General Great British Politics Thread!

Undesired Walrus said:
What do you regard as neo-liberal?
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The belief in the primacy of the markets - ie that the markets know best

The belief that the private sector can run everything better than the state

The belief in small government and low taxes

The belief in trickle down economics

That'll do for starters............:)
 
Skepticemea said:
Hospital cuts all nursing staff wages by £600 back by threats of job losses = Labour reaction of "wuh?"

You're correct, Labour should be all over this rubbish but the facts of the matter as invented by me are; they have so little credibility in the bank after presiding over the most poorly prepared for bust in British history that they all they can do when the poor and vunerable are savaged by the feckless jackels-in-office that have the temerity to call themselves a government is cringe and whimper like the beaten, toothless, neutered dogs that they are.

*breathe*
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That's their own fault for allowing the Tories to get that meme started, when they are accused of in the past "spend, spend, spend" they should say - "Yeah we did, that's why your mother got her new hip in 18 weeks rather than the 18 months she would have had to wait in increasing agony under the Tories. Yeah we spent so kids can have a text book each and not have to be sent home during the winter because the heating system in their school has failed."

They should be reminding folk of what life under the Tories was like and will be like and why they had to spend. Just ignore the crap about the banks, that was out of the control of any one country, say "yeah we have to get the deficit down but not at the cost of hip replacement surgery having a 2 year waiting list" and not at the cost of again allowing another generation to be wasted as the Tories did in the 80s.
 
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andyandy said:
The belief in the primacy of the markets - ie that the markets know best

The belief that the private sector can run everything better than the state

The belief in small government and low taxes

The belief in trickle down economics

That'll do for starters............:)
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I would alter that for one of them and that would be the taxes and government one to be something more like "The belief that small and government & low taxes is a virtue of itself". I'm all for small government - if it works, and I'm all for low taxes, if appropriate, I don't think there are many folk who think taxes should be higher for their own sake!
 
You are absolutely correct. I recently received a letter from Glenda Jackson, the MP for my area, about a query I had. Perhaps I should write something along these lines. I'm under no illusions about my ability to influence the shadow cabinet but many of us appear to be waiting for these people to say something in rebuttal against the slash and burn policies of this coalition.

Perhaps some prompting is required.
 
It's just a suspicion but I've been wondering whether Labour have been so conspicuously quiet about the Condem policies because they thought that discontent among ordinary people would be more evident.
 
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Darat said:
I would alter that for one of them and that would be the taxes and government one to be something more like "The belief that small and government & low taxes is a virtue of itself". I'm all for small government - if it works, and I'm all for low taxes, if appropriate, I don't think there are many folk who think taxes should be higher for their own sake!
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good point :)
 
andyandy said:
The belief in the primacy of the markets - ie that the markets know best

The belief that the private sector can run everything better than the state

The belief in small government and low taxes

The belief in trickle down economics

That'll do for starters............:)
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The idea that 'small government' could apply to the Labour party of 97-10 is laughable. Brown's extreme Keynesianism during the financial crash, his belief in deficits as necessary in a time of an extreme financial crisis and the 50% top rate of tax should have further disabused anyone that Labour was primarily 'neo-liberal'.

Even during Blair's day, this was the same party who tried to introduce ID Cards, introduced the DNA database, implemented the minimum wage, child tax credits, the winter fuel allowance, paternity leave and increased maternity leave, the Windfall Tax on privatised utilities (raising £5 Billion for the New Deal) and withdrew government funding for private schools. The top rate of income tax remained the same until it was increased, as discussed above.

Of course, there were foundation hospitals, acadamies and so on, which were all arguably 'neo-liberal'. However, the idea that Labour 97-10 was a neo-liberal government is palpably untrue.
 
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Undesired Walrus said:
The idea that 'small government' could apply to the Labour party of 97-10 is laughable. Brown's extreme Keynesianism during the financial crash, his belief in deficits as necessary in a time of an extreme financial crisis and the 50% top rate of tax should have further disabused anyone that Labour was primarily 'neo-liberal'.

