Confederate flag causing a flap in SC

[Pup]

As far as I'm aware, nobody knows what that actually sounded like.

Well, "nobody knows" is one of those phrases that can be interpreted several ways. Obviously, nobody knows exactly what it sounded like unless they heard a Confederate soldier yell during the war, so in that sense, it's true that nobody knows.

But there's been a fair amount of scholarship on the topic that has provided what I think are reasonable estimations, based on period descriptions, the larger context of cries used when hunting with dogs, as well as some recordings of actual veterans giving the yell, when sound recordings came into existence. In that sense, I'd say historians are fairly far from just tossing up their hands and saying, "nobody knows."

A couple of discussions on the topic, with links to recordings:

http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/showthread.php?28111-The-Rebel-Yell

http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/showthread.php?3986-Rebel-Yell-Recordings

Short answer: like TX50 says, it wasn't "yeeee-haw!"

 

[pgwenthold]

This is often true, I know people who have WWII artifacts and display them in their homes.

If someone actually has a confederate flag from the civil war era, I would not object at all if they were to have it on display. I would be amazed if they were to display it not under glass in a safe place, though. That would be pretty idiotic.

OTOH, I don't know anyone who has replicas of German WWII artifacts around their house.

Situation 1: Someone has an original photograph of Hitler watching a Nazi soldier parade in Berlin in 1938, obtained from the photographer, displayed framed on their wall - NOT RACIST

Situation 2: Someone finds a digitized version of that picture on the internet, prints it out, frames it, and hangs it on their wall - RACIST

There's a big difference.

 

[pgwenthold]

Well, "nobody knows" is one of those phrases that can be interpreted several ways. Obviously, nobody knows exactly what it sounded like unless they heard a Confederate soldier yell during the war, so in that sense, it's true that nobody knows.

But there's been a fair amount of scholarship on the topic that has provided what I think are reasonable estimations, based on period descriptions, the larger context of cries used when hunting with dogs, as well as some recordings of actual veterans giving the yell, when sound recordings came into existence. In that sense, I'd say historians are fairly far from just tossing up their hands and saying, "nobody knows."

A couple of discussions on the topic, with links to recordings:

http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/showthread.php?28111-The-Rebel-Yell

http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/showthread.php?3986-Rebel-Yell-Recordings

Short answer: like TX50 says, it wasn't "yeeee-haw!"

Damn, I am going to have to strike that off my "Everything I Ever Needed to Know I Learned from the Dukes of Hazzard" poster

 

[Piggy]

A couple of discussions on the topic, with links to recordings

Cool, thanks. Hadn't heard the recording before.

But I wonder... does anyone actually think that CSA soldiers gave the modern (i.e. Dukes of Hazzard) "rebel yell" in battle?

 

[MaGZ]

You often see it in Canada for the reasons listed above. (In Red Deer, Alberta, the local hockey team was the Red Deer Rebels.)

And don’t forget the Edmonton Swastikas.
http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/File:Image-File_Edmonton_swastikas_s.jpg

 

[MaGZ]

No, but the people who created that flag, and are a source of 'pride' for those 'white' people you like, sure did. It was their major defining characteristic.

Now those people who lived at the time didn't know how wrong they were, how evil the cause they championed, and maybe not even how traitorous their theory about government were. Those looking back don't have that excuse.

They’re not looking back; they’re looking forward.
Southern Nationalism has a growing constituency.

 

[MaGZ]

You are perhaps unacquainted with the League of the South?

They do not advocate slavery. Perhaps they do not buy into all the propaganda about slavery?

 

[MaGZ]

Which shows even more cognitive dissonance. Picking both sides of a war?

Why is the south so different from germany in how it treats their history? Probably the long history of believing that fighting do you had the right to own blacks was a good thing to kill for.

In Germany there is a real fear there could be a National Socialist revival if certain symbols were not suppressed. The Government here is not in the business of suppressing political symbols.

 

[MaGZ]

I had a real job, in the military. Of course, I worked longer hours than most jobs require, and my job site was occasionally more austere than most work environments, and it was occasionally more dangerous than the average wage-paying job - but what the heck, I wasn't drafted. No body's fault but mine. I have a "real" job now. 8 hours a day, 5 days a week in an office with a secretary. Much, much better pay than before (thank you, thank you, thank you - I know just how lucky I am).

