Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[Kaosium]

For some reason this reminds me of the Simpsons




In this case 'both' seems to be the plan if the appeal is not successful.

But joking [or idle threats] aside what is plan B for the Foakers.
Are the 101st MAM ready to spring into action.

I see the putative team leader is already 'in country' but his cover may have been blown.

As covert ops go surely a mistake - to insult the 'evil doers' before shooting them may work in the movies but IRL forewarned is forearmed. No ??

Platonov!

Raffaele and Amanda are innocent, and enough people know that now their stories won't end in prison regardless of the verdict Monday, which is highly likely to be an acquittal so it won't matter.

What will you do in the event of an acquittal?

 

[Grinder]

If the latter is so, then I'm a bit nervous about any jury. However, the great thing about the Italian system, is that there are 2 experienced judges on the jury that (one would think) have excellent reasoning skills that could hopefully, influence the others, at least with using skills of logical reason.

I'm more worried about the lay judges. Will we find out how the vote was divided if it is divided?

 

[lowriderrsa]

Raf's was a five - ten minute walk to Amanda's cottage.

Grinder,

On the strenght of your posts I'll take your word for that.

So we seem to have a possible opportunity. If only I can find a Motive and Evidence of Raffaelle being involved in the actual crime I might change my mind...

 

[js202]

Yes: All true, all disgusting. But let us neither forget how the minds of the intelligent pmf-ers themselves have also been penetrated; that those who would champion the Kerchers in their exploitation are themselves exploited: through cracks in the psyches of persons whose reason and logic could not withstand the siren-call of a seductive theory, the wedge was driven in; so much so, that now, one gets things such as this from PMF:

Which abject moron posted this? Go ahead, name names, SMK. I refuse to go over to that cesspit of mentally retrograde vipers.

An IQ over 70. What piffle. It would be excessive praise, indeed, to blame PMF's or TJMK's most erudite poster -- Kermit, Harry Rag, Zorba... any other idiotic monikers spring to mind? -- of possessing the intellectual talent to operate an espresso machine without risk to life or limb.

 

[Steft50]

Raf's was a five - ten minute walk to Amanda's cottage.

Grinder,

On the strenght of your posts I'll take your word for that.

So we seem to have a possible opportunity. If only I can find a Motive and Evidence of Raffaelle being involved in the actual crime I might change my mind...

So is the park inbetween Raf's and Amandas apartments? If you believe the prosecutions druggie witness, then you have to throw in his testimony of seeing them hanging out at the park before the murder. Seems to shorten that window of oppurtunity.

 

[billyryan]

Does anybody agree that since all indications are that the jury has already made up their minds on the verdict,that even if Hellmann and his asistant inform nobody that the six lay judges might not be as dependable,up to now everything has being leaked in Perugia with such a huge big money media presence in Perugia maybe a lot of people know the verdict

Just suppose you were one of the lay judges and you were offered big money for the verdict would you be tempted what about one of the lay judges telling their partners telling their families,would some of the media then tell the Knox's I find it hard to believe in a city where everything is leaked that nobody outside of the judge and the six lay judges will know the verdict until Hellmann delivers it in court,I stand by my belief that no judge would break with protocol and allow camera's into court to film Amanda's and Raffaele's reaction to being wrongly convicted again

 

[lowriderrsa]

So is the park inbetween Raf's and Amandas apartments? If you believe the prosecutions druggie witness, then you have to throw in his testimony of seeing them hanging out at the park before the murder. Seems to shorten that window of oppurtunity.

You are quite correct, but we can't really trust his testimony now can we? Despite the prosecutions claim that heroin doesn't cause halucinations this bum saw busses and people that were definitely not there

In all honesty I don't see the importance of providing a solid alibi when motive and involvement cannot be proven.

 

[smkovalinksy]

Which abject moron posted this? Go ahead, name names, SMK. I refuse to go over to that cesspit of mentally retrograde vipers.

An IQ over 70. What piffle. It would be excessive praise, indeed, to blame PMF's or TJMK's most erudite poster -- Kermit, Harry Rag, Zorba... any other idiotic monikers spring to mind? -- of possessing the intellectual talent to operate an espresso machine without risk to life or limb.

It was actually someone I had never noticed before: hikergirl99?? But I for one refuse to let it upset me: I have an IQ of 140, studied Aristotlean logic, Nichomachean ethics, metaphysics, classical latin; was phi beta epsilon, yada yada, and I have studied the evidence and think they are innocent. ETA: Not to mention you and all the even more brilliant people here....It just irks me that a lack of ability to reason is their explanation for belief in innocence.

 

[smkovalinksy]

Does anybody agree that since all indications are that the jury has already made up their minds on the verdict,that even if Hellmann and his asistant inform nobody that the six lay judges might not be as dependable,up to now everything has being leaked in Perugia with such a huge big money media presence in Perugia maybe a lot of people know the verdict

Just suppose you were one of the lay judges and you were offered big money for the verdict would you be tempted what about one of the lay judges telling their partners telling their families,would some of the media then tell the Knox's I find it hard to believe in a city where everything is leaked that nobody outside of the judge and the six lay judges will know the verdict until Hellmann delivers it in court,I stand by my belief that no judge would break with protocol and allow camera's into court to film Amanda's and Raffaele's reaction to being wrongly convicted again

I hadn't thought about that....I understand what you are saying in your last sentence, but please understand that Hellman et al, if convicting them, would not believe that the cameras would be catching the faces of Knox and Sollecito wrongfully convicted, but rather rightly convicted. Capice?