Even during Blair's day, this was the same party who tried to introduce ID Cards, introduced the DNA database, implemented the minimum wage, child tax credits, the winter fuel allowance, paternity leave and increased maternity leave, the Windfall Tax on privatised utilities (raising £5 Billion for the New Deal) and withdrew government funding for private schools. The top rate of income tax remained the same until it was increased, as discussed above.

Of course, there were foundation hospitals, acadamies and so on, which were all arguably 'neo-liberal'. However, the idea that Labour 97-10 was a neo-liberal government is palpably untrue.
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labour absolutely bought into large chunks of neo-liberal ideology - certainly not as much as the Tories - but nevertheless the only way to view the progression of British politics over the last 30 years is through the prism of neo-liberalism - Labour were a continuum on that trend - and the Tories are continuing it yet further. Labour were a neo-liberal party with respects to belief in the markets, belief in privatisation, use of PFI, failure to regulate the financial sector etc etc. I agree that they were not a small government party - but then i never claimed they were - you just jumped in as though i had. I said that Milliband should have reversed the neo-liberal tide on the transfer of responsibility for university fees from state to individuals. This is absolutely a neo-liberal position and one which once again labour is on the wrong side of.

Labour are neo-liberal lite, and because of their betrayal of the left, they've allowed the Tories to go full steam ahead on their dismantling of the state. Labour are a very significant part of the problem here - sad but true.
 
You know, I could have written any one of these posts just by substituting "Democrat" for "Labor".

"The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity."

Yeats
 
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commandlinegamer said:
It's just a suspicion but I've been wondering whether Labour have been so conspicuously quiet about the Condem policies because they thought that discontent among ordinary people would be more evident.
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More like the Labour party waiting for the electorate to tell them where they want to be led.
 
Undesired Walrus said:
Brown's extreme Keynesianism
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Brown is emphatically NOT Keynesian. You cannot describe someone who borrowed record amounts during an economic boom as a Keynesian.

And I see Ed Balls going to deal with the debt by cutting taxes (VAT & NI) and increasing spending. That's bound to work.
 
geni said:
The degree of growth needed is at best unlikely.
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Not an attack, but are you able to quantify that as I don't understand what you mean? What degree of growth do you think is needed and what need would it be addressing?
 
Skepticemea said:
Not an attack, but are you able to quantify that as I don't understand what you mean? What degree of growth do you think is needed and what need would it be addressing?
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The current conservative and pre election labour plans were for getting rid of the structural deficit. That is to say they took reasonable (okay slightly optimistic in hindsight) levels of growth into account. As a result anything that increases the deficit while expecting growth to fill the gap is assuming an unlikely level of growth.
 
Skepticemea said:
You are absolutely correct. I recently received a letter from Glenda Jackson, the MP for my area, about a query I had. Perhaps I should write something along these lines. I'm under no illusions about my ability to influence the shadow cabinet but many of us appear to be waiting for these people to say something in rebuttal against the slash and burn policies of this coalition.

Perhaps some prompting is required.
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Out of interest, which part of Glenda Jackson's constituency is less than a mile from Tottenham?
 
geni said:
The current conservative and pre election labour plans were for getting rid of the structural deficit. That is to say they took reasonable (okay slightly optimistic in hindsight) levels of growth into account. As a result anything that increases the deficit while expecting growth to fill the gap is assuming an unlikely level of growth.
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Got any sources for that? I'm not calling you a liar, I just need some independent verification, preferably one that discloses its funders (thanks Monbiot for bringing that to our attention). It's difficult to believe that you've managed to perform the calculations neccessary to predict economic growth in a country with tens of thousands of businesses and probably just as many laws, subject to various external sometimes unpredictable stimuli, in your own head.
 
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