Continuation Part 3 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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lionking said:
What don't you buy? I've said many times that I have seen no evidence of the conspiracy of evil Italian authorities so many here consider to be clear as day.
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No,no,no...not evil Italian authorities...STUPID Italian authorities...there’s a difference. What is so hard to believe? This is the country that gave us the mafia...the police operate exactly the same...its clear....What you consider a CT is simply the way the family operates its business.
 
HumanityBlues said:
It's funny that you're so irritated by an argument that, based on your brief reenactment of it, clearly shows you have no idea what the argument is amount. You can just ignore, thanks.
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Sigh, I don't want to ignore you HB, and I'm not really irritated, but am sincerely sorry if I pissed you off.

I think you make a valid point that a conspiracy is not needed for Amanda and Raffaele to be innocent. The back and forth between you and Lionking is just an arguement about semantics and nothing else, and like you said, "no big deal," but it does take up a lot of thread space to get through it and THAT is all I am saying... sorry if I didn't make myself properly clear. My bad,

Dave
 
HumanityBlues said:
Are you purposely this dense? We're not saying you believe in a conspiracy. The point is, you clearly said the innocent position requires a conspiracy by police. You also clearly said that if the court acquits you will accept Amanda and Raffaele as innocent. Thus, by default, if there is an acquittal, by your own principle, you would have to believe in a conspiracy. It's a really simple equation you've inferred on your own.

I don't know if anyone else took what you said to mean that you believed in "such a conspiracy", I surely don't. What I think I clearly inferred was in the event of acquittal, per your own arbitrary rules for yourself you've thrown out in discussion, that yes, you would have to believe in a conspiracy.
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Yes, you are right HunanityBlues.

LionKing, that is the logical train of thougt.

1. I can not believe they are innocent because it would have taken a conspiracy among different groups of professionals to set up.

2. I will accept what the court says.

3. If you accept an innocent verdict you are saying you do believe there was a conspiracy.

Unless....would an innocent verdict convince you it didn't take a conspiracy but still happened?
 
Can someone tell me what happened to the hard-drives from the computer(s) at the boyfriends house?
 
Thanks Spartacus...

spartacus said:
Umbria journal picked up on the critical nature of the stomach contents and time of death. I think this is it.
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For folks who don't read Italian or don't feel like Google translating:
27/09/2011 18:27 hours (UJ.com) PERUGIA - For the defense of Raffaele Sollecito, the time of the death of Meredith and 'placeable between 21 and 21.30 and not just after 23:30 as deemed by the courts of first instance. That exclude the young from the list of possible killers of Puglia. It explained why the court the lawyer Luca Maori, Sollecito's defense, in his defense speech. The first reason stems from the fact that "the last meal of the poor Meredith 'took place at 18, her friends are telling us" and "autopsy and' full stomach was found with 500 cubic centimeters of food, then death can 'back up to 21 21.30.

It 'a basic commitment of a medical office, "said Maori. Other factors that argue in favor of that hour" traffic flow from the telephone. "But most importantly, the lawyer," says the person who was there': chat Rudy. "The lawyer made in court to hear the conversation in which the Ivorian definitively sentenced to 16 years for the murder of Meredith, from Germany during the conversation with his friend Giacomo Benedetti, answering the question of when nell'assassino was undefeated, said: "21:15 to 21:20." "Well? concluded Maori - the consultant showed us how to 21.15 pc Raffaele Sollecito were in operation so it could be in Via della Pergola. "

Moreover, Raffaele Sollecito and Amanda Knox''bionic eye came in the room of Meredith Kercher, and they clean all their footsteps, even invisible, in a place that exudes traces instead of Rudy Guede''- said the ' lawyer Luca Maori. According to the law''to clean the room is not 'possible''. The lawyer went on to recall that the Maori Knox and Sollecito had met at a concert of classical music. Raffaele''frequented the house in Via della Pergola: November 1 Raffaele was there 'and there, and' remained all afternoon, she cooked and turned for home, using cutlery and more.'' ''We hope that Amanda and Raffaele are found not guilty.''
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HumanityBlues said:
Frank has a new blog up: http://perugiashock.com/2011/09/27/luca-maori-“the-police-are-nice-only-some-cops-are-criminals”/