 

[Steft50]

You are quite correct, but we can't really trust his testimony now can we? Despite the prosecutions claim that heroin doesn't cause halucinations this bum saw busses and people that were definitely not there

In all honesty I don't see the importance of providing a solid alibi when motive and involvement cannot be proven.

I know that and you know that but there are some that still seem to see the evidence the prosecutor presented as the word of god. I just popped that in to remind the poster that they supposedly didn't go straight from RS's apartment to Amandas. Thanks for the verification on what I was remembering.

 

[platonov]

Platonov!

Raffaele and Amanda are innocent, and enough people know that now their stories won't end in prison regardless of the verdict Monday, which is highly likely to be an acquittal so it won't matter.

What will you do in the event of an acquittal?

I may start obsessing about a woman (white, english speaking obviously) I have never met who is implicated in a murder [Rose West or whoever] and post incessantly on JREF, with ill concealed fury, about arguments posted elsewhere on the web whilst insulting her victim.

Why do you ask ?

But while you are here an answer to a Q you posed recently ...

What's that phenomena called when you reach a point in an online discussion where an argument for one side can become difficult to distinguish from a troll?

I believe the term is 'the groundhog has jumped the cartwheel' - it's similar to one you introduced a while back about sharks waxing surfboards & it happened on this thread about 65k posts ago.

ps IIRC a previous post of mine caused some confusion* - the Belka referred to was ( obviously ) Smyslov's cat.
And while she was reputed to be able to clear the queenside with a majestic if surreptitious swipe of her tail she seldom, if ever, operated a mobile phone.

* I try to dumb it down [see Simpsons ref] but one has limits of imagination apparently.

 

[lionking]

What will you do in the event of an acquittal?

I do know about Platonov, but I'm on record as saying I would accept it (with a shrug). But I'm absolutely certain you won't accept confirmation of a conviction, either next week or at the final appeal. So what after that? Another JREF poll? Trial by internet? Further fruitless posts on internet forums?

Will the time ever come when you will say "I've had a crack, but the full process of a first world judicial system has made a decision after examining all available evidence, and maybe it knows better than me"?

 

[Poppy1016]

I do know about Platonov, but I'm on record as saying I would accept it (with a shrug). But I'm absolutely certain you won't accept confirmation of a conviction, either next week or at the final appeal. So what after that? Another JREF poll? Trial by internet? Further fruitless posts on internet forums?

Will the time ever come when you will say "I've had a crack, but the full process of a first world judicial system has made a decision after examining all available evidence, and maybe it knows better than me"?

First world judicial system? Up until now, the justice system in Perugia has behaved in third world fashion.

 

[Dan O.]

Just suppose you were one of the lay judges and you were offered big money for the verdict would you be tempted what about one of the lay judges telling their partners telling their families,would some of the media then tell the Knox's I find it hard to believe in a city where everything is leaked that nobody outside of the judge and the six lay judges will know the verdict until Hellmann delivers it in court

Although Hellmann has probably sized up the standing of the court, I doubt that they would have already held a vote of guilt or innocence. The most that any of the judges could say is what their standing is and their feeling for how the rest of the court stands.

Though, under your supposition, if one lay judge is offered big money for the verdict, they would know that other lay judges would also have to be made a similar offer. If one of the judges rats, the others loose their money and possibly go to jail. The rat gets a big reward. It's like a 6 way prisoners dilemma.

 

[lionking]

First world judicial system? Up until now, the justice system in Perugia has behaved in third world fashion.

So what will you do in the event of a conviction? This, of course, is a hypothetical question, just as the one to Platonov was.

 

[Dougm]

For some reason this reminds me of the Simpsons




In this case 'both' seems to be the plan if the appeal is not successful.

But joking [or idle threats] aside what is plan B for the Foakers.
Are the 101st MAM ready to spring into action.

I see the putative team leader is already 'in country' but his cover may have been blown.

As covert ops go surely a mistake - to insult the 'evil doers' before shooting them may work in the movies but IRL forewarned is forearmed. No ??

I knew someone would consider that a threat, which is why I specifically said it wasn't. But hey, I guess the Simpsons is a good analogy, because I had thought that got by without someone misinterpreting it, but I did not count on Homer to come along.

 

[Poppy1016]

So what will you do in the event of a conviction? This, of course, is a hypothetical question, just as the one to Platonov was.

In the case of a conviction, I would accept it as i did in the first trial, with the knowledge that the supreme court will review. If the final decision is guilt, we have no choice to accept it and move on. That doesn't mean I would agree with it though.

 

[platonov]

'When in Rome/Springfield' doesn't always work

I knew someone would consider that a threat, which is why I specifically said it wasn't. But hey, I guess the Simpsons is a good analogy, because I had thought that got by without someone misinterpreting it, but I did not count on Homer to come along.

'joking aside' seems self explanatory - it appears I didn't dumb it down enough, but that's as simple as I can make it

So is plan B still on ?

 

[Dougm]

'joking aside' seems self explanatory - it appears I didn't dumb it down enough, but that's as simple as I can make it

So is plan B still on ?

You dumbed it way down. From what I can see, plan B, C, and D are still on. Although no additional plans should be needed, if he court makes a rational decision.

 

[Poppy1016]

You dumbed it way down. From what I can see, plan B, C, and D are still on. Although no additional plans should be needed, if he court makes a rational decision.

Key word "rational"