Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

Status
Not open for further replies.
Micromegas said:
I get it, she wasn't guilty. Hooray, justice is served. But the notion that it was insane to be skeptical of her innocence is a bit much.
Click to expand...

I allowed for Amanda and Raffaele's possible culpability up until the C&V report was released. I thought there was sufficient reasonable doubt since before the end of the first trial, but I was not absolutely convinced of the pair's innocence. However, given the sum-total of revelations during the appeal, I believe any notion of multiple attackers -- particularly any notion that involves Amanda and Raffaele -- has begun to take on the air of a conspiracy theory. It shouldn't suprise anyone here if over the coming weeks and months people advocating this line of belief are treated similarly to the kind of people who talk about "controlled detonations."
 
Justinian2 said:
BA0049 is scheduled to arrive at: 17:12 Local time Tuesday 04 Oct 2011. It is a few minutes late.

Guede wants a new trial. That's a riot.

The Kerchers are not happy that only one person killed their daughter. Why? Is it too ordinary to be the first victim of a serial killer type? Or are they disappointed that the killer is black.

The Supreme Court said that multiple killers were involved, therefore everything about the conviction is incorrect? Seems to me the SC put their collective feet in their mouth.
Click to expand...
I agree. It was a tragic death at Guede's hands, and there is no need of Knox and Sollecito to make the victim more martyr-like. But this idea of a 3 on 1 attack was put in their minds back in 2007. Now, thanks to the Supreme Court ruling Guede did not act alone - logic says he did in fact act alone - the Kerchers are ready to look for two more suspects. They will never find them, because they never existed. What a mess. The Kerchers have been exploited by Mignini and Maresca.
 
Kaosium said:
As I understand it, Costagliola would be the one to make an appeal, not Mignini, thus I suspect it may never happen, so the murder charge is indeed history. However there's the calunnia against Patrick, the one brought by the police as well as the two cases against both Amanda and Raffaele's family.

Yummi at PMF might be right, this could easily take years more. The joys of Italian jurisprudence.
Click to expand...


I think you're correct: Costagliola is the one who appeals, as he was the lead prosecutor in the appeal trial. And let's just say that he doesn't appear to have shown a large appetite for accommodating the Mignini/Comodi madcap routine up to now.

One ubiquitous pro-guilt refrain at the moment is along these lines: "Let's just wait until the Hellmann motivations report is published before going any further". But in fact the very nature of yesterday's acquittals (specifically the fact that they were under 530.1) already tells us pretty much exactly how the motivations report will read, as regards the murder if not perhaps the Lumumba slander issue.

But regarding the murder, it is clear even now that Hellmann's report will say a number of things: it will throw out the knife and bra clasp unconditionally; it will criticise the other forensic evidence (particularly its method of collection) to the extent that it is all deemed unreliable; it will reject the prosecution claim that the partial print on the bathmat is Sollecito's (and may well go so far as to give the opinion that it is Guede's); it will categorically reject the testimony of Quintavalle, Capezzali and Antonella as unreliable; it will obviously totally reject Curatolo's testimony; it will conclude that the break-in was real (and will likely state that it was Guede who broke in); it will very likely state that ToD was some time between 9.00pm and 9.30pm; it will very likely state that the 9.58pm-10.00pm phone activity on Meredith's UK phone was the action of the killer fiddling with the handset (and not Meredith idly playing on her phone, as per Massei's fiction); and it will state that the 10.13pm GPRS call was probably received and cancelled while the phone was in the killer's hands on the way round the outside of the city wall.
 
Kaosium said:
Which is something that none of the Kerchers would want to face, as their own lawyer demurred on doing his job and seeing to it that Rudy received the maximum possible sentence to instead go after Raffaele and Amanda. Maresca has been a total disaster for the Kerchers.
Click to expand...

Maresca could have helped see to it that Rudy was in jail for 30 years. Instead, he and the prosecution acceded to what resulted in a 16 year sentence. The legacy of Maresca, therefore, is 14 years of Rudy not being in jail, and the Kercher's misplaced belief that Meredith was killed by multiple attackers.
 
Diocletus said:
Maresca could have helped see to it that Rudy was in jail for 30 years. Instead, he and the prosecution acceded to what resulted in a 16 year sentence. The legacy of Maresca, therefore, is 14 years of Rudy not being in jail, and the Kercher's misplaced belief that Meredith was killed by multiple attackers.
Click to expand...
If only they would see the light, and sue him!

