Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[Grinder]

I saw this yesterday on the CBS comment thread. It makes the mind reel. I was hoping Pilot would critique it.

by Sobering_Thought October 1, 2011 7:16 PM EDT
You obviously don't know much about this case. There was actually a huge amount of evidence against Amanda Knox. She lied even when she claimed she had not been in the house. CCTV footage proved she had. She lied in accusing two other innocent people. What kind of sweet innocent girl does not tell the police when there is a dead body in the house? Instead, she and her boyfriend dragged the corpse of Meredith from the kitchen into her bedroom and there faked an elaborate "break-in". They lied that Meredith had been attacked by an intruder. But there was no intruder, They themselves broke the window from the inside as detailed evidence showed! Amanda went out early on the Sunday morning to buy cleaning equipment at a local shop. Then she lied to the police saying she had been at Raff's house. A receipt from the shop proved she was lying. It had the date, the time and the items purchased on it. She cleaned up the whole flat removing blood and fingerprints. She and Raff even put their clothes and Meredith's in the washing-machine to destroy evidence. The machine was running when the police arrived. Money belonging to Meredith had disappeared in an unexplained way - and the same amount was found in Amanda's possession. She was known to drug-dealers and she herself told police she had been taking marijuana, it was not an invention of the newspapers. She had many motives for hatred of Meredith, who had constantly complained about Amanda's drug-taking and ******** ways. You are silly if you are taken in by her pretty face! This has nothing to do with Italian hostility to America. It has everything to do with the Perugian police doing a good job on a nasty violent junkie.

 

[mdana]

I'm not sure if the bottom circle is actually blood. Could be a reflection.

I think this is correct although it seems it could go either way.

 

[Paninaro]

Mine, too - but I fear his is tricking us.

Claudio Pratillo Hellmann and Massimo Zanetti will start of by telling the lay judges that there is no way they can convict on this kind of circumstantial evidence, since the key pieces of that evidence is utterly unreliable. They will argue back and forth on details of what the acquittal's exact meaning will be and then there will be a non-guilty verdict in the murder part of the trial.

Amanda's speech will not be of any importance and that 50/50 talk is just media logic.

 

[LivingonaPrayer]

Mine is 83. Is lower better?

OMG too funny..it is better than mine (golf score that is..maybe)

 

[smkovalinksy]

Claudio Pratillo Hellmann and Massimo Zanetti will start of by telling the lay judges that there is no way they can convict on this kind of circumstantial evidence, since the key pieces of that evidence is utterly unreliable. They will argue back and forth on details of what the acquittal's exact meaning will be and then there will be a non-guilty verdict in the murder part of the trial.

Amanda's speech will not be of any importance and that 50/50 talk is just media logic.

If you are as right as you are confident, this is wonderful news...Amanda enters court in 6 hours.

 

[Kaosium]

Are we even sure that is blood? There was fake blood from Meredith's Halloween costume found in the sink area too, which made it look saturated with much more potential evidence than it actually was.

It's blood, and Amanda's. Here's what Massei has to say about it:

On the front part of the tap of the sink, there was coagulated blood which was shown to belong to Amanda.

Amanda was not wounded; in the days following no one spoke of wounds that she might have had; the examination which was carried out on her when measures restricting her personal freedom were taken ruled out the presence of wounds. Meredith’s situation was the complete opposite. In relation to this and to the circumstance by which haematological stains attributable to Meredith were found on the inside of the door, on the toilet-seat cover, on the light switch, it should be deduced that the haematological components found in the sink, in the bidet, on the box of cotton buds were also from Meredith. Nor can it otherwise be argued for the presence of a drop of Amanda’s blood on the tap of the sink. This consisted of a spot of coagulated blood, with respect to which Amanda explained that it came from her own ear having been pierced; this spot, furthermore, was located towards the inside of the sink: distinct, separate and morphologically different, therefore, from the trace found in the sink itself.

Not even Massei tried to fit it into the murder, it's just an artifact left in Amanda's sink, most probably because of Amanda's fad of perforating her ears. Finding traces of someone's 'precious bodily fluids' in their own bathroom is to be expected, not finding it in the murder room is not, and one is no substitute for the other.

 

[smkovalinksy]

ACQUITTAL RUMOURS SHOCK MEREDITH'S MOTHER AND SISTER

http://www.agi.it/english-version/i...al_rumours_shock_meredith_s_mother_and_sister

 

[DarkStar2011]

I saw this yesterday on the CBS comment thread. It makes the mind reel. I was hoping Pilot would critique it.

I'm reminded of former Senator Moynihan's famous saying, "Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but no one is entitled to their own facts." That quote contains a provable falsehood claimed to be a "fact" in virtually every sentence. (CORRECTION: The poster is right in saying that Knox admitted to using marijuana. But that's about it. And even a broken clock is right twice a day.)

 

[DarkStar2011]

http://www.agi.it/english-version/i...al_rumours_shock_meredith_s_mother_and_sister

Maresca. He's shocked...shocked, I tell ya!