So far as I know, I've never been involved in firing anyone for their opinions. I do still think I was correct in leading an effort to get the product of an openly and active racist off the shelves of a store funded with federal tax dollars.

Let me ask you a straight question. Do you share Bessingers views on race?

So you do not think this should be a decision made by the market place concerning the BBQ sauce?

I favor racial separation not segregation. Politically: White Nationalist

 

[korenyx]

I was born and raised in Oxford, Mississippi, so the confederate flag has always been the symbol of the University of Mississippi to me. I brought my 'rebel flag' to every basketball game, along with most of the student body. Within the past decade, they changed the design to be a capital "M" formed with similar stripes.

And they had to get rid of Colonel Rebel, which I guess I understand. But what really gets me is freaking Lucas. I stuck by him and defended the prequels, but he wouldn't let the university use Admiral Ackbar as their new mascot. Screw you, George. [/end rant] What I don't get is if a guy yells 'dang queer' whilst beating up someone, its only a hate crime if the victim actually is homosexual.

Wichita's South High School originally had the Colonels for the mascot, Dixie for the fight song and the Stars and Bars for the flag. Everything (except the school colors) was changed a few years after the school was opened because of complaints. The mascot is now the Titans but I have no idea what the fight song is even though I went there.

 

[tyr_13]

They’re not looking back; they’re looking forward.
Southern Nationalism has a growing constituency.

Growing old.

 

[Tricky]

I favor racial separation not segregation. Politically: White Nationalist

What is the difference in separation vs. segregation?

 

[332nd]

I favor racial separation not segregation. Politically: White Nationalist

How's that gonna work for us mixed people? More of us every day.

 

[TX50]

[...]
A couple of discussions on the topic, with links to recordings:

http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/showthread.php?28111-The-Rebel-Yell

http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/showthread.php?3986-Rebel-Yell-Recordings

Short answer: like TX50 says, it wasn't "yeeee-haw!"

There's also a presentation on "You tube" by the "Museum of the Confederacy" about reconstructing it. It even includes some modern re-enactors being trained to perform it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfHylwlq9Ow
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buZ1M3iN-UE

 

[Drachasor]

They do not advocate slavery. Perhaps they do not buy into all the propaganda about slavery?

What propaganda?

 

[Pup]

How's that gonna work for us mixed people? More of us every day.

That was actually Lewis Tappan's idea back in the 1830s of how the problem of race relations would eventually be solved. He felt that the distinction of black and white would eventually disappear in America, as all the races intermarried and everybody turned out "copper colored," and he was totally cool with that.

His descendants (I'm not one of them) are some of the few people who I think could actually claim they had an ancestor from the 19th century who wasn't racist.

 

[L.Y.S.]

I favor racial separation not segregation. Politically: White Nationalist

Oh dear, "race" the most worthless social construct ever made. How exactly do you suppose you will overturn all the Supreme Court cases on the issue?

 

[sarge]

So you do not think this should be a decision made by the market place concerning the BBQ sauce?

My personal activity was limited to making the DoD aware that they were displaying a product exclusively produced by an avowed racial bigot. Such a product has no place in a store owned and operated by the Federal Goverment.

As for the protestors you claim to have broken bottles of the sauce in private stores - you have yet to demonstrate that actually happened. If it did, my opinion would be that vandalism is not a valid form of protest, and I'd mildly condemn it. I would actively support a lawful protest of the store itself, and I'd contribute to the purchase of the stores remaining stock of the product so that the bottles may be destroyed.

I favor racial separation not segregation. Politically: White Nationalist

There might be some way to express that I believe you are a racist without running afoul of the forum rules, but I can't think of one, so I will not.

 

[RenaissanceBiker]

What is the difference in separation vs. segregation?

Separation is where you are the separator. Segregation is where you are the segregatee.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Separation is where you are the separator. Segregation is where you are the segregatee.

I think it has to do with proximity, if they are around but use separate facilities that is segregation, separation is sending them away to somewhere else.