"Spent," a Social Issues game

[RandFan]

I lasted the month with $401 at the end of the month (but insufficient to pay my $800 rent). I had to be a complete jerk throughout - didn't take my dog to the vet, didn't buy my mom meds, put plastic on windows.

However I will suggest that perhaps the game is set up such that you cannot 'win'.

And while life may at times appear that way, I don't believe that life is unwinnable.

People often find ways of making by beg, borrowing or stealing. The problem is that the stress tends to take its toll after awhile. I've been there in real life and it sucks.

 

[Antiquehunter]

People often find ways of making by beg, borrowing or stealing. The problem is that the stress tends to take its toll after awhile. I've been there in real life and it sucks.

Oh sure - my parents went through a bankruptcy when I was 15, and I actually dropped out of highschool for a year to help in their business. So I understand what its like to be down & out.

But I find it offensive to suggest that the deck is stacked against people such that they CAN'T get ahead. Its not EASY, and it is a tough row to hoe for sure - but it CAN be done.

Unlike that game.

 

[Dessi]

Can somebody work it backwards to see how long ago the single parent would have actually gone bankrupt and onto welfare?

People go on welfare long before they go bankrupt.

That's one of the hideous things about it. A lot of people depend on welfare as a source of income, include it in their budget, and when they suddenly make $1 too much, they're kicked off welfare, Medicaid, WIC, food stamps, and they're drastically over budget again. I've seen this happen over and over and over again with my friends and family.

Instead of tapering welfare off, (e.g., you make $50 too much, so you get $50 less assistance), its all or nothing, you're either entitled to it or you're not. So many times, I've heard my friends in crisis because they made too much to qualify for welfare, they have to figure out how inflate their expenses, or hide sources of income.

I knew one person who was on welfare for most of her life. One day she received a letter from the state with a message that she'd been overpaid benefits for several years, she owed the state $22,000 to be paid in 30 days. She was transgender, and all of her life savings was intended to finance her transition. I don't know how she handled the debt.

The way poverty works, and how people work around it is absolutely scary.

 

[Dessi]

I agree with this. Some of the things I noticed:

Health insurance premiums being about double what I've noticed them at for jobs I've worked at.

I thought it was bad because most temp, restaurant, and retail jobs don't even provide health insurance.

My brother-in-law's insurance through his work would have been $425/mo for him, my sister, and their single child, and the coverage was crappy. They found and purchased a much better $400 private insurance instead -- but they had to shop around, their first quote was around $575 because they are smokers and they revealed their son has a benign heart murmur and duplex kidney, neither of which cause health issues.

Rent being double or even triple what's available here in Albuquerque.

Depends on where you live. In Omaha, NE, $600/mo will get you a decent two-bedroom apartment, or a really nice single-bedroom.

The system randomly dumping your hours to 20 a week and then you not getting another job. Seriously? You're struggling and you're just going to keep with the 20 hours a week job and not TRY and find something else?

I can believe this. I've had lots of friends lose hours at their job, they put in job applications all over and never get a single call back for months.

Landlord (illegally) not fixing problems.

Why is this unbelievable? Go to any apartment review site and read comments, tons of people have had this experience.

My sister lived in an apartment complex where water leaked from the roof, the carpet was constantly soggy, ceiling discolored, constant smell of mildew, the landlord never fixed it for 4 months, which was a large factor in them moving out -- predictably, due to "unreported damage", they did not get their deposit back.

Starting off with $219/month credit card bills (Really?)

Yes, really. This kind of thing happens all the time.

In 2007, my car finally gave out and forced me to buy a new one. About a year later, I was unemployed. Still paying rent, car payments, tuition, and food -- and I could only afford three. I decided to move out of my apartment and live my sister for a while, at least until I got back on my feet.

Two months later, when I got my next programming job, I had $200 left in my checking and savings and $600 charged to my credit card.

$250 dollar speeding ticket.

Why is this unbelievable?

Seriously, this thing just throws random things at you that are mostly crap.

No they aren't. Everyone has times in their lives when one thing after another after another happens.

Cars break down, kids and pets get sick, unexpected dental appointment, accident at work requiring hospital visit, randomly lose hours at work, unplanned parenthood, unplanned divorce, child support and alimony forfeitures, speeding tickets, late fees when missing a bill. These are realities for almost everyone, and it really hits home when you have no financial cushion to cover the costs.

