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Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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In the end, the best part of Hellman's ruling was that immediate release was not based on reasonable doubt--- he was basically saying that the staging, the clean up, the crimes, had not occurred, as charged in the original indictment.
 
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smkovalinksy said:
[
Unfortunately, in the end, I think Guede is the sole culprit, and he has already been convicted and imprisoned.
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I think the data we know of, obviously has Rudy alone.
But I would be open to someone else theory, with working with him.

There's some other mysterious comments-
>Rudy was seen with someone the night of the murder. his friends didnt recognize.
>the dark colored car in the driveway
>Alessandra Formicas testimony fitting the correct time
> a few prisoners-Rudys prison chats
>

Maybe Rudy will slip up and someone can record his talks. being in prison for years leaves a lot of time to talk about the crime?

I noticed John Kercher is a believer of the dual-knife theory, thats too bad.
But understandable. As for the wounds, there have been lone wolf attacks that leave even worse results, so the autopsy alone doesnt prove mulitple attackers.

I understand their confusion, the SC for Rudy says multiple attackers, the Hellman court releases Amanda and Raffaele......leaving again Only Rudy.

Rudy holds the answers still. Amazing really, how do you get the truth from someone like Rudy?
 
Teddy2007 said:
One of Barbie's tweets last night:

BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
#amandaknox leaves capanne prison a free woman. A 14 seat private jet apparently waiting to whisk her away to seattle tomorrow.

The stupidity of this person has no bounds.
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It'll be interesting to see how or if she mentions the commercial flight they took this morning won't it?
 
JREF2010 said:
I think the data we know of, obviously has Rudy alone.
But I would be open to someone else theory, with working with him.

There's some other mysterious comments-
>Rudy was seen with someone the night of the murder. his friends didnt recognize.
>the dark colored car in the driveway
>Alessandra Formicas testimony fitting the correct time
> a few prisoners-Rudys prison chats
>

Maybe Rudy will slip up and someone can record his talks. being in prison for years leaves a lot of time to talk about the crime?

I noticed John Kercher is a believer of the dual-knife theory, thats too bad.
But understandable. As for the wounds, there have been lone wolf attacks that leave even worse results, so the autopsy alone doesnt prove mulitple attackers.

I understand their confusion, the SC for Rudy says multiple attackers, the Hellman court releases Amanda and Raffaele......leaving again Only Rudy.

Rudy holds the answers still. Amazing really, how do you get the truth from someone like Rudy?
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I do not think the truth will be forthcoming from Guede, ever. (Just as it has not been forthcoming from many obviously guilty convicted criminals who hold to innocence for the duration, such as Pamela Smart. )

I think despite these coincidences you mention, the simplest theory, the most logical, is that Kercher lost her life for a silly reason: Guede thought he was burglarizing an empty cottage, with the students all away ; she surprised him, and he did what criminals are wont to do.
 
HumanityBlues said:
It doesn't matter. This case is over.
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You said it. It can be appealed, Mignini can bark his head off, rumors can abound.....but it is over.

Just as in an election, (I am thinking of a local one here some years ago) where doubters are howling for a recount, but the judgment goes against them, must finally let the truth sink in and move on - so will it be with this case. It is finis. The sooner this is accepted, the better.

From a poster on websleuths:

Considering that reasonable doubt was an option it speaks volumes that the jurors (two of whom were judges) rendered their decision as having not committed the crime.
 
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I apologize to the Kerchers for the failings of society:

If society was better able to recognize a person in distress and going south (Guede) then their daughter might be alive.

If society was better able to handle the problems of people with the profile of a serial killer (Guede) before he killed, their daughter might be alive.

Instead, society lets people like Guede go free after they have been caught with stolen items and a knife or knives in their procession.

Instead, society can’t even differentiate between good people and people that kill. Hmm, isn’t this also a characteristic of the Kercher family? Perhaps they have only their own attitude to blame or perhaps they can blame society for their own attitude.

After all, this society thinks that fallacies, punishment and fear are useful. This society believes it is OK for government to be a bully. This society prefers force to logic and fact.