39,952 wiretapped calls......but remember, they couldn't record the interrogation because of..... ya know......budget cuts.
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Thank you HB,

Unfreakin' believable, well maybe not that unbelievable:

"So Hellmann today said 'guess what, dear prosecutors, we noticed that you sneaked the sentence in anyway, but we are going to trash it…'"
 
HumanityBlues said:
The point is, you clearly said the innocent position requires a conspiracy by police.
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I didn't say that at all. I was talking about the position many of the innocentisti took, that is, a that conspiracy was required for her to be found guilty. I mean, you think she was fitted up don't you? Does this not require a conspiracy?

I don't think she was fitted up.

Oh, and your posts are getting quite uncivil.
 
lionking said:
I didn't say that at all. I was talking about the position many of the innocentisti took, that is, a that conspiracy was required. I mean, you think she was fitted up don't you? Does this not require a conspiracy?

I don't think she was fitted up.

Oh, and your posts are getting quite uncivil.
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I attacked your arguments and your words. I have never said they were "fitted up". I've always said that the police think Amanda and Raffaele are guilty. I've never said she was framed or anything of the sort. I've made no secret of that on this forum.

If you think my posts are uncivil, feel free to point out where. I have every right on this forum to attack your ideas and call them nonsensical and silly per the forum rules. You have that right as well, even if you are wrong.
 
HumanityBlues said:
Frank has a new blog up: http://perugiashock.com/2011/09/27/luca-maori-“the-police-are-nice-only-some-cops-are-criminals”/

39,952 wiretapped calls......but remember, they couldn't record the interrogation because of..... ya know......budget cuts.
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Yes they spent all the money on the 15 officers and Edgardo Giobbi and the tea party.

from the perugia shock link...

Raffaele’s lawyers asked the acquittal and reported for slander Rudi Guede (who risks now a minimum of six more years), Kokomani, the one who said to have seen Raffaele, Rudi and Amanda-with-knife outside the cottage, and Giuffredi, who said to have seen the double couple outside the cottage: Amanda and Raffaele, Meredith and Rudi.
He can thank Mignini, who convinced him to testify…Perugia Shock

interesting little comment, I hadnt heard this through tweetville or the media.

maybe some "Perjury in Perugia"?
 
lionking said:
What don't you buy? I've said many times that I have seen no evidence of the conspiracy of evil Italian authorities so many here consider to be clear as day.
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Hi LionKing,
I have a few friends who surf that happen to work in law enforcement, they do a good job in a tough environment. I've read that you too were in law enforcement, so I've noted your doubtful conspiracy posts.

With that said, I am interested in your opinion of something that previously happened in Italy that Frank Sfarzo reported the other day. I was unaware of this case, it was suprising to read of it.

I am posting it again, since with so much going on, I figured that you might not have even seen it.

I had hoped for a sincere reply from you, just because I was very suprised to read of so many police officers getting arrested in this particular case. Thoughts?
RW


A Conspiracy of 48 Cops

For the Genoa G8 affair a bunch of cops entered the school where the protesters were staying, and found (reminds you something?) some molotov bottles…

When it became clear those molotovs couldn’t have been in that school the prosecutor certainly wans’t afraid of a couple of cops, and accused them of having planted that evidence and produced false statements. This time other cops came in help of the accused cops, up to the chief of the police.
Not a problem for the prosecutors who managed to condemn all of them. In the appellate trial 48 cops were convicted: the low ranks who planted the evidence and the superiors who didn’t arrest them, chief of the police included.
So, we are not talking a single one this time, but the variety of cops, the naturalness with which they were making crimes, falsifying evidence and statements, lying in court, shows that such behavior is not an exception at all.