 

[smkovalinksy]

I saw this yesterday on the CBS comment thread. It makes the mind reel. I was hoping Pilot would critique it.

Ha, I wish. But it is frightening that there is so much of this out there, patchworked together from early news items, with a bit of rumor embellishment. Ugh, let us hope the jurors are not of this stamp. They can't be. They just can't be.

 

[Ammonitida]

I saw this yesterday on the CBS comment thread. It makes the mind reel. I was hoping Pilot would critique it.

I doubt that was written by someone who was just uniformed about the case. The lies are too detailed, too malicious sounding. It was probably written by a guilter with extensive knowledge and he or she is trying to poison the uniformed against Amanda. It just goes to show how weak the giulter side is. I really hope their campaign of hate comes to an end tomorrow with a not guilty verdict.

 

[theRealBob]

I think I’m the first person to come up with a credible timeline for the events for the night.

After using the subterfuge of a visitor to Raff’s and limited computer usage, it’s time to swing into action. Raff and Amanda defy all TOD theories by riding Amanda’s mop to the cottage through the night.

On arrival they ring their own doorbell then storm into their own flat.

The dashing (and credible Rudy) is alerted by the doorbell ringing to the possibilty that Meredith is in danger. Although on the can taking the longest dump in history, while digesting the life works of Stravinsky, he interrupts the Adaggio for strings to rush bravely to Meredith’s aid.
As he bursts into the room to save Meredeth he is hit by Amanda using the Cruciatus Curse.

Simultaneously in the quiet recesses of a perfect mind in downtown Seattle, a dawning of an awakening is arisen. Peggy Ganong feels the flush of realisation that she has been chosen to follow a conviction that she will one day run a website that will hunt down, burn at the stake and destroy unto the third generation, all those who post against her beliefs.

Back in Perugia with Rudy immobilized, it is child’s play for Amanda to summon the dreaded Mignini Curse which she uses on both Rudy and Raff.to tie them ino a vicious sex game and murder of the flatmate she just went to the chocolate festival and concer with, the Facebook friend she exchanges endearing text messages with.

Raff and Amanda then pinch the drug money and mobile phones and escape. Rudy, recovering now from the curse dashes to the window to see the figures he will accuse in court as vague shadows disappear into the night.

Rudy bravely attempts to save the life of the dying Meredith then goes to the local disco to dance it off , telling no one what has happened.

Raff and Amanda return to the flat later in the night and selectively clean their own dna and blood evidence using magic (simple innit ?)

The following day will dawn in the light, where Amanda’s powers are weaker, and she will soon call the cops and lead them to Raff’s bathmat footprint, then say to them ‘look at that’

 

[moodstream]

good luck convincing people who think she's guilty and demanding they change their minds. The world just doesn't work like that.

Yes but, once out of confinement, Amanda Knox will change their minds.

 

[Kaosium]

http://www.agi.it/english-version/i...al_rumours_shock_meredith_s_mother_and_sister

That's just a better translation than Google provided of Maresca's statement. He's still telling us the family will be most displeased if Raffaele and Amanda aren't burnt at the stake like Mignini, and their fine lawyer (1-800-CALL-A-RAT) Fransesco Maresca promised.

Thus to make them happy, Raffaele and Amanda must burn, that is the only consideration.

Bye-bye, little ones! The family wants you to Burn!

 

[DarkStar2011]

Ha, I wish. But it is frightening that there is so much of this out there, patchworked together from early news items, with a bit of rumor embellishment. Ugh, let us hope the jurors are not of this stamp. They can't be. They just can't be.

Remember, the question isn't just whether the jurors could think this way, it's whether five of them (or four and the assistant judge) could think this way. Since Italy doesn't require a unanimous verdict, you don't need to win over all the jurors, just a majority.

Is it possible that one or even two of the jurors thinks like that? There's always that possibility. But is it possible that five of them think that way? To my mind, that's a far less-likely premise.

 

[Danceme]

_________________________

Here's a much better photograph. Very little "blood." Blood is the red stuff, not the orange reflection.
[qimg]http://www.perugiamurderfile.net/gallery/image.php?mode=medium&album_id=21&image_id=219[/qimg]

///

I'm sure the bathroom ceiling is wood, which is the orange reflection. If you zoom in close enough you can also see the face and white suit of one of the technicians, as well as the door frame reflected in the faucet and handle both. There are a couple of very faint lines of diluted blood along the right side of the faucet as well as the one or two red splotches but the remainder appears to be the wood ceiling reflection.

Eta. In the handle you can also see the underside of the shelf above as well as one of the support brackets (just loving the pinch zoom on my iPad)

 

[mdana]

I don't see anything especially sinister in making sure that they have dinner if they need it. Better than finding they need it and didn't order. They may even feel that they don't want to leave and run the media gauntlet after the verdict is delivered.

