Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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What their legal team has been battling against is truth and justice.

Stephanie's claim that ''the evidence is obviously there'' is something that I hope she will reconsider. If the scheduled press conference goes ahead, I also hope that the 'Maresca Effect' is not too obvious and the Kerchers think carefully about what to say. It must be a hugely traumatic time for them at the moment but I hope they are soon able to question their hitherto unwavering confidence in the crooks Mignini and Maresca (Yes, I consider the pair to be crooks) :(
 
According to this source, Amanda skipped town pronto. She'll be spending the night somewhere near Rome. TGcom. Raffale's attorneys say his location is being kept secret. (I think we can assume he's skipped town too.)

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I chuckle at the thought of the media circus dispersing across Umbria and Lazio during the night, to try to track down the Knox/Mellas entourage. I hope they wear themselves to the bone in the attempt, and I hope they fail.

I hope that once Knox and the family get back to Seattle, they have the class and dignity to issue a statement which empathises with the Kercher family over the loss of Meredith, while emphasising that Knox had nothing to do with her murder. I thought that Sollecito's father showed considerable class on the steps of the courtroom tonight, and that Dalla Vedova spoke eloquently and fairly in a BBC interview. I hope that Knox and her family will now find it appropriate to offer condolences and an olive branch to the Kercher family, and I hope that the Kercher family can understand and accept Knox's and Sollecito's positions.
 
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=7638713#post7638713

That was a great photo of Amanda. Told the whole story. I'd have done the same. Don't know how Raffaele walked out without bawling...

I suspect Amanda won't go back to Italy until the appeal to the Supreme Court has ended.

She will appear on a lot of talk shows.

It's been a pleasure talking to you guys. I wonder how those five sites that tossed me for saying the same things discussed in the Appeals trial are thinking. Ok, maybe I don't. They chose to be ignorant and probably still are.
Yes, I thought that picture was a long time coming.....you and I and all are better off without the witchhunters, and PMF is down because they don't want to hear that they were fools. Hellman is the man of the hour.
 
Yes, I thought that picture was a long time coming.....you and I and all are better off without the witchhunters, and PMF is down because they don't want to hear that they were fools. Hellman is the man of the hour.

Frank's collage is really well done:
 

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I hope they give it a little time before they comment more. I know they have a presser scheduled but I think they should cancel. They should build Meredith's scholarship and other positive real memorials to her. Putting the kids in jail, guilty or innocent, isn't a memorial to Meredith.

They should read the motivations, listen to the kids in their interviews, stop communicating with the PGP, if they in fact are, and reevaluate the whole case. If they come to the realization that the kids are innocent, they should publicly say so.

Amanda should make a healthy contribution to the Meredith scholarship once the Kerchers accept her innocence.

Completely agree with all the above. Meredith should be remembered with something positive, not associated with the wrongful conviction of innocent people.
 
YA!!!!
Raffaele and Amanda are free!!!

Sorry to yell really, really loud, guys and gals,
but I've been out in the ocean for the last 8 hours and I have been just dying to find out the details of what the verdict was. No radio, no internet...

And for some reason,
I guess since I had the same butterflies in my stomach this morning as I had when the 1st trial verdict was going to be announced, I was feeling kinda down...

Landing back ashore, I had 1 thing on my mind, what is THE VERDICT?
Instead of reading my main Yahoo webpage, I came straight here, saw a good 10 pages to read from where I last leftoff and just figured that it must be because you all were discussing the fact that Raff and Amanda had their verdicts upheld.

Raff and Amanda are free and outta prison?
Really?
YA!!!
:)

Peace everyone,
RW
 
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To be fair, he does express what seem to be sincere doubts that a guilty verdict from Hellman was justified, citing that he seems to have believed some very dubious witnesses, and ignored C&V.

I don't find it so terribly reprehensible - he hasn't invented anything of real substance in the full article. I agree it's not good, but it's mainly not good because some idiot pressed the button too soon.

Rolfe.

What's bad about it is not knowing what else were complete fabrications.
 
And I'll point out again that in the very unlikely event that the Supreme Court agrees to hear a prosecution appeal against the acquittals (an appeal which, remember, can only be based on points of law and not findings of fact), this appeal will be heard in camera, and Knox and Sollecito will not be required to be present.

And if the Supreme Court does hear an appeal, and decides that the appeal has merit (it's not going to happen, but let's hypothesise for a moment), it cannot "reverse" the acquittals or pronounce Knox/Sollecito guilty in any way. What would happen is that the Supreme Court would refer the case back down to the appeal court, and another appeal trial would be held along the same lines as the Hellmann trial.
 