ETA: There is some sign that this may be in the offing. I found it interesting that the Kerchers have basically put forth to the press: OK, Knox and Sollecito did not do it; yet we were told by the Supreme Court that Guede acted with others; now let us begin the arduous task of finding these others. They are not stupid people, and between the lines, I can hear them saying, "Were there ever in fact any others?"
 
Last edited:
smkovalinksy said:
I agree. It was a tragic death at Guede's hands, and there is no need of Knox and Sollecito to make the victim more martyr-like. But this idea of a 3 on 1 attack was put in their minds back in 2007. Now, thanks to the Supreme Court ruling Guede did not act alone - logic says he did in fact act alone - the Kerchers are ready to look for two more suspects. They will never find them, because they never existed. What a mess. The Kerchers have been exploited by Mignini and Maresca.
Click to expand...


I think it is actually very likely that Hellmann's report will say that in its view Meredith Kercher was killed by just one person (and may or may not go on to explicitly name that person as Guede). Once that verdict gets validated and affirmed by the Supreme Court (as I am confident that it will), then it will directly contradict the rulings in Guede's court process at every level. That is constitutionally fine (even though it instinctively feels wrong).

And of the two rulings, one would then want to wonder which of them is closer to the truth. As we discussed earlier today, Guede's trials were very unusual in that both sides of the case - prosecutors and defence - actually wanted the court to find that there were multiple assailants. So the evidence in this area was clearly never adequately tested. However, it was properly tested in the trials of Knox and Sollecito, since the defence argued that there was no evidence of a group killing. And when this evidence was testing, it was found wanting.

Therefore, I'd strongly argue that the rational conclusion to reach is that Hellmann's court is far more likely to be closer to the truth in regard to the number of assailants than were the courts in Guede's trial. And I think that Hellmann's court will conclude that there was only one killer. If that is the case, I hope that the Hellmann Report will in itself help the Kerchers to understand what really happened to Meredith, and who really was responsible for her murder.
 
LondonJohn said:
I think it is actually very likely that Hellmann's report will say that in its view Meredith Kercher was killed by just one person (and may or may not go on to explicitly name that person as Guede). Once that verdict gets validated and affirmed by the Supreme Court (as I am confident that it will), then it will directly contradict the rulings in Guede's court process at every level. That is constitutionally fine (even though it instinctively feels wrong).

And of the two rulings, one would then want to wonder which of them is closer to the truth. As we discussed earlier today, Guede's trials were very unusual in that both sides of the case - prosecutors and defence - actually wanted the court to find that there were multiple assailants. So the evidence in this area was clearly never adequately tested. However, it was properly tested in the trials of Knox and Sollecito, since the defence argued that there was no evidence of a group killing. And when this evidence was testing, it was found wanting.

Therefore, I'd strongly argue that the rational conclusion to reach is that Hellmann's court is far more likely to be closer to the truth in regard to the number of assailants than were the courts in Guede's trial. And I think that Hellmann's court will conclude that there was only one killer. If that is the case, I hope that the Hellmann Report will in itself help the Kerchers to understand what really happened to Meredith, and who really was responsible for her murder.
Click to expand...
Bravo, well said - and this will ultimately lead the Kerchers to say, "Maresca has been weighed in the balance, and found wanting. Let us sue him."
 
First of all RIP Meredith. By all accounts she really was one of the good ones.

I would just like to say a quick hello and thanks to everyone that questioned the original verdict with reason and logic. Its my first post here, although not exactly:


Originally posted by Ergon
- All "Rolfe" now has to do is deny he's "niktendo" or "FormerFOA" then, no? -
Click to expand...

How about if I deny being Rolfe?

Its a bit late to go over the evidence any more as they've finally let the kids go, however it would be nice to read peoples thoughts about the polizia motivations behind this case and the tragic/disgraceful route it has taken?

Did they purse AK n RS because they thought they were guilty? Or did they do it despite knowing they were innocent just to save face? Or any other reason?
 
PS this is my first (well 2nd) post here as I have been banned from both TJMK after 1 (admittedly rambling) post and then PMF after only a couple more. I assume thats happened to everyone else?
 
Have to say that I am pleased to see that the Kerchers (well, maybe not John) apparently appear to be giving a little more careful consideration of the events that have taken place. I hope I haven't got the wrong impression about that.

From Lyle's ''freed on a technicality'' and John's ''crazy'' and ''ludicrous'' which were out of order IMHO, the family seem to be now pondering the case with a bit more nous instead of blindly believing every word their lawyer and the prosecution have told them thus far. I read earlier this evening (forgot where) that they were asking if AK/RS were not the two accomplices of Rudy, WHO did help him and they also seemed to be wanting the investigating teams (or at least the prosecution team) to shed a little more light on this.
 
supporting Perugia Shock

I made a donation today to Perugia Shock. Frank Sfarzo has been an invaluable source of information.
 
niktendo said:
First of all RIP Meredith. By all accounts she really was one of the good ones.

