Occupy Wall Street better defend its identity

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Emperor_Gestahl

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Emperor_Gestahl
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Be careful of special interest groups hijacking the message. That's what happened to the Tea Party leading them to be co-opted into the Fox News GOP. Even if people show up who you agree with on some political issue, ask yourselves if that issue is actually related to what the protest is about. There will be, and probably already are, many factions who want nothing more than to turn the entire movement into a DNC fundraiser. Suddenly it will be about collective bargaining for teachers or something else that doesn't involve a corporation at all, let alone Wall Street. The partisans on both sides will try and expand their trenches such that your movement falls into them. Keep an eye out, don't be the next Tea Party.
 
Right now it has no identity as far as I know. So it'd be real easy for it to be co-opted.
 
It's Marxists meets anarchists meets Ron Paul.

You couldn't get a message or identity out of that if you tried.
 
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Travis said:
Right now it has no identity as far as I know. So it'd be real easy for it to be co-opted.
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I'm not there, so I don't know, but that's what tends to happen with these things. They must agree on a message and stick to it, if they let special interests show up and hijack the thing.. even if they agree with those interests.. it'll become a dissolute and meaningless partisan mob like the Tea Party did.
 
Virus said:
What identity? What message? It's Marxists meets anarchists meets Ron Paul.
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Sounds speculative, got a cite? The media at this point seems to be just guessing / asking random people. Haven't personally read anything about the protests that reminded me of Marx, anarchy or Ron Paul.

(Edit)Well ok I've now seen a few pics showing outright communists there.. Might be a good idea for any of the non-commies to distance themselves from that sort of thing, I mean obviously you can't stop communists from showing up but please don't encourage them.
 
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Virus said:
It's Marxists meets anarchists meets Ron Paul.

You couldn't get a message or identity out of that if you tried.
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Not that you're listening for one. All three of them agree that US government kowtowing to financial interests is out of hand, which is kind of why they started at Wall Street.
 
What identity? It's a collection of every wingnut cause out there, from Ron Paultards to communists to anarchists to anti-Israel to people who like to dress as zombies.

They want more government, less government, more immigration, protectionism, etc etc. They protest corporations even as they organize on Facebook and Twitter and Youtube using laptop computers and smart phones, all fruits of corporations. They rail against oil companies while powering generators with gasoline. They want to end capitalism, while also getting better pay. What entity will pay them absent capitalism I have no idea.

Kids throwing a temper tantrum, basically.
 
Emperor_Gestahl said:
Suddenly it will be about collective bargaining for teachers or something else that doesn't involve a corporation at all, let alone Wall Street. The partisans on both sides will try and expand their trenches such that your movement falls into them. Keep an eye out, don't be the next Tea Party.
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Actually, they could use a few hundred union organizers to help them focus. THe destruction of the working class and small entrepreneurs by the useless faction of the investor class is what got us to the sorry state we are in today. Those people on the street have a lot more in common with a teacher being forced out of the union by Il Duce than they have with the poor sod who just lost all his trust fund in the derivatives market.

That's why the republicons are trying to bust unions now. They are the last effective rallying point for people who get screwed over by slime like the Koch roaches and the Walton larvae.
 
WildCat said:
What identity? It's a collection of every wingnut cause out there, from Ron Paultards to communists to anarchists to anti-Israel to people who like to dress as zombies.

They want more government, less government, more immigration, protectionism, etc etc. They protest corporations even as they organize on Facebook and Twitter and Youtube using laptop computers and smart phones, all fruits of corporations. They rail against oil companies while powering generators with gasoline. They want to end capitalism, while also getting better pay. What entity will pay them absent capitalism I have no idea.

Kids throwing a temper tantrum, basically.
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Yeah, it's basically:

Phase 1: Protest Wall Street
Phase 2: ????
Phase 3: Revolution!

And a prediction of my own: this will have blown over by November 2011 at the earliest.
 
Here are some background links that explain why these protests (is that even the right word?) have been conducted they way they have.

There is a recent interview on the Washington Post website with David Graeber, who was one of the early organizers and is an anthropologist at Goldsmiths, University of London.

The Post has a related primer, and The Nation has what they call a FAQ about Occupy Wall Street.

For you wonky types, a blogger named Mike Konczal (of whom I had never heard before) takes a closer look at the theory behind Occupy Wall Street's approach.

This debate about structure and process has been going on for generations among U.S. social democrats and people farther to their left. For example, these questions came up again during the alter-globalization movements around the millennium. Doug Henwood has a critique of Occupy Wall Street from (it seems to me) the conservative end of that spectrum.
 
Oh c'mon guys! Don't be so cynical.

I mean have you heard some of the great drum circles they've had going on?

Wall Street will likely close it's doors by the end of the week.

/sarcastic orange
 
GreyArea said:
The Post has a related primer, and The Nation has what they call a FAQ about Occupy Wall Street.
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That FAQ is pretty funny.

"
What are the demands of the protesters?

Ugh—the zillion-dollar question. Again, the original Adbusters call asked, “What is our one demand?” Technically, there isn’t one yet....

... to begin with, they opted to make their demand the occupation itself—and the direct democracy taking place there—which in turn may or may not come up with some specific demand. When you think about it, this act is actually a pretty powerful statement against the corruption that Wall Street has come to represent. But since thinking is often too much to ask of the American mass media, the question of demands has turned into a massive PR challenge."

No, actually, when you think about it, you realize that this is a copout to paper over the fact that these people have little to unify them beyond dissatisfaction with mainstream society. But let's pretend that it's the media's fault that we're incoherent.
 
Unless you can walk up to them, ask them "what can Wall Street do to satisfy you?" and get a coherent response beyond "go away" they are going to suffer from being perceived as idealists without a game plan.
 
Heh, I notice the "Free Mumia" yahoos are representing. I guess it's inevitable.
 
Travis said:
Unless you can walk up to them, ask them "what can Wall Street do to satisfy you?" and get a coherent response beyond "go away" they are going to suffer from being perceived as idealists without a game plan.
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ftfy.
 
Virus said:
It's Marxists meets anarchists meets Ron Paul.
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I doubt any of them are so intellectual.

Seriously, it can be quite fun and illuminating to debate such people. This angry PASSION seems to be often mistaken for actual political positions. I usually just ignore it.

I've heard more about these protests now than just a week ago, but most of the coverage is "crazy hippies gather, moving on".
 
WildCat said:
Who will employ the union members when capitalism is ended? Hippie communes?
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Capitalism is permissible in a rational society. The capitalists just have to know what their job is and do it. The dirtbags running the financial sector now have forgotten or don't care that they are supposed to be moving money to places where tangible products are produced.

The world lived quite well without capitalists before and can, for a brief period, do so again, if need be.

The unions are actually capable of running the factories, if it comes to that.

Half the suits have no idea what makes their products work any way.
 
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