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Merged Psychological conditions are illusory

Jonesboy

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PTSD or post traumatic stress disorder isn't an illness. It is also not a disorder, as a disorder isn't a scientific fact but a veiled social value.

Researchers such as Stanislav Grof have shown that hyperventilation and flashbacks with intense emotional involvement are powerful, natural healing responses that are extremey healing events if allowed, supported, encouraged and completed. Various drug and non-drug techniques have been employed to this effect.

Mainstream medicine under the hegemony of the medical model and a misplaced christianity-based emotional puritanism has pathologised these natural healing events. Hyperventilation, for example, has many myths associated with it, ranging from nervous breakdown, to dangerous oxygen/carbon dioxide "imbalance", to "psychotic breaks". Typically, doctors will panic when faced with a hyperventilation episode, and may employ sedatives or talk people down.

PTSD is not a problem but is itself a healing and an opportunity, unless one employs mainstream medicine, when this healing response is routinely sedated. Outside of medicine, there are many opportunities for working with this ancient, natural process in a productive, positive way.
 
So, people with debilitating PTSD who do not seek treatment for decades should be fine if they allow their panic attacks and nightmares to play out to the "end"?
 
ehcks said:
I thought PTSD often came from actual damage to the brain?

Not always, but.. where's that article?

http://www.ptsd.va.gov/professional/pages/traumatic-brain-injury-ptsd.asp

At least in those cases, can you call injury an illness or disorder?


Waiiit. This is a terrible thread to argue for. I stand down from my argument but leave it here anyway.
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Flashbacks is a way ofcompleteing an experience that was truncated at the time. They sometimes occur when using lSD in an uncompleted experience.

All animals hyperventilate.
 
You are saying PTSD is a non-exsistant disorder, but that it can be treated naturally if "natural healing responses ... are allowed, supported, encouraged and completed"

So in what way does that make it not a disorder or an illness?
 
Humanzee said:
You are saying PTSD is a non-exsistant disorder, but that it can be treated naturally if "natural healing responses ... are allowed, supported, encouraged and completed"

So in what way does that make it not a disorder or an illness?
Click to expand...


No, it shouldn't be treated. It should, like sleep, like coughing and laughing, be allowed.
 
Jonesboy said:
Mainstream medicine under the hegemony of the medical model and a misplaced christianity-based emotional puritanism has pathologised these natural healing events.
Click to expand...

How about a general time frame here. How long are you claiming that mainstream medicine has been treating PTSD this way? For the last 10 years? 20 years? 75 years? 150 years? Longer?
 
Pup said:
How about a general time frame here. How long are you claiming that mainstream medicine has been treating PTSD this way? For the last 10 years? 20 years? 75 years? 150 years? Longer?
Click to expand...


it started for definite with fReud. Before that, we can find emotional puritanism enedemic in the West, not so much the east. It would be good to do a project on it.
 
Remember, Jonesboy studied with the Godfather of LSD (and it wasn't Hofmann)
 
Jonesboy said:
PTSD or post traumatic stress disorder isn't an illness. It is also not a disorder, as a disorder isn't a scientific fact but a veiled social value.

Researchers such as Stanislav Grof have shown that hyperventilation and flashbacks with intense emotional involvement are powerful, natural healing responses that are extremey healing events if allowed, supported, encouraged and completed. Various drug and non-drug techniques have been employed to this effect.

Mainstream medicine under the hegemony of the medical model and a misplaced christianity-based emotional puritanism has pathologised these natural healing events. Hyperventilation, for example, has many myths associated with it, ranging from nervous breakdown, to dangerous oxygen/carbon dioxide "imbalance", to "psychotic breaks". Typically, doctors will panic when faced with a hyperventilation episode, and may employ sedatives or talk people down.

PTSD is not a problem but is itself a healing and an opportunity, unless one employs mainstream medicine, when this healing response is routinely sedated. Outside of medicine, there are many opportunities for working with this ancient, natural process in a productive, positive way.
Click to expand...

Excuse me, I think most rape victims, most trauma victims and most vetrans and victims of war would beg to differ.

So... I wonder what research base this bizzare idea you have presented has?

And it is not a social value, it is a personal judgement of discomfort that leads peopel to seek treatment for PTSD. So we can examine the basis of your claim and then you can deny the benefits of the scientific method.

Now the fact that there seem to be some narcissistic people who glory in their 'special and privileged status as people who aren't really ill' is fine, they are free to not seek treatment as they choose.

But you have no basis for saying treatment for PTSD is forced upon people ebcause of social mores, people can seek it as they wish. Involuntary hospitalization is based upon threat to self and threat to others.