It's interesting to see the comparisons some of the more rabid Guilters are making between Casey Anthony and Amanda. I read one particularly vile specimen lamenting the fact that Knox now has a 'clear road' to make money from writing a book. Well now, 80% percent of people who responded to a Jacket Copy poll said they were not interested in a book from Casey Anthony. A similar poll there (Los Angeles Times) currently shows less than 12% saying the same thing about Amanda.

Link below if you would like to read it or vote on it:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/jacketcopy/2011/10/amanda-knox-should-she-get-a-book-deal.html
 
Interesting that PMF(org) and TJMK are down at the same time.

And JREF who should be the busiest are coping with the extra load.

I must admit I got a bit misty eyed watching the video of the verdicts.

Thank god they finally (like about two months ago) came to the only correct decision.

I hope that Raff and Amanda make all the profit this miserable experience entitles them to.

And I hope they notice those involved in the evil side of this case.

Very good comment before about a desire to see a crater appear in the vicinity of Ganong and Quenells walletts. And the rest of them of course. Why not just sue, sue, sue and sue. And sue some more. Sure there's book, tv and magaizine deals and the boots on the other foot now, Raff and Amanda have got a True Version Of The Story to sell, but also while they're there.... I'd love to see them turn their attention on our lovely hate website leaders. Your enemies have always laid unquietly, awaiting, really stirring the pot.
And it would be nice to see the Sollecitos get stuck in. It's time to end a few careers.

I noticed LondonJohns comment before about the Supreme Court only adressing technicalies, and I've previously posted that I hope the additional experts review cannot, as Mignini is so, so sure of, be seen as an obvious one and anulled.
I think it's simple for Hellman to take the dark side of the force to the cleaners in the Motivations Report which they have to wait for before filing for a review.

Amazing isn't it ? Even in Perugia justice was served. Well done Hellman. .........

Congratulations Raffael and Amanda. Nothing else was ever going to happen in this trial.
 
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Hehehe I did. But it's clear that to all intents and purposes Dalla Vedova was Knox's lead lawyer. It was he who led closing arguments, it was he who was at Knox's side for the verdicts tonight, and it was he who shepherded the Knox/Mellas family and made the first statements outside the courtroom.

In the grand scheme of things, it's totally irrelevant of course. And it only arose because one particular poster (who's curiously absent tonight) was belligerent and sardonic in his attempts to show that I had "made a mistake". But I'm feeling conciliatory tonight, so: Pilot, you can "win" the argument of who was Knox's lead lawyer, if it makes you feel better about yourself. As long as you concede that I "won" the argument on whether Knox and Sollecito should be acquitted :)

LOL, don't worry LJ - I agree that even if technically there was no 'lead lawyer', Dalla Vedova acted the part to all intents and purposes (just as Bongiorno was obviously Sollecito's main lawyer). It's just that I thought it was funny when Dalla Vedova explicitly denied being 'lead lawyer', given the discussion here. :p
 
And a note on the guilty verdict handed down by Hellmann's court for the criminal slander charge against Lumumba.

This charge will now go to the Supreme Court for examination, as is automatic for all serious charges where the appeal level returns guilty verdicts. I think it will be interesting to see what happens at the Supreme Court level. Personally, I think Knox should fight this charge robustly: if the appeal court ruled that she was not involved in the murder, it makes little sense that it found that she was motivated to make a false accusation of her own free will.

But I have a funny feeling that Knox might instruct her lawyers not to fight the charge in the Supreme Court. After all, if she has success at Supreme Court level, that won't mean acquittal of that charge. It will mean that the criminal slander charge will be referred back down to the appeal court level as a stand-alone charge. And that will then entail Knox having to travel back to Italy and spend weeks or even months there while the appeal trial takes place. I wonder therefore if she might not relish that prospect, and might be prepared to give up the fight on that charge.
 
This kind of witch hunt has gone on more than once in the US legal system. For those willing to condemn the Italian legal system earlier, it does seem that the Italians are not hung up on technicalities when it comes to the appeal process. In the US, valid reasonable evidence is not considered in an appeal unless it is ruled as a reason for a new trial. The Italian appeal seemed to carefully revisit all the evidence, not just the stuff that was included in the first trial.
 
And a note on the guilty verdict handed down by Hellmann's court for the criminal slander charge against Lumumba.