I would just like to say a quick hello and thanks to everyone that questioned the original verdict with reason and logic. Its my first post here, although not exactly:




How about if I deny being Rolfe?

Its a bit late to go over the evidence any more as they've finally let the kids go, however it would be nice to read peoples thoughts about the polizia motivations behind this case and the tragic/disgraceful route it has taken?

Did they purse AK n RS because they thought they were guilty? Or did they do it despite knowing they were innocent just to save face? Or any other reason?
Click to expand...

This has really gotten ridiculous. Is there anyone here that PMF has correctly assumed to be someone posting in disguise? Rose, Bruce, John, Kevin... all assumed to be other people. Sheesh.
 
halides1 said:
I made a donation today to Perugia Shock. Frank Sfarzo has been an invaluable source of information.
Click to expand...


Hear Hear!

I made a donation (small but still) to him around the time he was being hassled by Mignini and his 'henchmen'.

Frank fully deserves recognition and plaudits.
 
From Barbie Neadeau's live "chat", a couple of her comments:

There are mixed genetic traces in spots of blood in which Amanda's traces are higher than Meredith's. That implies mixed blood according to the dozens of forensics experts I've interviewed about this. Who have you interviewed?
Click to expand...

Dozens, really? Cite?

Mops, buckets, rocks, receipts are all circumstantial evidence, and it seems very much so to this appellate panel. The first court considered these elements crucial. The second court clearly did not.
Click to expand...

LOL. This is a person who claimed the bleach receipt in her book, IIRC.

ETA link

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...al-verdict-on-murder-of-meredith-kercher.html
 
Last edited:
Scorpion NITE said:
Have to say that I am pleased to see that the Kerchers (well, maybe not John) apparently appear to be giving a little more careful consideration of the events that have taken place. I hope I haven't got the wrong impression about that.

From Lyle's ''freed on a technicality'' and John's ''crazy'' and ''ludicrous'' which were out of order IMHO, the family seem to be now pondering the case with a bit more nous instead of blindly believing every word their lawyer and the prosecution have told them thus far. I read earlier this evening (forgot where) that they were asking if AK/RS were not the two accomplices of Rudy, WHO did help him and they also seemed to be wanting the investigating teams (or at least the prosecution team) to shed a little more light on this.
Click to expand...


Alas, I think that they have been asking this particular question because - to them - it begs a particular answer: nobody else helped Guede, and the "two accomplices" therefore had to have been Knox and Sollecito. In other words, I think that this question is a carefully guarded way for the family to show that they still believe that Knox and Sollecito participated in Meredith's murder.

I sincerely think that the Kerchers should refrain from making any more comments until the Hellmann sentencing report comes out. I realise that they will very possibly feel they want to put their opinions out into the media when Knox (in particular) is doing the inevitable media circuit. but I think that they would best serve their own interests and dignity by remaining silent and refusing any requests for comments/interviews. Of course, they are free to do whatever they like, as is their prerogative. But I think the time has now come for quiet reflection and a slow consideration of everything that's happened over the past few days. I certainly hope someone is advising them to do just this: but if that slimeball Maresca is still working for them, I doubt he'll be counselling any such restraint or invisibility. Rat.
 
LondonJohn said:
Alas, I think that they have been asking this particular question because - to them - it begs a particular answer: nobody else helped Guede, and the "two accomplices" therefore had to have been Knox and Sollecito. In other words, I think that this question is a carefully guarded way for the family to show that they still believe that Knox and Sollecito participated in Meredith's murder.

I sincerely think that the Kerchers should refrain from making any more comments until the Hellmann sentencing report comes out. I realise that they will very possibly feel they want to put their opinions out into the media when Knox (in particular) is doing the inevitable media circuit. but I think that they would best serve their own interests and dignity by remaining silent and refusing any requests for comments/interviews. Of course, they are free to do whatever they like, as is their prerogative. But I think the time has now come for quiet reflection and a slow consideration of everything that's happened over the past few days. I certainly hope someone is advising them to do just this: but if that slimeball Maresca is still working for them, I doubt he'll be counselling any such restraint or invisibility. Rat.
Click to expand...


Yeah, I actually felt the same tbh LJ, but the snippet I read left me with a slightly different impression - maybe it was the way it was worded. I do agree that they should take time out to reflect now before continuing to make comments and have said as much over the last couple of days.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom