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Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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Ammonitida said:
I really hope that's true. I doubt Hellman cried because he's a guy and that's taboo, so that leaves the women jurors. Very good news. My hopes for acquittal have just raised significantly.
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So we have Hellman who probably did not cry because he's a man but he's very likely leaning toward acquittal based on his past actions. That leaves the women jurors. The article mentions "members of the jury" which means at least more than one female juror responded emotionally to Amanda's tears. Clearly they wouldn't have responded that way if they had bought the "sex-loving she-devil" nonsense spewed by the prosecution. That means at least 3 jurors that we know of are in all likelihood for acquittal (provided of course that the article's claims are correct). How many jurors are there again? 6?
 
halides1 said:
I did not hear that Arline said that, but I was not listening to every word. There is not one scintilla of evidence to support her assertion.
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I could have picked that up wrong. It was related to something about an article in the Times from several years ago.

I didn't find the family very articulate. They seem a bit unsure what line to take. Arline has a particular accent I associate with lower-middle-class suburban London, and although I have dear friends who speak that way, it has always annoyed the hell out of me.

Everyone is hamstrung by the impossibility of declaring in public that the police are a bunch of morons, Mignini is a vindictive witch-hunter, and the original verdict was perverse. This goes treble for the journalists, who simply can't say any of that even if they think it.

Once the acquittals are in (do we have a finger-crossing smilie?), things will change. The narrative of Rudy as the cat-burglar turned rapist and murderer, and the two students unjustly suspected by the intransigent and incompetent Italian police can be told without hindrance, and I think a lot of people may start to see things that way. I just hope the Kerchers are among them.

Rolfe.
 
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Do we know that this "jurors moved to tears" thing is true? If it is, it's very telling indeed.

These people have been immersed in this case for months. The bottom line is, they have to decide whether Amanda and Raffaele were at the cottage that evening and involved in Meredith's murder in some way, or whether they spent the whole time at his flat, cuddling and watching films and smoking pot.

If the latter is true, then the whole thing is an appalling tragedy for two young lives. A tragedy caused by the police and criminal justice system of their own city. If that is the conclusion you have come to, then seeing Amanda plead her innocence could be a very moving spectacle.

If you think she wielded the knife that killed Meredith, not so much.

Rolfe.
 
Rolfe said:
Do we know that this "jurors moved to tears" thing is true? If it is, it's very telling indeed.

These people have been immersed in this case for months. The bottom line is, they have to decide whether Amanda and Raffaele were at the cottage that evening and involved in Meredith's murder in some way, or whether they spent the whole time at his flat, cuddling and watching films and smoking pot.

If the latter is true, then the whole thing is an appalling tragedy for two young lives. A tragedy caused by the police and criminal justice system of their own city. If that is the conclusion you have come to, then seeing Amanda plead her innocence could be a very moving spectacle.

If you think she wielded the knife that killed Meredith, not so much.

Rolfe.
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For anyone who has been sufficiently exposed to the details of this case, it all boils down to judgment. Very simplistic judgment, actually, of the variety of having the good sense to pour piss out of a boot.

Italians are noted bootmakers, so let's hope these jurors' proper exposure to the details during this trial allows them to get things the right way around.
 
Rolfe said:
Do we know that this "jurors moved to tears" thing is true? If it is, it's very telling indeed.

These people have been immersed in this case for months. The bottom line is, they have to decide whether Amanda and Raffaele were at the cottage that evening and involved in Meredith's murder in some way, or whether they spent the whole time at his flat, cuddling and watching films and smoking pot.

If the latter is true, then the whole thing is an appalling tragedy for two young lives. A tragedy caused by the police and criminal justice system of their own city. If that is the conclusion you have come to, then seeing Amanda plead her innocence could be a very moving spectacle.

If you think she wielded the knife that killed Meredith, not so much.

Rolfe.
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I hope that is right. Although I had a thought that, if I were watching her and I had the power to change her circumstances and set her free, would I be as sad and crying as if I was soon going to have to sentence her to more of the same?

Taking the cynical side here. I am hopeful that people who are saying if the jurors cried it is a positive sign of sympathy for Amanda, but I can't take that as absolute.
 
Rolfe said:
Do we know that this "jurors moved to tears" thing is true? If it is, it's very telling indeed.

These people have been immersed in this case for months. The bottom line is, they have to decide whether Amanda and Raffaele were at the cottage that evening and involved in Meredith's murder in some way, or whether they spent the whole time at his flat, cuddling and watching films and smoking pot.

If the latter is true, then the whole thing is an appalling tragedy for two young lives. A tragedy caused by the police and criminal justice system of their own city. If that is the conclusion you have come to, then seeing Amanda plead her innocence could be a very moving spectacle.

If you think she wielded the knife that killed Meredith, not so much.

Rolfe.
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I for one do not think CBS would have reported that some jurors "openly wept" as Knox read her statement, were it not true.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/10/03/501364/main20114632.shtml

"48 Hours Mystery" correspondent Peter Van Sant reports that Knox appealed to the jury - members of which wept openly during her statement - to reverse the conviction and let her return home.
"I insist I'm innocent and that must be defended. I just want to go home, go back to my life," she told the court through tears.

Van Sant says Knox's words brought tears even to the eyes of some journalists in the room.
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Rolfe said:
Do we know that this "jurors moved to tears" thing is true? If it is, it's very telling indeed.
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"48 Hours Mystery" correspondent Peter Van Sant reports that Knox appealed to the jury - members of which wept openly during her statement - to reverse the conviction and let her return home.

"I insist I'm innocent and that must be defended. I just want to go home, go back to my life," she told the court through tears.

Van Sant says Knox's words brought tears even to the eyes of some journalists in the room.
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This quotes Peter Van Sant, who is a reputable journalist and he has no reason to lie--or make the even more spectacular claim that it brought tears to the eyes of flint-hearted journalists. Note that Van Sant figured this out long ago and if I recall said something like he was 100% sure that Amanda was innocent at the first trial, however at this juncture 'spin' is meaningless for something like this and he'd only be deluding 'fellow travelers' by being mistaken.

Of course they could be crying because they know how their fellow jurors feel and that they'll be outvoted and Amanda and Raffaele are doomed....

:boxedin:
 
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Dougm said:
I hope that is right. Although I had a thought that, if I were watching her and I had the power to change her circumstances and set her free, would I be as sad and crying as if I was soon going to have to sentence her to more of the same?
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Don't be daft!

smkovalinksy said:
I for one do not think CBS would have reported that some jurors "openly wept" as Knox read her statement, were it not true.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/10/03/501364/main20114632.shtml
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Thank you, that sounds very encouraging.

This is silly. I have the day off because I leave early tomorrow morning on holiday. I have a heap of preparations to do. I had to go into town to get travellers' cheques because the village post office doesn't stock them. I drove nine miles, stood in the queue, then realised I didn't have my passport with me. I had to return home to get it. Thirty-six miles, in the end.

I have to tidy and pack and sort out a wheen of stuff, and I'm sitting here following some damn trial whose verdict I can't change, which will all be revealed in a couple of hours anyway....

Rolfe.
 
smkovalinksy said:
I for one do not think CBS would have reported that some jurors "openly wept" as Knox read her statement, were it not true.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/10/03/501364/main20114632.shtml
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Here's a gem of a comment from that cbs article

"No she didn't. She also didn't explain why security camera video showed that she and her boyfriend lied about what time they left her apartment and went to his place. She also didn't explain why security camera video showed she and her boyfriend returned to the apartment much earlier the following morning than they claimed or why they stopped at a market to purchase bleach and other cleaning supplies, and spent several hours scrubbing and scouring away blood evidence at the entrance, foyer and stairs of the apartment before finally calling the police. She also didn't explain how Meredith's phone was discarded a full 24 hours later, with her and her boyfriend's fingerprints on it. While there was certainly a tabloid element to Knox's trial, and the prosecutor seemed to go overboard in demonizing her during the appeal/retrial, there are many legitimate questions regarding Knox's behavior and her changing stories that have never been adequately explained."

There's also a guy going on about how Amanda refused a "lie detector" test like that would mean anything even if it were true.

Sadly, many will always see her as guilty.
 
yeti101 said:
yeah I heard she was practising it for 3 months
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I read that too.

What else does one do in prison, wait until the last minute?

I think the only thing left for the guilters is the behavioral, the responses, in short the unprovable and subjective issues.
diary's interpretations, interrogation unknowns, filomenas broken window pile of scenarios....
 
Rolfe said:
This is silly. I have the day off because I leave early tomorrow morning on holiday. I have a heap of preparations to do. I had to go into town to get travellers' cheques because the village post office doesn't stock them. I drove nine miles, stood in the queue, then realised I didn't have my passport with me. I had to return home to get it. Thirty-six miles, in the end.

I have to tidy and pack and sort out a wheen of stuff, and I'm sitting here following some damn trial whose verdict I can't change, which will all be revealed in a couple of hours anyway....

Rolfe.
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Except...it might not be 8:00pm now. Weasel Maresca claims it will be nearer 10:00pm GMT. You should be free around midnight then... :D
 
I can't stand this waiting... can't imagine what hell Amanda and Raffaelle are going through :(
and hi, all. I'm gonna be here til the verdict.
 
I am on pins and needles here at work waiting on this verdict. Thank you to everyone for the updates and links, etc...I cannot believe those comments on the CBS site, it makes my blood boil that there are so many factual inaccuracies and these people are preaching it like it is gospel.
 
bri1 said:
I can't stand this waiting... can't imagine what hell Amanda and Raffaelle are going through :(
and hi, all. I'm gonna be here til the verdict.
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Hi Bri (Hey, I'm a poet!)

I just read somewhere (20 minutes ago) that an Italian MP visited Amanda and she is playing the guitar and singing. I hope she is able to do this IN HER OWN HOUSE soon. :)

Also, something about it taking about an hour or so for her and Raffaele to be released from prison if the correct acquittal is declared. Not sure about that though.
 
Scorpion NITE said:
The main judge, Claudio Pratillo Hellmann, urged those in court to be respectful and quiet when the verdict is read out later. As he said:

''This is NOT a football match''
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Yet in the same paragraph he said "... the fates of two young people are in the game" :)
 
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