Its a lot easier to deal with when your single and you don't need a car to get around. Much much harder when you're a single parent. When any little thing comes up to break your budget, its a crisis.

 

[RandFan]

Oh sure - my parents went through a bankruptcy when I was 15, and I actually dropped out of highschool for a year to help in their business. So I understand what its like to be down & out.

But I find it offensive to suggest that the deck is stacked against people such that they CAN'T get ahead. Its not EASY, and it is a tough row to hoe for sure - but it CAN be done.

Unlike that game.

Yes it's possible. It's possible to win the lottery. The poor are getting poorer and it's getting harder and harder to make ends meet. There is nothing offensive about that it's just facts of life.

 

[Antiquehunter]

@RandFan - I'm not trying to be flippant or glib about any of this, I hope you aren't interpreting my comments as such. My point is that the game 'Spend' appears to be slanted such that it can't be won. I am not willing to believe that this model is representative of reality. My personal experience dictates that the 'game' CAN be won. (Without winning the lottery. Or being left a bundle by your Great Aunt Tootie.)

Defeatist sorts of 'games' like this one, in my opinion, degrade and devalue the harsh reality of what it is like to be struggling to make ends meet. If reality were like this game, why would anyone bother to try at all?

 

[RandFan]

@RandFan - I'm not trying to be flippant or glib about any of this, I hope you aren't interpreting my comments as such. My point is that the game 'Spend' appears to be slanted such that it can't be won. I am not willing to believe that this model is representative of reality. My personal experience dictates that the 'game' CAN be won. (Without winning the lottery. Or being left a bundle by your Great Aunt Tootie.)

I don't really care about the game. I only care about realities.

Defeatist sorts of 'games' like this one, in my opinion, degrade and devalue the harsh reality of what it is like to be struggling to make ends meet. If reality were like this game, why would anyone bother to try at all?

Ever hear of the third world? Ever see starving people in Somalia fighting to survive? Ever read about Americans during the Great Depression? It's what we do. It's the hallmark of human nature.

Bottom line, corporations are making record profits and the wealthy have more money than ever in history and all we can say to poor people is "it's possible". Look, I know what you mean, I was conservative for the first 47 of my 50 years. I get the "American Dream" meme as I propagated it here on this forum for 7 years.

 

[Newtons Bit]

I thought it was bad because most temp, restaurant, and retail jobs don't even provide health insurance.

My brother-in-law's insurance through his work would have been $425/mo for him, my sister, and their single child, and the coverage was crappy. They found and purchased a much better $400 private insurance instead -- but they had to shop around, their first quote was around $575 because they are smokers and they revealed their son has a benign heart murmur and duplex kidney, neither of which cause health issues.

Which sucks, I know this can vary from state to to state.

Depends on where you live. In Omaha, NE, $600/mo will get you a decent two-bedroom apartment, or a really nice single-bedroom.

And if your budget is tiny, would you go for a decent or really nice apartment or would you try and save a couple hundred dollars and go cheaper or, barring that, find a respectable roommate?

I can believe this. I've had lots of friends lose hours at their job, they put in job applications all over and never get a single call back for months.

But they TRIED, didn't they?

Why is this unbelievable? Go to any apartment review site and read comments, tons of people have had this experience.

My sister lived in an apartment complex where water leaked from the roof, the carpet was constantly soggy, ceiling discolored, constant smell of mildew, the landlord never fixed it for 4 months, which was a large factor in them moving out -- predictably, due to "unreported damage", they did not get their deposit back.

Unbelievable? No. Unlikely combination with everything else? yes.

Your sister should have filed a complaint with the city, or threatened to do so at the apartment office. The problem would have been fixed.

Yes, really. This kind of thing happens all the time.

The "game" just randomly pops it up midway, leaving you unable to plan for it. The "game" said the person was using the credit card to pay the mortgage for a number of months (before finding a job), and netting no money off the sale of the house. This is moderately unbelievable.

In 2007, my car finally gave out and forced me to buy a new one. About a year later, I was unemployed. Still paying rent, car payments, tuition, and food -- and I could only afford three. I decided to move out of my apartment and live my sister for a while, at least until I got back on my feet.

Two months later, when I got my next programming job, I had $200 left in my checking and savings and $600 charged to my credit card.

And you had the option of giving up your car. One really doesn't in this.

Why is this unbelievable?

Maybe I'm out of touch with speeding tickets in other states, but around here you have to be speeding through a school zone while it's under construction to get a $250 ticket. A few years ago you could do the above while drunk and it'd only be a few bucks more.

