hidden forever? Keep yapping about useless articles of Italys FU criminal justice system...(btw judged worst of every other country according to the European Court Of Human Rights)lol...you are worse then Russia...far worse... and your little dog and pony show revealed that to the whole world.

Pig is the main food of Perugia... always has been. It seems pig is the qualification for Perugia prosecutors too.

BTW ...watch out for those Masons...one might sneak up behind you in Girmana and go boo!

I’m outta here folks...I'll be glad to join a new thread that works to reveal the truth of this case to the world about the corrupt police and prosecutor in this case. An investigation needs opened and some Italian heads need to roll.

The Mods always stated here to address the post and not the poster...and I have abided by that...except for today ....Id just like to say publicly that Yummi...you are a moron!!! Ta dump…two fingers up yours!

 

[Draca]

Marriott is starting the speeches off hehehe

lol, I thought of PMF flipping out immediately!

Hey, he deserved to be there, afterall it was his Worldwide PR Supertanker thank sprang her from the clinker. hehehehe

 

[truethat]

As far as I have heard it took her a long time to die. But I'm just reading what is posted online. I could be wrong but I've always heard it was an agonizing death.

 

[Draca]

These imbeciles won't let go that easily - I see the Daily Fail here in the UK can't help themselves - here are a few excerpts from their 'article' just 'published':


''The Kerchers have largely maintained a dignified silence since the murder, while the Knox family have deployed every resource at their disposal, including an expensive PR campaign...''.

''....Waiting for her were friends and supporters who have waged a relentless PR campaign on her behalf.''

''Some observers have speculated their positive portrayal of a young woman initially attacked as a cold-hearted party girl influenced the previously hostile Italian media. This in turn may have been the deciding factor in the appeal jury’s decision.''

''...The pro-Knox campaign was boosted by a sympathetic U.S. media whose coverage of the case has always largely ignored Meredith Kercher’s tragedy, played up the unfairness of Italian justice and played down any evidence that showed Knox in a bad light.''

''The American media has greeted her release from the ‘far-fetched’ conviction with the most dramatic language. Some commentators even compared her treatment to the notorious Salem witch trials of 1692, saying her looks and seductiveness were twisted into a ‘villainous cartoon character’.''


Unbelievably trashy article.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-Meredith-Kerchers-family-plead-justice.html

Reverse discrimination. Where is the mention of the massive guilt campaign by the prosecution and UK tabloids? I think both the Italian govt and Fleet Street have deeper pocket than Amanda and Raffaele's families!

I was surprised to hear Lyle Kercher mention the pr campaign, really was. If anything the media surrounding the original trial was way more biased and influential than the appeal. How dare these pr people keep bring up incompetent and absent forensics? I would say that is a bit different than saying Amanda was a literal witch, man eater, slut, FOXY KNOXY. Hilarious that Mignini is now playing the victim and saying a vicious pr campaign was waged against HIM. wowsa.

 

[pipelineaudio]

Yeah that statement analysis stuff was good for a few laughs upthread somewhere (not worth it to find where). What total quackery!

What do you make of it?

Considering the circumstances around that note, I gotta question the point of analyzing it in the first place

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

They're going to be granted their privacy. Just after their (paid) appearances on Nancy Grace, The View, 60 Minutes, TMZ, The Colbert Report, Sesame Street, etc..etc...etc....

You don't know this.

It was the sister, not Amanda that asked for privacy.

And so what? Why shouldn't Knox give the media access to her story? Either she will or she won't, but I see nothing wrong with either choice.

 

[Grinder]

Reverse discrimination. Where is the mention of the massive guilt campaign by the prosecution and UK tabloids? I think both the Italian govt and Fleet Street have deeper pocket than Amanda and Raffaele's families!

I was surprised to hear Lyle Kercher mention the pr campaign, really was. If anything the media surrounding the original trial was way more biased and influential than the appeal. How dare these pr people keep bring up incompetent and absent forensics? I would say that is a bit different than saying Amanda was a literal witch, man eater, slut, FOXY KNOXY. Hilarious that Mignini is now playing the victim and saying a vicious pr campaign was waged against HIM. wowsa.