Yes, I apologize to the Kerchers for this crazy society. However, I admonish them to be part of the solution rather than part of the problem.
 
smkovalinksy said:
In the end, the best part of Hellman's ruling was that immediate release was not based on reasonable doubt--- he was basically saying that the staging, the clean up, the crimes, had not occurred, as charged in the original indictment.
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Exactly that is disputed, a hurried conclusion to claim it.
The 530.1 vs. 530.2 question.

It is not known, and it does not follow from what the judge said.
It should be figured out from the Motivations due sometime around New Year's Eve.
 
LondonJohn said:
:D

Sky News has just carried video of the family (but no capture of Amanda) queuing at check-in at Rome Fiumicino airport. It appears to be confirmed that they are flying to LHR to connect to a flight to Seattle.

The irony of course is that a private jet would have been the quickest and easiest way for Knox and her family to have got back to Seattle. There are no direct flights between any airport in Italy and Seattle, and a private jet could have flown direct from Perugia Sant'Egidio airport to Seattle. A flight plan could almost certainly have been filed late last night, and the flight could have taken off before midnight. Had that happened, Knox and her family would have been in Seattle within around four hours from now. Instead, they had to travel from Perugia to Rome, spend a night in Rome, fly to London, then wait for a connection for a flight to Seattle.

And of course when you add everything up (8 x hotels, 8 x flights to London (almost certainly at full fare), 8 x LHR-SEA flights (almost certainly at full fare)), the added irony is that there would probably not have been a big cost differential between that and chartering a private plane for 8 passengers.
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Obviously you don't fly private much. It's a lot more expensive than 8 coach tickets and some hotel rooms.

Not to mention they would need a fairly large one to make the atlantic hop. The smaller cheaper ones would have to take a fairly long route.

Maybe they splurged for first class for Amanda, let's hope so, but I doubt her family is in a position to be renting private jets. Maybe after her book/movie deal but I bet they have a lot of debt to pay off too.

I'm just glad she's coming back to Seattle and isn't stuck in prison.
 
"Rudy holds the answers still. Amazing really, how do you get the truth from someone like Rudy? "

A decent waterboarding would have solved this question log time ago. :)
 
bolint said:
You'll see.

PS.
Also, as a bonus for you, in the Porta a Porta interview linked above Mignini specifically says that it is not known if the acquittal was based on 503.1 or 530.2 :D
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Ahhh I see what you've done here: you've believed Mignini on this one. Here's a clue to help you: Mignini is lying if he says he doesn't know whether it was a 530.1 or 530.2 acquittal. He knows full well that it was a 530.1 acquittal.

Mignini has long since proven himself to have the ability and willingness say or do anything that might have a positive payoff for himself, regardless of its veracity. In this particular instance, he knows for certain that the court acquitted Knox and Sollecito on the 530.1 grounds that they simply didn't commit the crimes they were charged with. But it suits Mignini, for obvious reasons, to pretend that he's not sure whether the acquittals were merely on 530.2 reasonable doubt grounds. A 530.2 acquittal makes it look like Mignini and his cohorts had a good underlying case, which just failed to pass the reasonable doubt hurdle; a 530.1 acquittal makes Mignini and his cohorts look incompetent, vindictive and mendacious.

I hope that helps with your comprehension. An understanding of Mignini's character and motivation is an immensely helpful tool in gaining a wider understanding of what's happened in this case.
 
bolint said:
Exactly that is disputed, a hurried conclusion to claim it.
The 530.1 vs. 530.2 question.

It is not known, and it does not follow from what the judge said.
It should be figured out from the Motivations due sometime around New Year's Eve.
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Well, I do not agree.

Only the self-deluded will cling to this.

The good old judge spoke plainly, on the cases of A, B, C, D, etc. - one of which was simulation of a crime - the alleged clean up and staging - that he could not comply with the request for life prison terms, because in each of those cases, the defendants did not commit the crime. Capice???
 
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Micromegas said:
:rolleyes:

And is coining a derogatory name for people with opinions that differ from yours the best way to demonstrate your rationality?

To play devil's advocate for a moment, I think there were valid reasons to doubt that Knox was as innocent as her supporters claim. This is a woman, after all, who didn't hesitate to implicate an innocent man in this brutal crime. But her supporters make it sound like she couldn't conceivably have done anything differently, or offered a consistent alibi throughout the interrogations and investigations, because the overzealous Italian police virtually forced her to blame Lumumba and change her story whenever she found it necessary.