This charge will now go to the Supreme Court for examination, as is automatic for all serious charges where the appeal level returns guilty verdicts. I think it will be interesting to see what happens at the Supreme Court level. Personally, I think Knox should fight this charge robustly: if the appeal court ruled that she was not involved in the murder, it makes little sense that it found that she was motivated to make a false accusation of her own free will.

But I have a funny feeling that Knox might instruct her lawyers not to fight the charge in the Supreme Court. After all, if she has success at Supreme Court level, that won't mean acquittal of that charge. It will mean that the criminal slander charge will be referred back down to the appeal court level as a stand-alone charge. And that will then entail Knox having to travel back to Italy and spend weeks or even months there while the appeal trial takes place. I wonder therefore if she might not relish that prospect, and might be prepared to give up the fight on that charge.
It's too bad Knox cannot sue Rudy Guede for the same slander. I doubt he has the money to pay a judgement.
 
Ahh, I don't know if "The Machine" over on .org is ignorant or mendacious when he writes the following nonsense:

Knox's cellmate was acquitted at her appeal, but then convicted again at the Italian Supreme Court.


As I posted the other day, Knox's erstwhile cellmate (Angela Biriukova) was acquitted in the first trial (i.e the level of the Massei trial), but then found guilty in the appeal trial (i.e. the level of the Hellmann trial). The guilty verdict of the appeal trial was then examined and affirmed by the Supreme Court. Biriukova was categorically not acquitted by the appeal court and then convicted by the Supreme Court. "The Machine" (AKA Harry Rag) is a sad joke who is deeply over-invested in an irrational and dogmatic belief in Knox's/Sollecito's guilt. If I were him, I'd be maintaining a dignified silence now, followed by a quiet withdrawal from the scene.
 
It might survive the Supreme Court though, for much the same reasons. And as this was the second go through of that case too, any appeal to that level can only be on a point of law, I believe.

Yes, I was thinking it might have been a local decision, one that the resident jurors of Perugia thought 'fair' even if it wasn't entirely legal, and would be overturned. Hellmann goes back up north, he doesn't live there, the jurors might not want to make that kind of damning decision for their community--being a tourist destination--but if Rome makes the call.... ;)

The point of law would probably be something about that trial ever being incorporated into the murder trial, especially with the statements declared inadmissible by the Supreme Court as evidence against Amanda.

Amanda may have to accept that she was screwed over on that particular point.

Perhaps, it's kind of a harsh screw-job though, as it decreases by about 75% the money she should receive from the Italian government as a result of being wrongly incarcerated for four years. It also takes the money she got from her diary being leaked and published causing her sexual history to be be leaked to the tabloids providing 'evidence' (even if grossly misrepresented) of her being a 'slut' and being defamed as such over a good portion of the world to be given to Patrick, who was one of them doing it, most recently as of late reviving the 'witchgirl' mythology.

All because she signed a 'witness' statement saying she vaguely or confusedly remembered something? If I 'vaguely' thought you were involved in a murder, and put it that way because I wasn't sure, should I get three years in prison if it turns out that isn't true? I wonder how crowded the prisons would be anywhere if all of a sudden three year convictions came automatically from mistaken witness accounts?

Also, the resolution of that calunnia charge might impact the other, more serious one, the one going through the courts still. That could net her six more years in prison, which would not be considered 'time served' anymore. She could of course decline to return to Italy, be convicted in absentia and forgo ever in her life traveling to the EU, but considering she's spent all that time learning those languages of hers, it would seem she'd like to someday go to the countries where they speak them.


Even tonight, when looking at a newspaper spread, one BBC reporter remarked that there was nothing about Raffaele Sollecito, he seemed to be the forgotten victim. At that, his co-presenter chimed in to say that of course the really forgotten victim was Meredith Kercher - and the camera promptly zoomed in on a sizeable article about the Kerchers on the right of the page. The co-presenter then started praising their "restraint and dignity".

I wonder if that guy reads PMF?

Rolfe.

No, they read Maresca, those are his lines. Incidentally, Raffaele Sollecito gets 675k or so hits on Google, one tenth that of Amanda and Meredith, so I'd say you were right and something I've kind of been subtly satirizing for months, how little interest poor Raffaele ever received. I'm trying to remember the scene of his celebrating with his family, all I can remember is a hunched over Amanda, the judge all of a sudden talking really fast, and her family gathered around her. I have a mental image of a happy Raffaele, but I'm not sure I saw it today!
 
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