Hear, hear!

Google "Foxy Knoxy" get 467,000 hits - they had to do something.

 

[Dan O.]

As far as I have heard it took her a long time to die. But I'm just reading what is posted online. I could be wrong but I've always heard it was an agonizing death.

If you look at this news report which makes reference to the coroners report, he is specifying a time window between 10 pm and midnight (a window of 2 hours) and then deduces from the injuries that the wounds were inflicted between 9:30 and 11:30 pm saying that death occurred in 30 minutes; a relatively slow and agonizing death.

 

[Minadin]

I wouldn't be if I hadn't been so thoroughly trashed for my position in the OP. Vindicated is a closer description than smug.

In the very first thread, a couple of years ago, now, I was very skeptical of your position on this case. In fact, I thought it more likely that you were wrong, than that you were right.

As the appeals case progressed and more evidence and facts were available, I changed my mind. At first, I suspected that there was, at least, a reasonable amount of doubt. The more I read, the further I was convinced.

The big turning point, though, to me, was the huge amount of physical evidence against Guede, which was not a big story in the first trial. He was a footnote then, if he was ever mentioned, and he still seems to be in many accounts. Some people still seem to think that if it wasn't Knox (and Sollecito) that the murder remains unsolved. But there is just a giant mountain of DNA and other physical evidence against him, that connect him to the murder. So much so that not even the Perugia Policie could screw it up.

After investigating that, I became convinced that these two weren't just not guilty, they were innocent. Which means I was wrong at the beginning, but at least I don't have to continue to be wrong. That's Skepticism, for you.

 

[Dougm]

I hope Rudy Guede asks to have his case reopened, so they can convict him this time (with or without the DNA), and give him the sentence he truly deserves!

 

[corplinx]

I have been following this case from the beginning in utter horror at what was unfolding.

When white people read about mob justice in Africa, they just say "tisk, backwards continent". When they read about people being tried for witchcraft of promiscuity in Africa, they just say "tisk, backwards continent."

Then they see the Amanda Knox situation and see a white country. A renaissance country. A seat of civilization. And they assume "there must be something there....". They have no idea that when it comes to criminal justice, Italy has more in common with a third world country where witchcraft and promiscuity are considered seriously.

My name is corplinx and I came out of retirement that Amanda Knox is free but the average person won't understand why this is so important until George (ech) Clooney makes his movie about Douglas Preston's own witchhunt experience in Italy.

 

[Minadin]

I hope Rudy Guede asks to have his case reopened, so they can convict him this time (with or without the DNA), and give him the sentence he truly deserves!

I thought they didn't have that sentence in Italy?

 

[HumanityBlues]

Oh man am I gonna miss PMF. Poster "Tara" :

"If she is innocent, isn't this what she should do first, before any books or movies; convince the Nancy Grace's, Bill O'Reilly's, Ann Coulter's and millions of others around the globe?".

Yes, that is exactly what someone who is innocent would do----try to convince Nancy Grace, Bill O'reilly and Ann Coulter that they are innocent. THAT is the way to prove it. Go on and try to convince the dumbest anchors on television that you are innocent.

 

[Quinn]

Short-time reader, first time poster to any Amanda Knox thread. I didn't pay much attention to the case at all up until a couple weeks ago, at which point even a cursory survey of the available evidence made obvious what a massive railroad job it had been from the beginning.

My first reaction was that I couldn't believe the Italian judicial system could be that backward and incompetent. Then I recalled my own (admittedly limited) experiences in Italy, and how I left with the distinct impression that while the country and its citizens had a great many wonderful things to recommend them, an ability to actually get stuff done in an obvious, straightforward, competent, not-astonishingly-insane way was conspicuously not among them. And suddenly, it didn't seem unbelievable at all.