Unlike like some I have worked in mental health, I never recall anyone being forced into treatment for PTSD.
 
Stanislav Grof :

Oh MY, so you really do hate science because you prefer the comfort of unsupported neo freudian twaddle.

Again some people get off on pretending they are special and that they are persecuted for being special.

If you want to do hallucinogens , go ahead. But they are not shown to be effective in the treatement of PTSD. that area of research is so piss poor it isn't even funny.

I know what PTSD is, and I have lived with it, I also know the serotonergic hallucinogens made my anxiety worse. Panic was never healing for me, nor is it for most of those who live with PTSD.

It is some sort of freudian twaddle that the 'trip' will free you, that is just unsupported mythology.
 
Jonesboy said:
Flashbacks is a way ofcompleteing an experience that was truncated at the time. They sometimes occur when using lSD in an uncompleted experience.

All animals hyperventilate.
Click to expand...

Yup unsubstantiated neo freudian twaddle. So lets see people who don't seek treatment, and that is most of them...

They have symptoms for an extended time period and they don't spontaneously get better. This despite the fact that they often don't seek treatment for three to five years.

Nice fantasy you have there.

Again some people get off on pretending they are special and misunderstood, no one forces people into treatment for having panic attacks.


The medications used to treat PTSD are usually not sedatives, but your knowledge of medicine is probably stuck in some neo freudian infantile phase from the 1960s.
 
Jonesboy said:
No, it shouldn't be treated. It should, like sleep, like coughing and laughing, be allowed.
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And what imaginary police state is forcing people to treat their PTSD? You want to freak out in public? No one is stopping you.

Now I do know there are people who like to pretend that their auditory hallucinations are 'flashbacks' but they are actually psychotic and may or may not have PTSD. And again even psychosis in and of itself does not require the forcing of treatment, so what are you basing your false perceptions upon?

If people choose to not get treatment they live with the consequences, they can be psychotic, they can be homesless, they can live as they choose and many do.

People with diabetes and heart disease refuse to get treatment all the time, mental illness is exactly the same. And in fact most peopel don't seek treatment for mental illness. Treatment is only forced (and not chemical in the US) whne people threaten to kill themselves or others.

So people who are depressed are free to not seek treatment, and they are free to loose their housing if they do not go to work.
 
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ehcks said:
I thought PTSD often came from actual damage to the brain?
Click to expand...

There are lots of people here in Christchurch with PTSD from earthquakes who don't have brain damage.
Seriously, what us Cantabrians have been through in the last year has been compared to living in a warzone. We never know when the next one is going to hit, or how big it is going to be.

By February this year, about 6 months after the first quake, I think most people were thinking everything is settling down and 'normal' will be possible soon.
February 22nd changed all that. 181 people were killed, and we now have an inaccessible CBD with 1/3 of the properties empty, and another 1/3 set for demolition, including a 23 floor building now known as the 'leaning tower of Christchurch' which can be seen from a lot of the city, and it is actually visibly twisted, constantly reminding everyone what has happened in the last year.

To make things worse, everyone thought 'it can't POSSIBLY happen again'.
well on the 13th of June, there was another smaller one (5.6) really close to Christchurch. That was bad enough. Just two hours later though, there was a second bigger one, another 6.3, the same size as February 22nd.

Throw in the occasional prediction by scaremongerers, and your result is a city that is literally going to take decades to recover, and it will NEVER be the same.

PTSD IS an illness, and it is a huge problem here at the moment.
Part of this disaster has been the requirement to move several hundred elderly people out of the city due to now unusable rest homes. 1/3 of them have died since, most probably due to stress.
Just a couple of days ago, there was a suspected murder/suicide involving an elderly couple. I wouldn't be surprised if this is stress related.

Unless you have been through a major ONGOING natural disaster, or other similar event, you literally can NOT know what it is like.:mad:
 
Jonesboy said:
No, it shouldn't be treated. It should, like sleep, like coughing and laughing, be allowed.
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How about heart attacks? They are a perfectly natural response to atherosclerotic disease. Should we let them play out? And how about anaphylactic shock? Just a response to allergens.

The good old "just get over it" treatment for PTSD / Combat Fatigue / Shell Shock... Please.
 
Not to feed the obvious troll, but it was my understanding that PTSD is defined by the patient's non-improvement. In other words, if they're getting better it isn't PTSD.
 
You can't have been around many soldiers if you don't think PTSD is a problem.
 
What has this thread (or any of your other Mythbusters threads) have to do with Mythbusters? I asked last time, but never got an answer.
 
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