No they aren't. Everyone has times in their lives when one thing after another after another happens.

Cars break down, kids and pets get sick, unexpected dental appointment, accident at work requiring hospital visit, randomly lose hours at work, unplanned parenthood, unplanned divorce, child support and alimony forfeitures, speeding tickets, late fees when missing a bill. These are realities for almost everyone, and it really hits home when you have no financial cushion to cover the costs.

Its a lot easier to deal with when your single and you don't need a car to get around. Much much harder when you're a single parent. When any little thing comes up to break your budget, its a crisis.

All of those things in a WEEK? The whole purpose of this thing is to trick the better off into believing that it would be absolutely impossible to live off $9/hour. It's not. Yes, it can be difficult at times. But the creators of this had to start the game off by cutting $9/hr to effectively $4.50/hr while throwing an almost statistically impossible string of bad events to prove their point. Which I suppose it's really living on $4.50/hr while having bad luck is impossible. I suppose that's true. The rest of it is transparently deceptive.

 

[marplots]

$9 an hour? I've made it the last ten years on $8. Do I win?

 

[Ysidro]

My last landlord didn't fix anything. I don't expect to get the deposit back. I expect her to claim I damaged the property.

I once got a speeding ticket that was under $100. With various fees tacked on to it I paid over $150.

These things happen. Yes, the game throws a lot of crap at you in an attempt to guilt you into giving them money. But that doesn't mean that these sorts of things don't happen. To everyone, every month? No. But often enough to matter.

 

[cwalner]

I've lived this life for most of my life. The game is actually quite close to what I've had to do for decades. I have no credit, no health insurance, have a 21 year old car with minimum insurance on it that someone else is paying for me at a group rate, buy all my clothes at thrift shops...that game is my life, whether you think it's frivolous or not.

The issue I had was the quantity of stuff that hit in just one month. I was living paycheck to paycheck and had many of the items happen to me, over the course of a few years, not one month.

The pacing of the bad **** is what makes the game unrealistic.

 

[Antiquehunter]

I don't really care about the game. I only care about realities.


Ever hear of the third world? Ever see starving people in Somalia fighting to survive? Ever read about Americans during the Great Depression? It's what we do. It's the hallmark of human nature.

Bottom line, corporations are making record profits and the wealthy have more money than ever in history and all we can say to poor people is "it's possible". Look, I know what you mean, I was conservative for the first 47 of my 50 years. I get the "American Dream" meme as I propagated it here on this forum for 7 years.

Well that you're choosing to make this a conservative vs liberal issue is entirely of your own making. You've seen me post for 6 of those 7 years. And you know perfectly well that I have lived and worked among the '3rd world' for 10 years (East Timor, Afghanistan, Zambia, Nigeria)

 

[Skepticemea]

Jeebers! The game is there to illustrate a point, which is that it's tough out there. Having played the game a couple of times it appears that most months are particularly bad, but then good months under those circumstances are few and far between.

 

[Drachasor]

I have to agree the game is too extreme. There are lots of ways to save money and earning a little more money isn't impossible either.

I am NOT saying things aren't really difficult for a significant fraction of the population. However, this game doesn't demonstrate that well by exaggerating everything. If they had been more realistic and had little meters about health, child care, etc, etc, they would have made a better point. Surviving is very far from impossible, but thriving in that environment is. They should have emphasize the latter and how such an existence is pretty bad on a number of objective levels. The game could end with life expectancy, health, estimation of your child's future, etc -- and even shown how short all that fell of your potentials.

As it is, it isn't very interesting or informative.

 

[casebro]

At least in the pre-computer age, games were played with the roll of the dice or the spin of the wheel. Your chances were displayed. Every gambler knew the odds of getting four of a kind. Not so with mega digits open to bias.

 

[NoahFence]

14 Days....

DOH!

 

[NoahFence]

Seriously, this thing just throws random things at you that are mostly crap.

Isn't that the point? So does life!

 

[whatthebutlersaw]

Crikey - Remind me not to refer you guys to "Sustenance Nomad 2000". You'll probably complain that the rape scenes on the water fetching route are unrealistic.

The game is an illustration and even if most people don't have all that **** happen in a single month it actually so happens that sometimes, some people do.