So I'm happy that justice and reason have won out, and that Amanda and Raffaele can get on with their lives. And if the scrutiny of nonstop media attention on the case helped bring about that outcome, I'm all for it.

Oh, and for those who, remarkably, still seem to be holding out hope that the case could be appealed by the prosecution, all I can say is, get real. Given the way this case has shaken out, not to mention the realities of international politics, nothing short of a full-scale capture mission by the Italian military will ever get her back there for another trial. Get over it.

 

[bolint]

It was not for me, but I'm also interested:

to cases of acquittal "per non avere commesso il fatto" linked to art. 530 paragraph 2.
(...)
"Carlo Maria Maggi, Delfo Zorzi, Maurizio Tramonte, Francesco Delfino e Pino Rauti «per non aver commesso il fatto, visto l’articolo 530 secondo comma per i reati a loro iscritti, capo a e d"

If you are not content I can address you to more literature.

The problem is that the judge in the Perugia case did not explicitly say which paragraph was used.
So to resolve this a case is needed in which the judge does not mention the paragraph and still means Para 2.

But I don't think that in a sentence this is possible.
While I could accept that Para 1 is the default (i.e. it is implied if no Para is mentioned), I don't believe that Para 2 could be such default interpretation.

Whatever I think, as I see, the Italian newspapers consider it automatically Para 1, "formula piena".

 

[bolint]

IOh, and for those who, remarkably, still seem to be holding out hope that the case could be appealed by the prosecution, all I can say is, get real.

I don't see why it is so remarkable.

It will be appealed. It depends only on the prosecutors and they both said they would appeal.

It is another question if the appeal succeeds.

But I really don't see how they do not appeal it.

 

[komponisto]

Well, it does make a difference (both legally and morally) whether Hellmann's court acquitted Knox/Sollecito based purely on reasonable doubt (which leaves room for interpretation that they are murderers who got away with it owing to insufficient proof), or whether they were acquitted because the court concluded that they did not actually commit the murder (and the associated crimes). What happened yesterday was the latter, but some people want to pretend that it was the former.

But you're right, it's of only minor consequence in the bigger picture. Anyhow, it appears to now be 3am here and I have a 10.30am meeting, so I think I had better hit the hay.

As reluctant as I am to side with Machiavelli over LJ, I'm afraid I have to agree that the mere use of the formula "for not having committed the act" in the announcement of the verdict does not indicate whether the acquittal is under 530.1 or 530.2. This will be specified only in the motivation document (since no mention was made in the announcement) .

To think that the above-mentioned formula distinguishes between 530.1 and 530.2 is a category error. According to my understanding, there are two independent "axes" of classification for acquittal verdicts. On the horizontal axis (let's say), you have the categories "For not having committed the act" (i.e. someone else did it), "Because the act does not exist" (e.g. if the victim turned out to be still alive), "Because the act does not constitute a crime" (e.g. perhaps if they killed the victim in self-defense), etc. Then, separately, on the vertical axis, you have 530.1 (finding of innocence) and 530.2 (insufficiency or contradictoriness of evidence of guilt). The wording of the announcement only served to mark place of the ruling on the horizontal axis, without saying anything about the vertical. The announcement of "For not having committed the act" meant that whatever reasonable doubt the court had (regardless of whether or not it was of a sufficient level to justify a 530.1 finding) had to do with whether Knox and Sollecito were responsible for Meredith's murder as opposed to someone else, and not with e.g. whether Meredith was murdered in the first place, or whether she was killed with homicidal intent.

In fact, my suspicion is that the upholding of the Lumumba slander charge is a signal that this will turn out to be a 530.2 acquittal.

 

[DrDave]

Why is everyone claiming her innocence still? She got 3 years, funny definition of innocent.

 

[lionking]

Why is everyone claiming her innocence still? She got 3 years, funny definition of innocent.

There's also the ridiculous theory that she will be compensated for wrongful imprisonment. Nah, she will have to get by with the millions she will get on the talk circuit.