‘They think they are covered by immunity’, Genoa judges explained. In truth they can be covered by immunity, in case of a dishonest chief, or prosecutor, or judge, who act as their accomplices. But then another court comes, Italian or European, and it may even happen that it sends all of them to jail without any problem….
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I hope to read your opinion on this LionKing.
Take it easy, :)
RW
 
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HumanityBlues said:
I have never said they were "fitted up". I've always said that the police think Amanda and Raffaele are guilty. I've never said she was framed or anything of the sort. I've made no secret of that on this forum.
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Okay I accept that and withdraw my suggestion that you said that they were framed. But you cannot seriously deny that many others on this thread do indeed believe they were framed. This would, in my opinion, require a conspiracy. A conspiracy I have seen no evidence of.
 
JREF2010 said:
Yes they spent all the money on the 15 officers and Edgardo Giobbi and the tea party.

from the perugia shock link...

Raffaele’s lawyers asked the acquittal and reported for slander Rudi Guede (who risks now a minimum of six more years), Kokomani, the one who said to have seen Raffaele, Rudi and Amanda-with-knife outside the cottage, and Giuffredi, who said to have seen the double couple outside the cottage: Amanda and Raffaele, Meredith and Rudi.
He can thank Mignini, who convinced him to testify…Perugia Shock

interesting little comment, I hadnt heard this through tweetville or the media.

maybe some "Perjury in Perugia"?
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I have a feeling the new motivations document is going to be a lot more interesting than Massei's.
 
RWVBWL said:
Hi LionKing,
I have a few friends who surf that happen to work in law enforcement, they do a good job in a tough environment. I've read that you too were in law enforcement, so I've noted your doubtful conspiracy posts.

With that said, I am interested in your opinion of something that previously happened in Italy that Frank Sfarzo repored the other day. I was unaware of this case, it was suprising to read of it.

I am posting it again, since with so much going on, I figured that you might not have even seen it.

I had hoped for a sincere reply from you, just because I was very suprised to read of so many police officers getting arrested in this particular case. Thoughts?
RW

I hope to read your opinion on this LionKing.
Take it easy, :)
RW
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Where have I ever said that conspiracies haven't occurred. I simply have seen no evidence of one here. No whistleblower? After all this time? In such a high profile case?

Now, can I ask you, do you believe that AK and RS were fitted up by the police?
 
lionking said:
Where have I ever said that conspiracies haven't occurred. I simply have seen no evidence of one here. No whistleblower? After all this time? In such a high profile case?

Now, can I ask you, do you believe that AK and RS were fitted up by the police?
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Supposedly there was a whistleblower from the crimelab in Rome who wrote an anonymous letter about how bad the crime scene procedures were at the lab. Just sayin'.
 
lionking said:
Where have I ever said that conspiracies haven't occurred. I simply have seen no evidence of one here. No whistleblower? After all this time? In such a high profile case?

Now, can I ask you, do you believe that AK and RS were fitted up by the police?
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Hi lion
My opinion of this whole mess is this: The police jumped the gun, the prosecutor ran with the info he had and then grossly embellished the story. Stephony used confirmation bias and lies to protect everyone. And the forensic investigation did an absolutely horrible job. Conspiracy or not they all refused to admit their errors and prosecuted AK and RS. Massei was totally fooled by the lies anddecepton and his motivation report showed how out of touch he was with reality. I also believe that RG was a police informant, who the police wanted to protect. These are just my opinions.
 
lionking said:
Okay I accept that and withdraw my suggestion that you said that they were framed. But you cannot seriously deny that many others on this thread do indeed believe they were framed. This would, in my opinion, require a conspiracy. A conspiracy I have seen no evidence of.
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Haha. Well being that Randy just did that a page ago, I can't well deny it, no.:blush:
 
Curatolo was also on the police payroll, either directly or through allowing his drug dealing.
 
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