And I find the assumption that women are all biassed against Knox and would vote to convict personally insulting. And in case anyone from PMF is lurking here (as if!), my Mensa IQ tested out at 161 and I firmly believe Knox and Sollecito had nothing at all to do with the murder.

Rolfe.

I don't think the posters were stating that women as a group were biased against Knox. It is difficult to state with certainty the meaning of your sentence due to the construct of "women are all biassed", which reads to me like you were trying to type "all women are biased". They were just posting on their concerns of a possible bias which I don't think is unreasonable given the male/female demographics of those who find the pair innocent. There is a higher percentage of females that find the pair guilty than males in every group I have encountered such as journalists following the case, internet polls, and message boards. Granted, none of this is scientific, statistically sound, or marginally representative. However, it is the only data they have to base their judgment, so I don't think it is an insult.

 

[DarkStar2011]

I think I’m the first person to come up with a credible timeline for the events for the night.

(...)

The dashing (and credible Rudy) is alerted by the doorbell ringing to the possibilty that Meredith is in danger. Although on the can taking the longest dump in history, while digesting the life works of Stravinsky, he interrupts the Adaggio for strings to rush bravely to Meredith’s aid.

It's "Adagio," not "Adaggio," and it was composed by Samuel Barber, not Stravinsky.

Besides, witches ride brooms, not mops.

So much for your theory...

 

[PhantomWolf]

I saw this yesterday on the CBS comment thread. It makes the mind reel. I was hoping Pilot would critique it.

wow, just wow. I had to read that several times to make sure that I hadn't missed anything that was actually true. How can anyone that is so woefully ill-informed about the case make such a sure statement? Not one of the things that commenter claims was actually argued by the prosecution.

CCTV footage proved she had. - Incorrect, the CCTV footage shows Meredith heading home.

She lied in accusing two other innocent people. - Really? Even if we accept that she lied and accused Patrick, that's just one person, who was the other?

What kind of sweet innocent girl does not tell the police when there is a dead body in the house? - Not actually wring as such, but relues of the basis that she was guilty and thus knew.

Instead, she and her boyfriend dragged the corpse of Meredith from the kitchen into her bedroom - Why The Face? Where is the evidence that Meredith was killed in the kitchen and dragged to the bedroom? All the evidence is that she was killed in her bedroom!

and there faked an elaborate "break-in". - Um, the break in was in Filomena's room, not Meredith's.

They lied that Meredith had been attacked by an intruder. - When did either Raf or AK claim this?

But there was no intruder, They themselves broke the window from the inside as detailed evidence showed! - Really? Even if you were to accept that the window was broken from inside (the evidence says otherwise) where is the detailed evidence that shows it was them that did it?

Amanda went out early on the Sunday morning to buy cleaning equipment at a local shop. - Really? Didn't the murder happen on the 1st of Nov 2007? That was a Thursday, what use would the supposed cleaning equipment (which according to the unreliable witness she didn't buy anyway) have been on Sunday?

Then she lied to the police saying she had been at Raff's house. - except that phone records show she was there that morning.

A receipt from the shop proved she was lying. It had the date, the time and the items purchased on it. - except it didn't exist.

She cleaned up the whole flat removing blood and fingerprints. - Except the ones in the Bathroom, hallway, and Meredith's room

She and Raff even put their clothes and Meredith's in the washing-machine to destroy evidence. - Except that Raf and AK's clothing wasn't in the washing machine.

The machine was running when the police arrived. - apart from the fact it wasn't.

Money belonging to Meredith had disappeared in an unexplained way - excepting that a person's DNA was found on the bag...

the same amount was found in Amanda's possession. - or not.

She was known to drug-dealers - Who have never been found. Well okay there was the whole number that would later be recycled to a drug dealer about a year or two later, but other then that...

she herself told police she had been taking marijuana - OMG, she used MJ, she MUST be a murderer!!!! We'll give the commenter a point for getting one right.

She had many motives for hatred of Meredith, who had constantly complained about Amanda's drug-taking and ******** ways. - Umm, if Meredith hated her ways, wouldn't that be a motive for Meredith killing Amanda, not the other way about?

 

[mdana]

It's blood, and Amanda's. Here's what Massei has to say about it:





Not even Massei tried to fit it into the murder, it's just an artifact left in Amanda's sink, most probably because of Amanda's fad of perforating her ears. Finding traces of someone's 'precious bodily fluids' in their own bathroom is to be expected, not finding it in the murder room is not, and one is no substitute for the other.

I should have kept reading. LJ posted it was Amanda's blood a few posts later, but thanks for citing the reference.

However, I don't think those believing in guilt recognize that some of the dried fake blood was found in the sink area (if I am remembering correctly) making Amanda's failure to recognize the spots of actual blood not so incriminating. There a few tiny spots at noon on Nov. 1, if there were a couple more the next day you would not necessarily notice them.

For example, if I go use the bathroom sink on Monday and there are 3 hair fibers in the area, is it really unbelievable if I don't notice 4-7 on Tuesday?

I am a slob and would consider the area "clean".