Does that make her guilty? Of course not. But it doesn't make suspicion of Knox something freakish and inexcusable.

-Mike
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Honestly given how often false confessions occur and given Amanda's life experience and given the fact that police "lost the tapes" I think it's very difficult to hold any of that against her. I do think it makes any suspicion of her freakish and frankly inexcusable. When you look at the facts of the case it's completely and utterly obviously from multiple angles that she wasn't involved in a murder or coverup of any kind.

In other words I disagree with your assessment here. It's too bad true justice won't happen in this case (true justice being the cops at a minimum losing their jobs and mignini in jail for at least 4 years).
 
NewtonTrino said:
Honestly given how often false confessions occur and given Amanda's life experience and given the fact that police "lost the tapes" I think it's very difficult to hold any of that against her. I do think it makes any suspicion of her freakish and frankly inexcusable.
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Oh, well, all right then.

Um, just out of curiosity, when a person blames someone else for a crime, you really consider that a confession?

-Mike
 
Justinian2 said:
I apologize to the Kerchers for the failings of society:

If society was better able to recognize a person in distress and going south (Guede) then their daughter might be alive.

If society was better able to handle the problems of people with the profile of a serial killer (Guede) before he killed, their daughter might be alive.

Instead, society lets people like Guede go free after they have been caught with stolen items and a knife or knives in their procession.

Instead, society can’t even differentiate between good people and people that kill. Hmm, isn’t this also a characteristic of the Kercher family? Perhaps they have only their own attitude to blame or perhaps they can blame society for their own attitude.

After all, this society thinks that fallacies, punishment and fear are useful. This society believes it is OK for government to be a bully. This society prefers force to logic and fact.

Yes, I apologize to the Kerchers for this crazy society. However, I admonish them to be part of the solution rather than part of the problem.
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In addition to this, and not counter to it, there is something to be said for the old-fashioned idea of protecting young girls. Because they are weaker physically than males, and taking into account their status as objects of male sexual desire, when studying abroad:

to house them in safe, campus housing, with alarms on the windows, surveillance cameras, and security guard posts in lobbies, would go a long way in preventing this horrific and senseless situation in which poor Meredith Kercher unnecessarily lost her life.

There could still be plenty of soaking up Perugian charm, nightlife, cafes, etc.
 
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NewtonTrino said:
Obviously you don't fly private much. It's a lot more expensive than 8 coach tickets and some hotel rooms.

Not to mention they would need a fairly large one to make the atlantic hop. The smaller cheaper ones would have to take a fairly long route.

Maybe they splurged for first class for Amanda, let's hope so, but I doubt her family is in a position to be renting private jets. Maybe after her book/movie deal but I bet they have a lot of debt to pay off too.

I'm just glad she's coming back to Seattle and isn't stuck in prison.
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Actually, I do. And a very good friend of mine owns a private charter business. The could probably have hired a 10-seat private charter from Perugia to SeaTac for a one-way cost of something in the region of $30,000-$50,000. The aircraft would almost certainly have had to refuel in Nova Scotia, but a decent plane could have done the total journey in around 10-11 hours.

By contrast, 6 rooms in a reasonable hotel in Rome overnight (assuming some sharing of rooms) would be maybe £1,000. 10 last-minute full-fare flights Rome-LHR would be around $300 each = $3,000 total. 10 last-minute full-fare flights LHR-SEA would be around $1,500 (current BA one-way quote for tomorrow's LHR-SEA flight is £1,050 for the cheapest economy seat) = $15,000 total. So total travel costs for the group would have been around $20,000.

So the answer is yes, of course it's still cheaper to do things via commercial flights and overnight stays in hotels. But it's not an order of magnitude different. And that's also assuming that all the commercial flight sectors are in economy (coach) class. If we are talking about seats in business class (let alone first class), then there is probably a near parity in costs.
 
false confession/accusation

Micromegas said:
Oh, well, all right then.

Um, just out of curiosity, when a person blames someone else for a crime, you really consider that a confession?

-Mike
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Micromegas,

Many false confessions have an element of accusation to them. Think about Karl Fontenot and Tommy Ward, for example. This has come up several times, but I don't have my old comments on this subject handy.
 
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