As for landlords doing illegal stuff and not fixing things? Seriously? Who does NOT know that **** happens all the time to people who the landlords deem incapable of affording legal representation? I don't know about US, but in the UK the landlords kept shafting people on the deposits to such a degree that it was regulated through deposits being held by third party (who takes their cut) and burden of proof being moved to landlord. Every landlord I've had since moving here has tried that one on. It's just that I'm one of those pains-in-the-butt who basically have my local citizen's advice on speed dial. I'm not poor by any of the standards in the game and don't have to live paycheck to paycheck - nonetheless my landlord has kept me living with black mould for two years and one of the two bathrooms un-functional since February. Even with a decent income and some savings, moving house is a matter of having some £2000 lying around doing nothing - particularly if you default a six month lease. And when I first started out here - with no savings and a list of references with a total of zero names, I had to live in some quite frankly incredibly ****** apartments. I can afford to rent a place with gas central heating. If I couldn't - I'd be stuck with space heaters. Maybe on prepaid electricity which is almost 10 times the price of having a contract. Doesn't even have to be my credit score. Here you can "inherit" the bad rap of whoever had that flat before you. If you give your landlord a hard time over all the **** he won't do and all the illegal **** he WILL do - hey, lookit you: no references when you try to get a nicer flat! Does your current, ****, flat cost less than a better one? No, but this landlord is willing to gamble on you. The better landlord is not.

And some of the stuff isn't exactly that incredible. Your kid needing money for trips outings and gear for band, sports etc isn't that incredible (hint: until fully formed, humans outgrow old gear at an incredible speed. If you opt for band we're talking hundreds of dollars in one go - unless they play the recorder or triangle - but at least they rarely outgrow a glockenspiel.) (Okey, I just wanted to use the word "glockenspiel".)

There are ways that poverty will screw you. It IS scary to think the deck may be stacked against the poor but it is.

I started out with a crap job that barely covered rent. The fact that I'm no longer there is not proof that anyone can do it and it also doesn't mean I'm extra speshul. It's proof that I
A: Did not have kids - because the country I grew up in taught safe sex and provided sexual health surgeries for teenagers instead of abstinence. Had I been so unlucky I would have had immediate and safe access to termination services if that was my choosing.
B: Have a good basic education - because the country I grew up in provided free education to a high standard until I was 19 and then tuition free education to a high standard.
C: I have a personal network - when I run **** out of luck my mother is able to lend me money. She can't afford to gift it but she can go without it for long enough for me to pay it back in increments that won't break me. Haven't had to yet but I always know I'm not screwed if I get screwed.

Not everyone has a network. Their family may be as poorly off as themselves. They may not be in touch with family - for good reasons. They may BE the family member who in a perfect world should be the one to be able to lend the others a hand. It must be horrible to be a parent of grown up kids and know that you can't be their safety net.

D: I wasn't yet broken by years and years of poor nutrition and reactive depression to my crappy situation.

When it comes to poverty you can very much paraphrase Anna Karenina: "Every financially secure family is financially secure in the same way. The dirt poor each have their own story." You have to walk a mile in every single freakin' moccasin before you can say with authority that this particular situation was avoidable and can be reversed.

I find it weird with this, almost, aggression towards this game. Like what they are trying to depict is an affront somehow.

Here, have something else to fume about. I hear high blood pressure isn't as dangerous as previously belived.

And anyway - y'all can afford health insurance, amiright?

 

[Ferguson]

Maybe I'm out of touch with speeding tickets in other states, but around here you have to be speeding through a school zone while it's under construction to get a $250 ticket. A few years ago you could do the above while drunk and it'd only be a few bucks more.

In East Lansing I got a 30 in a 25 that cost me $140, and a 50 in a 35 cost me $200.
An acquaintance of mine got a DUI (according to her she was pulled over for a taillight out, she thought she was sober, passed the roadside test, didn't object to the breathalyzer and blew a .10). Cost her about $4000, aside from jail, probation, and social consequences...

I'm in favor of strict laws on DUI's though. Just saying, one mistake (even 5 over speeding) can easily snowball into not enough rent, no car, lost job, etc.

 

[Aepervius]

It has wrong premise IMHO. For example it suddenly says you "you have a negative balance of 7300$" so it isn't your average person with low income, it is only the situation with somebody with a history of debt.

*NOT* the same thing. Otherwise i could have continued balancing.

ETA: and also a big WTF is bank charging you if you have below 50$. here around you get charged for overdraft ONLY if you are below zero... What the heck is that ?